How did death hit you?

[orgaelin]

I really want some good replies to this topic...

I want to know what it was like for you when you first developed a true understanding of the fact that one day you are going to die. Did you freak out? What were your beliefs like before you realised you were going to die, and how, if at all, have they changed since? Also, at what age did you realise it? Was anyone able to help you through it? Did you go see anyone, like a priest or a psychic medium or anything to try and find comfort?

Be as honest and open as you can. I would like to see the different ways it affects people and how they deal with it.

Also, have you ever known anyone else going through this, like your children or something. And were you able to help them? How?

My own experience was pretty bad. I was 16, lying in bed, wondering what I would like to have happen to my body when I died. The more I thought about it, the more I freaked out. I got into a major pannic attack.

I actually went for two weeks in an almost constant state of pannic before I broke down, unable to hold it all in any more.

I had been a strong athiest beforehand, maintaining an entirely scientific understanding of the world. I prided myself on an intellect unaffected by silly and unprovable nonsense.

It took me a long time to get over it, and my best solution, ultimately, was to learn to simply not think about it. Great solution huh?! At least it taught me some strong self mind control!

Once I got it under control, I set about looking for a more comforting truth. I wanted to find something that could prove to me that there was something else out there than just eternal non-existence. My grandmother and mother both claim psychic abilities, with the grandmother being an active member of the spiritualist church, as well as a medium. So between them they managed to find a medium who would speak to me.

I was excited. But it was a total waste of time. She didn't fail to prove anything, she simply didn't even try. I just got a long talk about the whole thing.

After that I got serious. I would seek out and buy any book on the occult, divination, ancient norse mythology, the Tarot, etc. I had some interesting progress with a few things, but wondered if this might be the wrong direction.

That's when I turned back to the faith I was raised in as a young(er) child; Christianity.

I remembered a lot of stuff from church. I knew my way around the bible at least. I asked God, "What can I do to become closer to you?" and then I flicked open my bible and read the first text my eyes landed on, which said "read your bible every day". It was a bible with loads of bits added in for kids. But still, I was impressed!

But as I started getting interested, I started to notice that there was a huge discrepency between what I had been told the bible said, and what it actually said. It made no sense to me that some of the gospels didn't even mention the Nativity, for example.

I tried for a year to maintain a Christian faith, but my strong need for reasoned and incontrovertible truth would not let me.

After that I went back in time, researching human origins and ancient history. There's always some amazing stuff to learn, but it's never what I'm looking for; the final, absolute answer I need.

I have looked into various modern faiths, the Baha'i, Mormonism, Scientology. I have looked at a number of other major religions and practices, like Hinduism, Islam, Judaism. None of them have been able to present me with anything that I could say made me feel better about dying.

And to this day I search for the truth, hoping that the truth is not the truth I'm hiding from.

Sorry that's all a bit depressing! What's your story?

If it's too personal for you to share on here, feel free to PM me with it. I look forward to reading...

[Paavo]

Funny, I've been dwelling in thoughts about death and its absolute nature for some time, ever since my Father was diagnozed with Leukemia (blood cancer), some time ago -- and now it's back -- as he's in ER after a bypass surgery, and have had some problems with stopping the bleeding. He was under the knife today (thursday), so he's in a very critical stage still as I'm typing this.

I just returned from the local pub, so excuse typos and silly structure of writing , it's been a nervous day for me and my family.

Anyway, about death;
I've been more or less atheist in my "beliefs" after I realized how absurd the christian god is in my early teens. The reason why I went on about about my Father, is that I've today been put in the situation where I found myself asking the question: "Am I desperate enough -- in this instance -- to pray, even though I haven't acknowledged god?". I really pondered about it the whole day with tears in my eyes, which is more than I'm sure 99% of the by-parents-guidance-religious people have, and finally came to peace with it; I don't need to pray to a god for this. If there is one, it surely doesn't require me to -- in a time of pain -- bow down and make a false "connection" to it. In any case (with him dying or surviving), I know now that I believe in science and logic, and my Father's own physical/mental abilities to fight the problems, not a false christian/muslim/hindu etc etc god.

