Roman Catholic "Church" not Christian!

[bergeron]

Alert!!!!

The Roman Catholic "Church" is Not Christian
Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For Catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares.

For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic religion, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the Catholic religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The Catholic Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisioned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)

Before we get to specific problems with Catholic doctrine, let's review how this bloodthirsty organization treated a man who simply wanted to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. In the late 1300s John Wycilf translated the scriptures from the Latin Vulgate. Some 40 odd years after his death, the Catholic religion dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick. In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the Catholic religon so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536. It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the Catholic religion had its way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope. Time fails me here to tell of other marytrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish persons.

I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.


* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.
1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).

Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.

Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.

1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name

John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.

Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).

One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.

NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.

Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?

The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.


* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....

1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

* * * *
There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic religion. There are also many other doctrines of the catholic religion which could have been refuted (e.g. the sacraments, receiving the Holy Ghost, salvation through the catholic religion, penance, rosary, etc.).

* * * *
The Catholic religion has a history of taking the money of poor widows in order to say masses for the dead (which do no good) and collecting the material possessions of nuns. In Italy, the heart of Roman Catholicism, there is an often used saying that goes, "Without money, they don't sing the mass." That is really pitiful on several fronts--1) mass is blasphemous and people who trust in it are hell-bound 2) there's no such thing as purgatory and 3) the gift of God is without price.

Roman Catholicism today is probably the wealthiest government in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has healthy real estate interests. The bottom line is, if you want to get right with God, you have to go through His Son, Jesus Christ, not some religious organization. Prayerfully, Tracy.

[Inquisitor]

Indeed catolicism is a heresy. Orthodox Christianity has clearly difinied it as such for hundreds of years. Hence the term - latin heresy.

Catolic church choose to be of this world, and become materialistic as the result.

As to pope, god be his judge. Clearly for visiting a sinagogue he will burn in hell forever.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by bergeron, The Roman Catholic "Church" is Not Christian Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly.

You neither know all the Christians, nor Catholics within.
You need a vacation.

[orgaelin]

Orthodox Christianity has clearly difinied it as such for hundreds of years.

What on earth is Orthodox Christianity?!

[m5lange1]

Once again "they who do not beleiveth like me sucketh", comes up like yesterday's spoiled meat..

Protestantism has no dark history..... oh no. They have always been pure and harmless. No one has ever been burned or abused or persecuted by true Christians like.... protestants.

What was that about not casting stones.....????


Ohhhh yes... that is always for the OTHER guys....

[voyager]

who says the Bible is "True"? It is full of mutually exclusive opposits. Such as "Thou shalt not kill" and "the price of a life is a life" or "an eye for an eye". Any one who thinks the Bible is an actual historical account of man is mistaken.

Catholic bashing is just as bad as gay bashing or Jew bashing, or (supply your favorite ethnic group).

Just remember "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".

[castille]

Catholics, Protestants, Reformists. They've all murdered and killed. The Protestants massacred Catholics (just ask the English), and the Reformists were the ones who started the whole witch-burning craze.

[Inquisitor]

What on earth is Orthodox Christianity?!

"The Orthodox Church was founded by our Lord Jesus Christ and is the living manifestation of His presence in the history of the mankind. The most conspicuous characteristics of Orthodoxy are its rich liturgical life and its faithfulness to the apostolic tradition. It is believed by Orthodox Christians that their Church has preserved the tradition and continuity ofthe ancient Church in its fullness compared to other Christian denominations which have departed from the common tradition of the Church of the first 10 centuries."

"The Orthodox Church is a family of "autocephalous" (self governing) churches, with the Ecumenical (= universal) Patriarch of Constantinople holding titular or honorary primacy as primus inter pares (the first among equals). The Orthodox Church is not a centralised organization headed by a pontiff. The unity of the Church is rather manifested in common faith and communion in the sacraments and no one but Christ himself is the real head of the Church. The number of autocephalous churches has varied in history. Today there are many: the Church of Constantinople (Istanbul), the Church of Alexandria (Egypt), the Church of Antioch (with headquarters in Damascus, Syria), and the Churches of Jerusalem, Russia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, Cyprus, Greece, Poland, Albania and America"

"In the wider theological sense "Orthodoxy is not merely a type of purely earthly organization which is headed by patriarchs, bishops and priests who hold the ministry in the Church which officially is called "Orthodox." Orthodoxy is the mystical "Body of Christ," the Head of which is Christ Himself (see Eph. 1:22-23 and Col. 1:18, 24 et seq.), and its composition includes not only priests but all who truly believe in Christ, who have entered in a lawful way through Holy Baptism into the Church He founded, those living upon the earth and those who have died in the Faith and in piety."

I hope this has answered your question. You can always run a quick search if you want to know more.

[m5lange1]

Inquisitor Posted on 9-27-04 12:16 PM

Indeed catolicism is a heresy. Orthodox Christianity has clearly difinied it as such for hundreds of years. Hence the term - latin heresy. Catolic church choose to be of this world, and become materialistic as the result. As to pope, god be his judge. Clearly for visiting a sinagogue he will burn in hell forever.

This is the same guy who has doubts about the holocaust because of lack of evidence.

