Empire of the Jews

[orgaelin]

This post may upset a number of people, as the story it tells is enough to blow you away. It is about the true plans of Jesus and his forefathers to create a new worldwide Jewish faith. Keep an open mind.

40 years before the Christian Era began, the Jews found themselves with a new king. His name was Herod. Jewish historian Flavius Josephus assures us that Herod was not even Jewish, coming from Idumea in the south, of mixed Semitic race. He also explains how Herod converted to a form of Judaism that suited him, and then tried to enforce that form on everyone else.

Judea was a very poor country, but outside of the homeland there were Jews living in relative luxury. The Jewish living outside of Judea were known as the Diaspora. It was these people who first began to notice the growing interest among Pagan Gentiles in the pure forms of Jewish faith.

Herod was a very strong king, who gained the trust of the Romans by supplying them with troops and money. He stood up to Cleopatra when she attempted to seduce him, and ultimately the Romans looked to him to protect their interests in the East. It is said that, throughout the Diaspora, Jews began to feel a sense of unity and purpose under their new monarch.

In turn, Herod began extensive building projects in Judea. He restored Jerusalem, entirely rebuilt the temple, fortified the harbour at Caesarea, constructed a summer palace down the side of the barren cliff at Masada, and built up an army and fleet.

The big question, of course, is how? All of this would have needed a lot of money. Where did he get it? Consider Jews in the Diaspora, wanting to make some sort of commitment to their faith...

But first another man joins the scene. His name was Hillel the Great, a Babylonian Jew. He taught about personal and ethical renewal which could be expressed through baptism in water. His view was that Old Covenant that belonged to all Jews as a right of birth needed to be supplemented with a New Covenant based on choice. And for this he felt there should be a new Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Diaspora Jews would thus receive their baptism and promise to, “Return to the law of Moses with all their heart”. Many of them had begun to use Greek names, but would all now be given new Jewish names to use at the religious meetings of a New Isreal.

Though these ideas came from Hillel, a more active part was played by a man named Menahem, the Diaspora Essene.

Menahem was a talented man, as founder of the Magians. He was brought in by Herod as an advisor, as Herod had a fondness for him due to a childhood memory when Menahem prophesied that he would one day be king.

The roles of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were thus created, but each role was subordinate to Herod. Isaac/Menahem then sent out missionaries to convert both Jews and Gentiles to this renewed form of Judaism. It was still held, though, that gentile converts would have to submit to circumcision. The plan was nothing less than the creation of a new world Empire of the Jews.

Herod’s association with Menahem and the Essenes meant that he had to take into account their longstanding support of the David family. The former royal family had lost the throne in the fifth century BC, but had a strong party of loyalists formed around them, dreaming of their restoration and a return to the Isreal of old. This was the historical reason for the formation of the Essenes. They intended to restore both the Davids and the high priests of the family of Zadok who had held sway with them. There were still many who believed that only a David could be the true king.

In summary, it was decided that Herod would rule over an Abraham in the centre, with an Isaac in the east, while Rome and the west would come under a Jacob. The Jacob role would belong the reigning David, a man by the name of Heli. Two generations later, Heli would have a grandson: Jesus.

It should be noticed that the two genealogies given for Jesus, in Luke and Matthew’s gospels, seem to disagree on who Joseph’s father was. One calls him Jacob, the other calls him Heli. It can now be seen that they were in fact both correct.

When Jesus said, “Many will come from the East and West and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of Heaven”, he was actually referring to the political plans of the day, rather than some spiritual prediction of the future.


The Ransom for one’s Soul

So back to the question of where all Herod’s money came from. Herod’s plan was immensely successful, and Jews and Gentiles throughout the known world were eager to join up. Meetings were held in secret, in the evenings in private houses. Admission was granted upon presentation of a white stone from the river Jordan. The stones were given to members at their baptism, with their new Jewish names written upon them.

The book of Revelation makes reference to this practice, saying “To him who conquers I will give a white stone, with a new name written on the stone which no one knows except him who receives it.”

The price for this membership was a half-shekel, about a days wages. A small price to pay for salvation, especially as a once-only fee. It was acceptable to make further donations, and eventually this turned into a practice of paying a yearly amount as a ‘peace offering’.

The missionaries would go out to the Diaspora with their leather wallets full of white stones, and return with them filled with money in foreign currencies. Once changed by the money-changers, it was stored in Herod’s vaults to fund his building projects.

Depending on where the converts were from, they were also given badges with an emblem of the particular order they were joining. The various regions were divided into twelve to correspond to the original “twelve tribes” of Israel. Each tribe would bear a different image: one used a sheep, another was a dove, another used an ox, and so on.

Now here’s the clever part. When the missionaries were giving out the memberships in exchange for the fees, it was said that they were “Selling oxen and sheep and doves” and turning religion into a shop.

Seventy years later on in the mission, a certain descendant of the Jacob-David line took objection to this, arguing that salvation should be given freely by the grace of God, not bought like common commodities. Taking a whip, he thus overturned the tables of the moneychangers and those selling oxen, sheep and doves.