So, anyway, about death itself. I do believe that when you die, you die. You are no more. I've been reading what "Orgaelin" has been writing on this forum, and I think he/she has some good points when it comes to souls, but I know I'll never know (even following his/her ideas about it). The thing I do know though, is that when your friend dies, that friend is gone from you. Relish the memories of that person, but relish them for your pleasure, not a god's or his "soul's". Keep in mind what the person has done, and tell them to others, for your pleasure and peace of mind, not the dead one's. Even in the case of the person that has died would "want this and that", he/she would most likely not want you to do anything different for him/her!
Let's say you die, and go to heaven or whatever. You see your child/friend look up to the sky and saying "I know [insert your name here] would've wanted me to do this, even if it will cost me [insert something he/she loves here]." Why the hell would anyone do that?

I know I'm going really random here, but as I said, I'm a bit beerish and sad and scared, and someone posted a thread about death in general.

As a footnote; I hate people who seek sympathy over the internet, so let me make it clear I'm NOT looking for "I'll pray for your dad" or "Sorry to hear about your father" - replies, mmkay?

[Mr.Vicchio]

I once feared death, but now I realize death is just a step into another life. I fear it not.

[Paavo]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, I once feared death, but now I realize death is just a step into another life. I fear it not.

That's swell, V, but how and why did you come to the conclusion you did?

[tman_ndsu08]

Everytime that something gets completed that I just wanted to "get it over with", I get reminded that I'm going to die someday.

[orgaelin]

Hey Paavo.

I'm a guy, by the way!

About your father and praying... I'm not giving you sympathy! I just wondered if you had considered praying to yourself?

I know that sounds absurd, probably more so than praying to God! But let me explain...

Because I view each and every one of us as little pieces of God, I hold the view that if I want something badly enough I can just ask for it. It doesn't matter who/what I ask. I never ask God; he's an ignorant git who never answered me once! But I just ask, ensuring my reasons are fair, and then forget about it.

And then it happens.

Seriously!

Obviously I don't go pushing it. I don't go asking for millions of pounds and have it happen. It wouldn't.

Now I know you're a scientist, and I fortunately tend to have scientific explanations for everything I believe as well...

The unconscious mind is by far the most powerful computational device in existence. If you put together every computer ever made they would still not match it's computational power.

A friend of mine once observed a baseball game. The ball hadn't been thrown yet, but for some reason my friend decided to raise his hand, ready to catch it. He was in the audience. Any way, the ball was thrown, hit, and flew straight into his waiting hand.

True story.

How did it happen? Because the unconscious mind really is able to simply compute that far ahead.

You may not believe me. I guess it's something you have to experience. But now is a good time.

If you put in a request to your unconscious mind, and then forget about it (which is an important step) you will find your unconscious mind can actually work to achieve amazing things for you.

I could explain this properly so you'd agree with me, but I haven't the time as the wife is due home and I've got much to do if I don't want to be nagged into next week!

Another question for ya: I have a friend who is also experiencing the imminent death of her father, also to a form of cancer. I know you don't want sympathy, but what might a friend do or say to help you, if anything?

Final question: Is that nodding picture a live video feed? It's freakin' me out!!

[orgaelin]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr.Vicchio,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I once feared death, but now I realize death is just a step into another life. I fear it not.[/b]

Sounds simple. Surely it wasn't that simple was it?!

<!--QuoteBegin-tman,
Everytime that something gets completed that I just wanted to "get it over with", I get reminded that I'm going to die someday.[/quote]

I don't seem to be following you either!

How do you feel when you get reminded of that?

[Paavo]

Haha, I didn't notice it was in fact you who started the thread, hence my lame sentence about your writings in my reply.

So here's the slight hangover-reply the day after:

First, my mother SMSed me saying that my Father's doing alright just now, and he is awake. So we're in the clear...for now.
The thing you said about "praying" to one self, I don't find hard to understand and believe at all. Just that I wouldn't use the word "pray" exactly, as it isn't what the word implies IMO. But yeah, selftalking and not under-estimating the subcontious self are strong things.
The baseball thing seems very weird, but not impossible at all. I would've wanted to see that!

