How did death hit you?

[Ken Carman]

"Christ this is depressing!"


QUOTE
and if I don't have to go through all that and I suddenly get hit by a bus or something while looking the other way, thats even better.



"Well, for what it's worth, I hope you get hit by a bus!"

LOVED that last sentence. It's both funny. dark and light.

Depressing? Odd, I find it pleasurable. Now, let me go put on my goth clothes... (just kidding, but I suppose it's a lot like the guy who can't stand to discuss "gross things" at the kitchen table and the person who is fascinated by them...)

(snip)

Originally posted by orgaelin,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (orgaelin,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Ken Carman, When I realized I actually had this inside me, I NEVER went back there again.

I'm sorry? Had what inside you?

You mean the propensity to try to kill yourself?

You know it's ironic... at times my desperation for suicide has been matched only by my fear of death. A fortunate balance that has lead to me being still here today!




Unless, like me, you believe in balance. The truth could be somewhere between the two. That is, you really are having a spiritual experience but your bodily mind is what gives it the 'flavour'... some people see one thing, some people see another, depending to some extent on their expectations.

(snip)

Now that's an enlightened philosophy!

The difference is, there's no risk when opening your Christmas present that it might turn out to be something really horrible. Unless it's from that transvestite great aunt from Australia or something!



Some people have an innate ability to sense when a suggested truth either is or isn't true. I'm not talking about mundane things, but things only your infinite soul would know. If someone tells you, 'heaven is like this...' you get an inner feeling of whether or not they are right... am I right?



Let's just hope the J-Day believers are the wrong ones, cos if they're not, we'll be carrying on our debates in hell!



I totally agree. Even if it was totally alien to everything we know, and not something we presently feel we would enjoy, I think once we're there it would seem perfect.



All I would need is a Star Trek Holodeck!

[/b][/quote]

I suppose, using your own analogy that I agree with, I was out of balance. (Some use "Tao" or refer to "Taoism") When I look back at my reasoning at the time I understand why I did what I did. Did I make the right decision afterwards? Yes. There's so much I might have missed if I had succeeded. But, then again, the things that make me understand why I might have had good reason to dance down down that dark alley could be summed up the same way, "There's so much I would have missed."

And about the present, I don't know. I've gotten some pretty bad gifts... at least not raw hamburger. (Was that an SNL skit I'm remembering or some movie?)

Inner feeling, intuition, spirits/angels whispering in your ear, a gut feeling? Yes, whatever it is, you're right. I'm had it all my life. When it's something REALLY bad my wife and I call it "that motorhome feeling." Ten years ago I bought a motorhome despite everything in my inner being howling, "NO! NO!" If I had known all the gremlins those things are infested with I would have run the other direction screaming.

A holodeck would be great. I would only hope for the same amount of control I have now. When I was in college 3 million years ago I experimented with that whacky weed, briefly. I didn't care for it. I prize my creative
abilities more than any other ability I may or may not have. With that stuff I lost control of creativity. Of all the fun places I went, there were too many places I know better not to go when I'm smoke free. Haven't gone near it since. Just give me a great IPA, Barleywine or Stout and I'm good to go. Go where? All the places I wanted to go anyway, I'm just a little braver. So when I finally do die, maybe someone will get me drunk on great ale(s).

[orgaelin]

There's a great place near me, real ale. They rotate the beers even while you drink them, so you never get bored of all the different real ales you can drink. The very best is Archer's Golden.

If you're ever coming to the UK, ask me for the address. If you're going to die, that seems as good a place as any to me!

[Ken Carman]

Originally posted by orgaelin, There's a great place near me, real ale. They rotate the beers even while you drink them, so you never get bored of all the different real ales you can drink. The very best is Archer's Golden. If you're ever coming to the UK, ask me for the address. If you're going to die, that seems as good a place as any to me!

Just put my mouth under an Young's "Old Nick" tap and I'll be in heaven, even before I die. My wife and I have always wanted to go to the U.K. but I'm a little afraid I might get lost in the pubs. My family goes back to the 1600's in the states, but my heritage is a triple U.K. threat... Welsh, Scot and English.

I'm not sure if I've had Archer's Golden or not. Do they export? I have had a new Micro's ale here called "Archer's Ale" out of Marlborough, Mass. and it's a perfect English Mild, stylistically. It's not my favorite style, but it is excellent. Because it's sold in cans it is, by definition, not "real."

Drinking any of this? Not a bad way to go... (That's me, dead, stage right... to your left) I added that so Mods will know we're still on topic, at least a tad.

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by orgaelin, I really want some good replies to this topic... I want to know what it was like for you when you first developed a true understanding of the fact that one day you are going to die.