Inquisitor Posted on 9-28-04 1:52 PM

I personally have very serious doubts about holocaust for the following reasons: 1. There is no factual evidence apart from suvivour's accounts

And goes on to say

I have meet many jews in my life ( some 60-70) some were good people, most were not, but every single one without exception was a pathological liar. So their witness cannot be taken seriously.

Inquisitor, I think you are having us on. C'mon fess up. :rolleyes:
If not I will be very interested in what "evidence" has convinced you that your version of Christianity is fact.

[orgaelin]

Originally posted by m5lange1,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (m5lange1,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And goes on to say <!--QuoteBegin-Inquisitor I have meet many jews in my life ( some 60-70) some were good people, most were not, but every single one without exception was a pathological liar. So their witness cannot be taken seriously.

Inquisitor, I think you are having us on. C'mon fess up.
[/b][/quote]

By God I had no idea he'd said anything that stupid!

This guy really is beyond help. Doesn't it terrify you that there are people like Inquisitor allowed to exist in the world?!

It's like what Technosoul and I were discussing: ideas are like seeds in the mind, but the mind can also produce weeds; ideas that choke all ordinary and healthy ideas and lead to a thoroughly overgrown and perversed mind.

Do you think Inquisitor might be the reincarnation of Hitler? Hmmm...

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by orgaelin, Doesn't it terrify you that there are people like Inquisitor allowed to exist in the world?

Not really. Did he hurt you guys feelings? You know-it-alls hold forth on all kinds of crap; what is worse about his crap? Terrified? Ha! The globalist killers are the ones who threaten us...

As far out as Inquisitor's stuff is, it's no worse than yours, orgaelin. Maybe a little better.

And bergeron is pretty "right on" from a Biblical viewpoint.

voyager, dump on the Bible all you like. It's still better than scraps of Josephus and speculation like orgaelin's hooey.

[Inquisitor]

Inquisitor, I think you are having us on. C'mon fess up. If not I will be very interested in what "evidence" has convinced you that your version of Christianity is fact.

What had convinced me would not convince you. Yet the question is put forth and must be answered.

The most convincing evidence that Holy Orthodoxy is the only true religion is the fact that we live in a way which is right not in a way which is safe, convinient, profitable, comfortable, fashionable, socially aceptable etc. It means that our daily lives are an unseen warfare, "not: against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph. 6:12).
Orthodox way is hard and therefore right, " Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Of course it's much easier to live in sin and enjoy all the pleasures modern life has to offer, "Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

Even in earthly life, success comes via hard effort and few find it ( only 3% of Americans are rich, yet most aspire). The same happens when we talk of success in the " other world", the hardest church to follow is right.

m5lange1 and orgaelin, thank you very much.
Mt 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

[orgaelin]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PatrickHenry,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-orgaelin, Doesn't it terrify you that there are people like Inquisitor allowed to exist in the world?

Not really. Did he hurt you guys feelings?[/b][/quote]

Oh boy Patrick, I missed you!

It was kind of odd, there you were, debating away with me... what was it you asked for? Oh yeah - references!

And then I gave you some, lots of them, and backde up everything I said...

...and then...

...nothing!

You quickly sidestepped everything and ran away, only to return with this, the best of your comebacks:

You know-it-alls hold forth on all kinds of crap;

So instead of handling the issues I raised by raising counter arguments, you just pass me off with what you think is an insult, calling me a know-it-all...

In fact that's a bit lie that time you told me I was so erudite.

You're not too good with insults are you Patrick? Or is it Henry? How many personalities do you have?!

what is worse about his crap? Terrified?

Well, his is full of hatred. To my mind, that makes it bad.

Ha! The globalist killers are the ones who threaten us...

And who are they? President Bush and Tony Blair?

You know there's been real controversy in the UK news lately because an Islamic group in Iraq have taken hostage a British engineer who was nothing to do with the war... they're threatening to behead him if the US don't release two female prisoners.

Everyone is the UK is rallying behind his family, and the PM's weak attempts to secure his release... so I'm watching the news and it says all this stuff about how this poor man doesn't deserve anything, and how the extremists are so bad for picking on an innocent man...

And then the very next news item comes on, explaining how US soldiers had dropped a bomb on a "military target" that just happened to look like a house. In it were a mother and her three children, and only one of the children survived; a helpless toddler.

And I just put myself in the position of that extremist, hearing the UK tell me how wrong we were for killing and innocent man, and then I consider those innocent children and their mother, and I know what I would feel like doing.

As far out as Inquisitor's stuff is, it's no worse than yours, orgaelin. Maybe a little better.

Would you like to qualify that statement? You like me to back up what I say, so should you.

voyager, dump on the Bible all you like. It's still better than scraps of Josephus and speculation like orgaelin's hooey.

Again, back yourself up. What reason is there to refute Josephus? Why call it scraps? Do you have any idea whether his works have been found on 'scraps', or in books, or carved into stone? No you don't. Stick to the facts as you know them, and can demonstrate them.

And "hooey"? At least I was able to support my hooey with data that you could go out and check if you weren't so closed-minded and/or afraid to challenge your faith.