I know you don't want sympathy, but what might a friend do or say to help you, if anything?

Actually, I like to joke around about everything. It just makes it easier to handle -- not in a way to downplay the problems, but make them more close and un-taboo them in some way. Guess that's not everyone's cup of tea though.

Final question: Is that nodding picture a live video feed? It's freakin' me out!!

Hahahah, yea it's live... I sit in front of my webcam all day long, nodding away. No wonder my neck has started to make these weird rattling noises. O__O

I'll change the avatar soon, as it's bugging the hell out of myself even.

[Nono]

Originally posted by Paavo I'll change the avatar soon, as it's bugging the hell out of myself even.

Don't! I'm using it for self-hypnosis.

[don-gruntles]

it seems odd to be concerned about death. after all, where were we before we were born? so before and after, just like a make over, maybe the only thing missing is the mirror, so pure we walk through without a moments hesitation, finding not much has changed in the blink of an eye.. don gruntles

[Nono]

Yes, but that was before -- before we had an ego and a sense of something to lose, something to fear. And before we had our heads filled with religious dogma.

[Nono]

Originally posted by orgaelin I have a friend who is also experiencing the imminent death of her father ... what might a friend do or say to help you, if anything?

Paavo has answered. But here's a rule of thumb: whatever you say, don't bullshit the person. That's immediately detectable.

[orgaelin]

Paavo, I get what you mean about joking around and not being taboo. It's a good idea... but it definitely wont be her cup of tea!

I knew it was live. My wife was looking over my shoulder and she swore you winked at her!

Don-gruntless,

If you really do feel that way then you are one of the amazing few. Amazing to me any way.

Some people, yourself evidently included, seem to feel perfectly ok about the subject, and not have any understanding why it gets other people in such a state. I honestly wonder if you have a mental defect. Seriously!

The brain is supposed to give you strong feelings of fear around the subject of death in order to increase your odds of survival. People are being born all the time with certain brain functionality like this missing. Some people can't see blue, some can't appreciate that other people are not the same as themselves (autistics), and some don't have the proper instinct to fear death.

I have heard it said 'if you're dead any way, you wont even know about it and wnot care'... that doesn't make it any better, because right now I am alive, and I would rather give a damn and be alive than not givea damn 'cause I am dead!

I'm missing out on a demolition to write this... a four-storey block of flats less than 200meters away from my house.

Catcha later.

~ Org.

[orgaelin]

Originally posted by Nono, Paavo has answered. But here's a rule of thumb: whatever you say, don't bullshit the person. That's immediately detectable.

Absolutely have to agree. Thanks for the reminder!

[tman_ndsu08]

I don't seem to be following you either! How do you feel when you get reminded of that?

I don't feel anything. Just anytime that something gets done that I was really looking forward to or really dreading, it reminds me that "yup, I'm going to die someday". We only have a limited number of things that we look forward to and things we dread. Each time another one of those ends it's just proof that I'm getting older and one day it will be all gone.

If you realy want to know how that makes me feel, then I'm sorry to dissapoint you. I feel nothing about it now. Perhaps it's because I'm very young. Maybe when I'm older it will sink in more.

[Ken Carman]

I would have to say I've thought about death every day of my life. I come from a long list of people who either through cancer, accident, old age... have fallen apart... SLOWLY. I've come close to death several times, close enough to feel that mythical man's hot breath breathe down on me. One of my favorite sayings is, "When I die I hope to be walking down a street, someone drops a bank safe out a fifth story window and I don't hear it coming." Another is, "If I had been in the towers on 9/11 and died I would have wanted to be at point of impact."

Afterwards? I don't really care. What happens is what I happens. I don't have a lot of control over that, unless the more fundamentalistic folks are right: then I have no wish to be where they are going. Hell? I doubt it exists, unless we make it ourselves. Then I believe, like the pop-culture version in "What Dreams May Come," we may be able to escape. It won't be easy because we are trapped in our own delusions; as we all are to a certain extent. But to believe that the first 100 years decide whether we will ever come to the right conclusions, worship in the "right" way, or reform, is more than nuts to me. It's cruel and unusual punishment to toss a soul, or allow it to be tossed, in some eternal dumpster for what amounts to be far, far less than a mini-tick on that clock called eternity.