The simple message behind the story was the Jesus declared that from that time on there would be no fee for joining the new religious movement.

This was just one of the many acts of Jesus which went against the wishes of the leaders of the movement of which he was a part. Each of Jesus’ seven signs was in fact a rebellion against the rules of the establishment, and it was these rebellions which ultimately led to his death sentence.

I will deal with each of the seven signs in turn, though I’ve already written up the “walking on water” one.

[Compugasm]

The kingdom of God is within you and all around you. It is not within buildings of wood or stone. Split a piece of wood and you will find me. Look beneath a stone and I am there.

[orgaelin]

You so often seem to lack a point.

Are you trying to say that the quote you gave negates what I said?

Because if so, it doesn't. Even if the "kingdom of god" referred to a new Judaism he could still have said the same.

Or are you making a reference to the spiritual nature of the "kingdom of god"?

It really would help if you were clear!

~ Org.

[PatrickHenry]

You're making this stuff up, orgaelin.

What are you, the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?

[orgaelin]

No I'm not Patrick, though you did make me laugh!

It's all outlined by Flavious Josephus. What I wrote is just a re-write of the work of Barbara Thiering, and in turn she is quoting Flavius Josephus.

Josephus was a Jewish historian who actually lived in Judea at the time when Jesus was alive, and is generally accepted as a very valuable source of information about history both in and before his own time. The same ideas are echoed by Laurence Gardner.

We have two tools at our disposal here for ascertaining the truth. One is the work of Josephus, a historical reference, and the other is our own judgement of whether or not the pieces fit the puzzle.

I think they do. The explanations about the white stones and Jesus turning over the tables of those selling sheep, oxen and doves... they just make sense, or at the very least more sense than if you just take the biblical stories literally and on their own.

However far from the truth it seems or even may be, it still seems closer than accepting each of the 'miracles' literally.

I'm not against miracles, and still assert that none of this should have a negative effect on anyone's faith. Jesus could still have been sent by god, but with god working through the minds of men, rather than sending down ghosts to impregnate virgins.

Seriously, whose explanations are the most credible?

[Technosoul]

The historical background you presented for your post would seem logical and they would certainly explain things a bit.

I wonder about a couuple of things that I will pose as questions.

(1) Could the historical account presented have been written by someone of the Jewish faith who wanted to counter-act the opinions of Paul and for the purpose of restoring faith in the concepts of an all-Jewish dotrine where outsiders could not by choice join?

(2) Were the people on the steps of the temple selling stones or real animals to be sacrificed as burnt offerings in the temple? Was not the whip used only to drive off the livestock and not to attack people with?

Now when Jesus set up his chruch it was because Peter had a revelation about who Jesus was in answering his question "who do you think I am". Thus the name peter means "rock" or stone, which was his new name. (As Jesus had said "before Abraham I was" and refused the title of being a David). Sorry I am no good that pulling up chapter and verse, so this is for those how are well read and can remember those passages. But at least we know that Jesus often would "re-name" people and so there must of been some tradition already known about concerning that activity.

Symboically it would be like replacing your old indenity or self-image with a new one, sort of like starting over again. Like when the boxer Clay changed his name to "X" or whatever he called his self, Mahammed Ala...? Forgot the new name. As slaves often were given the names of their master, but when set free the could get a new name or re-use the name given them by their origins (if they still knew what is was). A name suggested whom you "belong" too.
Example I could call my self "Technosoul of nowhere" because I do not belong to any "group idenity".

I pose this sort of as a question to get your feed-back concerning if these comments fit the puzzle logically.

Technosoul of the Blue.

[orgaelin]

I've finally got my wife out of the house for a while so I can get a chance to reply! She bought The Sims 2 and I've barely had a moment on the PC since!

Originally posted by Technosoul, (1) Could the historical account presented have been written by someone of the Jewish faith who wanted to counter-act the opinions of Paul and for the purpose of restoring faith in the concepts of an all-Jewish dotrine where outsiders could not by choice join?

It's possible, but not so probable, because you have to consider the effectiveness of such a plan. Also, if the elements of the story were made up, then what would they have been fighting against?!

To me, that version would make me more likely to opt for the more accepting religion, not for the close-minded, closed-doored and racist Orthodox Judaism.

(2) Were the people on the steps of the temple selling stones or real animals to be sacrificed as burnt offerings in the temple? Was not the whip used only to drive off the livestock and not to attack people with?

I don't think the whip was an important feature. They might just have said he usde a sword. Perhaps they chose 'whip' because it seemed out of character for Jesus to use a sword? Even though Jesus himself said he came to bring 'not peace but a sword'.

[Technosoul]

I am reminded of something I wanted to mention, for your opinion.
About the white stones with the secret name for self.

But first I still think the conducted burnt offerings of real animals at the temple as we have so much written about that and that is how the temple employee got his supper. Also, you would only need one secret name so selling them week after week would not seem practical.