I know you can do better than just calling my ideas "hooey". Give it a shot Patrick. Go through just ONE of my lengthy posts and tell us why, point by point, that I am wrong about everything.

[PatrickHenry]

orgaelin, I told you before why I don't "debate" in this forum. It's not really debatable stuff, ie. it's ALL opinion. The stuff I said above is my opinion. Why bother to debate opinions? Just let it out and let it lie.

Btw, Josephus actually had very little to say about Jesus of Nazareth.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by m5lange1, This is the same guy who has doubts about the holocaust because of lack of evidence.

You can not be serious, can you ?
Does it mean, that Jews committed a "mass-suicide", during WWII ???

[orgaelin]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, orgaelin, I told you before why I don't "debate" in this forum. It's not really debatable stuff, ie. it's ALL opinion. The stuff I said above is my opinion. Why bother to debate opinions?

Because, when faced with my opinion, you insisted that I justify them. I did. You failed to then justify your assertion that I was wrong, and it is my opinion that said failure is due in no small part to incapability. You can't explain why I must be wrong.

[quote]Btw, Josephus actually had very little to say about Jesus of Nazareth./QUOTE]

Ah! And may I ask what you've managed to dig up on the net?

[m5lange1]

PatrickHenry Did he hurt you guys feelings? You know-it-alls hold forth on all kinds of crap; what is worse about his crap?

I don't know if I was included in the "you guys" above or not. But my feelings certainly were not hurt.

As far as worse crap though I will take a shot at answering

what is worse about his crap?

Crap does indeed have degrees of crappiness. And the aromatic effect of various levels of crap is often quite subjective.

While to some, for example, Michael Moore may be a veritable gourmet delight where as to others he is the ultimate Bovine Poop Soup.

In general though PH I would have to say people coming out and attacking "all" Jews as pathological liars and saying that the Pope will burn in hell, and that he doubts the Holocaust due to lack of evidence then professes to use orthodox Christianity as a basis for decision making..... well.....
I guess on the old Crap-O-Meter that would rank (no pun intended) up there as deeper than your average pile of Bull Shit to most people.

But hey, if the pile is less offensive to you than others, feel free to sit down wind.

[orgaelin]

See m5langel? Why do I even need to be here when there's people like you who can sum it up so succinctly?!

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by orgaelin, Because, when faced with my opinion, you insisted that I justify them. I did. You failed to then justify your assertion that I was wrong, and it is my opinion that said failure is due in no small part to incapability. You can't explain why I must be wrong. Btw, Josephus actually had very little to say about Jesus of Nazareth. Ah! And may I ask what you've managed to dig up on the net?

Here's Josephus Book Eighteen, Chapter Three, Section 3:

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-18.htm
That's all Josephus says about Jesus...
orgaelin, you like making stuff up. I like the Bible and take it at face value. Am I incapable of proving you wrong? Sure, just like you can't prove what you're saying is true. You backed up everything? Not really. You just came forth with more opinions.

My faith is solid, based on years of Bible study. I have a friendship with God that goes way past the kind of speculative searching I see in you. But I wish you the best in your seeking, hoping you can find something real and foundational.

My pointed response to you was in answer to the implicit threat against Inquisitor. You as much as said he has no right to exist. Meaning if you had a chance, you would kill him. Jesus said: Mattthew 5:22 "I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill."

You are terrified that Inquisitor is allowed to exist? Save your fear for real terrorists. A guy with lousy opinions isn't a cause for hatred and fear.

[orgaelin]

You'll notice I didn't say much about Jesus either. The only reference to Jesus in my 'story' was to his overturning the tables, etc.

That's not even Josephus, that's the bible.

The relavent material of Josephus is in "The Wars Of The Jews".

My faith is solid, based on years of Bible study. I have a friendship with God that goes way past the kind of speculative searching I see in you

But here's what confuses me. How can you reconcile the faith you know in your heart with the words of the bible, which portray God as so vengeful and wrathful?

But I wish you the best in your seeking, hoping you can find something real and foundational

As do I. That is certainly what I lack.

My pointed response to you was in answer to the implicit threat against Inquisitor. You as much as said he has no right to exist. Meaning if you had a chance, you would kill him.

Oh come on! I never threatened Inquisitor, and if I did, show me where. He has every right to exist, and every right to his opinions. I said it terrifies me that he exists because he believes in a lot of negative stuff that could make for a very unpleasant world.

He believes anyone with a physical defect is a witch, and should not be allowed to live. If he had his way, far more than half of the world's population would die.

That's why this guy is scary. His opinions are too extreme. As long as they are just his opinions, he doesn't scare me at all. But if the world was ever run according to his wisdom, I suspect he'd find a reason for even you to be found unworthy of living.

You shouldn't be siding with him. Surely you don't agree with his more extreme opinions?

Jesus said: Mattthew 5:22 "I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill."

Was that last bit supposed to be outside of the speech-marks?

That's what I am talking about when I say it is dangerous to take the bible literally. I have called my brothers stupid *many* times in my life. That does not make me a murderer. It makes me Human.

The brink of hellfire? For calling your brother a name? If we lived by these rules, *everyone* would be in jail!