My morals and ethics (I consider them separate, where morals are what you have and ethics are how well you live up to the first term) are not dependant on fearing Hell, hoping for Heaven or wishing to see my dead love ones again. Sometimes we drove each other crazy in life, why the... would I want to be locked up into some kind of hellish eternity "heaven" with them?

Do the people we once knew, and who are gone, still exist? Would I want to go there too? I don't know. It depends upon where they might be that would decide whether I say "hope so" or "I hope not."

I do not fear death. It's the process of getting there that frightens me.

[Nono]

Don't mind dying
If I don't get sick.
Don't mind the needle,
I just hate the prick.
Don't mind the undertaker but
Please note this:
Don't want no ambulance,
Just take me away in a hearse.
I don't want to hang around
Pretending that I'm brave.
Take me right past the hospital
And straight to my grave!

-- Don Walsh, Downchild Blues Band

[Mr.Vicchio]

Originally posted by Paavo,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paavo,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio, I once feared death, but now I realize death is just a step into another life.  I fear it not.

That's swell, V, but how and why did you come to the conclusion you did?[/b][/quote]


Sorry for the delay Paavo.

The Bible. Well the Teachings of Jesus and opening my heart to his message. No precher put the bug in my ear, no priest gave it in sermon, no minister called down the holy rapture, I just reached a real low point in my life, opened my heart to Him and figured it was going to be OK, and that Heaven is there for us when we die.

I could give you a million little reasons, some from fear of death that lead me to seek alternatives to the thought that when that last heart beat occurs oblivion begins. Part of it has been seeking hope... an answer to Life. I have found the answer I am comfortable with. I am content and ready when the Lord calls, until then I try to lead a good life and hope I idon't screw up too badly.

If this rambles, sorry tired long work day...

[LDS]

I have no fear of death, I believe in Christ's atonement, making death a temporary thing. I believe there is an afterlife, that those who have passed on have simply graduated to bigger things.

[orgaelin]

LDS:

I have no fear of death

So you don't mind if we kill you then?!

Sorry. That was childish.

Isn't what you believe that people die but are ressurected later, after the big J-Day? And if so, what are they supposed to do in all the time inbetween?

The idea of their bodies coming back to life just seems so "return of the living dead" to me. Scary!

Mr Vicchio
I like what you have to say, and indeed I like what you have to feel... your faith is a good, nice, balanced faith. I truly would love to join you in it, and would if I could.

Nono
That was more than a little depressing as poems go!

Good ol' Ken

I've come close to death several times, close enough to feel that mythical man's hot breath breathe down on me

*several* times?! What's the deal, are you bad in traffic or what?! How does that feel (I sound like a shrink now!) to come so close so many times?

I came close only once. I had a dental abscess that spread to my liver and multiplied. My symptoms suggested common flu, so I just suffered it for a week. Oops! They said I had several absesces on my liver, and recounted the story of the only other guy ever to come to the hospital with the same problem... who died! I lost 30 pounds in two weeks from that, but the morphine was more than worth it!

Cutting to the point now: it was weird for me because it was totally clear that I was hanging on by a thread, but at no time did it really occur to me, 'hey, I'm dying here'. I don't know why. I guess my mind was certainly not working properly.

As for yourself, you seem to have a middle-level concept of death. There are three levels, by my own observations. At level one, some people have no fear of death at all. At level two, yours, people fear only the actual moment of death, the physical pain and unpleasantness of it. And then there's level three, where the very thought of ceasing to exist is the most horibble thing that could be conceived. Level three sufferers have it worst.

I agree with you on morals and ethics, but am worried that you sound like a Scientologist now! You seem to view what other people describe as 'heaven' as more like hell. That's a bit of a level three view - that even if there was a heaven it would suck. Imagine an eternity floating around in white clouds!

I think the people we once knew do still exist, but only untill they return to earth for another lifetime. But that's just me.

Okay folks, as you can see I'm trying to catch up with all the posts I've missed! Shout at me if I missed you.

~ Org.