But back to the stones and names. If you got a chance to look at the links for my Wicca messages you will find that older pagan Seers would cast stones on the ground, when the stones fell they made a pattern that could be interpreted using the terminology of symboalism (shapes). And then with those symbols they could counsel someone about a problem or tell the future. This was common world wide in different ways, in China they might have used tea leaves for the same purpose in a cup of tea.

At about the time people switched from using numbers instead of letters for words the educated Jewish people updated the stone tossing ritual by adding letters to each stone, they would stay up sometimes all night tossing the lettered stones on the ground in search of their secret god given name (which the letters would spell out if by chance and fate they landed in the right order to spell the name). I do not know the spelling but I think that ritual was called something like "khaballa"? I was thought if fate spelled a word it was an act of god because the tossing could not be controlled by human will. We have terms like "casting your fate to the wind". They simply changed the ritual from using the harder to comprehend terminology of symbolism to using letters that could spell out words. I think John in the Book of Revelations was mentioning that ancient stone tossing ritual.

That religious game later evolved into the games of gambling (tossing dice, bingo, etc) and tarot card reading and card games.

And in it's worse example it was used to find out what fate (meaning God) would rule or judge. They would strap someone in a chair and dunk them head first under water, if they drown then god ruled they were guilty, it they did not drown then god (by fate) ruled they were innocent and must be set free. (RE: Witch trials).

Also, if the right name came up during the stone toss (right letters) then they saw that as an important "sign" that God had called them into His service to become part of the presthood.

whatcha think?
Technosoul.

[orgaelin]

Originally posted by Technosoul, ...I still think the conducted burnt offerings of real animals at the temple as we have so much written about that and that is how the temple employee got his supper.

I don't dispute that for a minute. They did do that, of course, but it's unrelated to the idea of 'selling oxen, sheep and doves'.

Also, you would only need one secret name so selling them week after week would not seem practical.

I think I wasn't clear on that. It's a complicated story. They only received their stone with a name on it once. When they had done it, they were officially members. There was later a custom of making donations of the same amount as the members fee, but this was yearly.

But back to the stones and names. If you got a chance to look at the links for my Wicca messages you will find that older pagan Seers would cast stones on the ground,

I've done it myself. I experiemented with a number of different divination methods, from Tarot and tea-leaves to i-ching and Runes.

By far my favourite was the Runes, as I find them most effective. In one worrying incident I predicted my betrayal of a best friend by stealing a girl from him. Of course, I instantly assured him that, being forewarned, I would be able to prevent this from ever happening, so even if it was in the future, we could change it.

But still it happened. That was direct evidence, for me, of the unavoidability of fate... but I still don't believe the future is set in stone, or rune stones!

[Technosoul]

I kind of made it sound too simplistic - tossing lettered stones on the ground to spell a name was much more complex and I for one cannot comprehend it very much.

Following is a webpage that addresses the vast complexity involved behind the pagan-jewish "white stones with names" ritual. Keep in mind that this was sort of side-cult within the Jewish religion and not everyone of the Jewish community was involved in the teachings.

http://www.golden-dawn.org/intro_kabbalah.htm

[Technosoul]

In the message above I gave a webpage about the Jewish rituals of the Kabbalah which were part of the stone tossings and readings.

Although the stones seemed to fall at random by fate or chance it was not a matter of "luck" because they felt that everything that happened was by "Intelligent Design" and so whatever design the stones made must conform to the destiny of God's will, as the designer and script writer.

Thus, when they brought a woman to Jesus who they wanted judged for not being faithful, he started to write in the sand some of the Kabbalha letters so that he could discern the pattern of the stones they might toss at her when they fell upon the ground. But to toss the stones you must first be in a "perfect state of mind" and so he said "let he who is perfect cast the first stone"... and they all walked away, fearing what he might read in the "signs" of the fallen stones about them.

Technosoul.

[Deut. 32.8]

Originally posted by orgaelin,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (orgaelin,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Josephus was a Jewish historian who actually lived in Judea at the time when Jesus was alive, and is generally accepted as a very valuable source of information about history both in and before his own time.[/b]

Flavius Josephus was born in 37 CE and therefore did not live in Judea "at the time when Jesus was alive". His works are, in fact, deemed very valuable and worthy of critical investigation, but his works are also known to reflect self interest, superstition, and exageration.

<!--QuoteBegin-orgaelin,
We have two tools at our disposal here for ascertaining the truth. One is the work of Josephus, a historical reference, and the other is our own judgement of whether or not the pieces fit the puzzle.[/quote]
What an amazing sentence. You might wish to visit Eisenbrauns - there is a great deal of 2nd Temple Period archaeology and history at our disposal. As for "own judgement of whether or not the pieces fit the puzzle", much depends upon whether or not you cherry-pick your pieces then piece them together with speculation and innuendo.

[Technosoul]

I checked the weblink Eisenbrauns but could not find who created the webpage or if it was established by a religious organization dedicated to the partisan objective of proving that the bible is correct - or not.

However, looks interesting and I hope to review it in more depth later, anyway that is my in-put but I am not Orgaelin.

Technosoul.