For me, it was just a few months ago. I went on a Road Trip around the United States. On my last day (back in my homestate) a piece of the car's side-panel came off and got caught behind the wheel. It shredded it, and forced the car to spin out. I was with a friend. We had a brief conversation before we hit the wall on the side of the freeway at 65mph. He said "You're fucking up Josh." to which I replied "Shit, I know man, I'm sorry. We're gunna die." He said "Yea, we are." Then we hit the wall and the airbags popped out. I was surrounded by the smell of death, the smell the airbag produces when the CO2 behind it explodes to push it through the plastic. We hit the wall. I came out of the car with my stomach bleeding, the airbag hit me so hard blood ripped through my skin. When my friend and I talked about it, we both agrees dieing isn't that bad. I was thinking the whole time, Man, I hope this doesn't hurt before I die. I really wasn't too upset about it, as long as it was quick it wasn't going to be that bad. Just so you guys know....

[Young]

Paavo - Sorry to hear about your Father.

Orgaelin - You & I, we Know two things really well, Birth & Death. We are surrounded by this complex, but here is what brings you home. We Know that everything we see, had a start & will have an end, water washes away rock, water can be made so unpure that its not water anymore, what came first the Chicken or the Egg? Thats the Complex, but here it is, i hope you are Ready, i'm going to Cap it for Power, and so you can easily find it when you come back to ponder it further.

IF A BEING DIDN'T EXIST THAT KNEW NO BIRTH OR DEATH.....HOW COULD WE BE REALITY?

That was my only ? that preachers couldn't answer as a child, the ? was who is God's Father? What came before God? I answered it for myself, and that was how i found the Lord.

Satan was cast out of Heaven.

We are ALL Sinners

Therefore WE are in Hell.

In Hell You are at Satan's mercy.

Satan has No mercy.

How do I know?

If i were truely wanting to create a place to rehabilitate criminals (Sinners) i would create a place that was a Matrix for their mind, and if they got to far gone, Death would allow them to start over, but if they were on the right track i'd leave them as long as possible so they could influence others.

If You truely don't wanna Believe, you stumbled across the Wrong Forum, because i'll Save You.

[orgaelin]

Holy crap Young, you're in a bad state if mind! I will reply to this more fully when I've a bit more time...

[Paavo]

[offtopic report on Paavo's Father]
He's doing alright, and able to walk around a bit - have visited him twice to the hospital, and things are looking up. :)
[/offtopic report on Paavo's Father]

As you were.

[Nono]

Aye aye, Paavo. Glad to hear it.

[orgaelin]

Screw that it's off topic - good for you man!!

And for him!

Give him a nod from me!

[Samildanach]

Hmmm, my avatar, well I will concede it has an aura swirling around it, I guess it a sign more than anything else, in my mind, that I am alive, its an energy field generated primarily because basically my body is a chemical battery.

How can I be so sure that there is no God and death is final? The answer is I can't, however to avoid dissapointment its prudent to believe this and I believe it makes you mentally tougher not to have to prop yourself up with a God who may or may not be real. One of my primary drives is independence and I will choose to be as mentally independent as possible. But really death is the final adventure whatever anyone says.

As for the cryogenics thing, you are correct Org in saying the problem is ice crystals forming, I have often wondered what would happen is a person took a lot of diuretics just before the procedure
for example if you take a full glass bottle and put it in the freezer it will shatter as ice forms however if you half full the bottle it will not, so in theory if you could minimise the amount of water in the cell ie severe dehydration it might still form ice but maybe there will not be enough to break the cell membranes thereby preserving structure. After all that is what cryonics is all about preserving structure, and while it is expensive its not prohibitively so if you plan a good deal of your life for it.
the bit I like about it is if you do wake up it will be a more or less instantaneous jump from the time you die until the time you wake, thirty years or whatever amount of time would pass in the blink of an eye, sure theres the down side, all your friends are probably dead etc but hopefully you would still have some family alive, and I maght be able to convince my wife to do the same thing so who knows...at least its a chance whereas by my way of thinking thats pretty much the only chance I'm going to get.

[Nono]

Originally posted by Samildanach How can I be so sure that there is no God and death is final? The answer is I can't, however to avoid dissapointment its prudent to believe this.

A cogent reply. Except that if there isn't, disappointment is hardly an issue.

[orgaelin]

So, ironically, if you die in the dessert you might have a good chance of surviving the freezing process?!

[Ken Carman]

Originally posted by orgaelin, So, ironically, if you die in the dessert you might have a good chance of surviving the freezing process?!

Does that fit the definition of that old cliche', "When Hell frezzes over?" :)

[Samildanach]

I suppose I mean that I would rather live my life in the belief that God is not real seeing as I have no other personally acceptable proof rather than live my life as if it were just the beginning of my existence. I want to live life as though its my only life. If I thought it wasn't I would probably waste it mucking around drinking to excess, doing hard drugs etc in the thought that I might as well top myself and get onto the next stage of the game as it were. I guess that if God were true for me I would also be forever searching for a reason that he created me.
It is also much more acceptable to me that this in this mad world where people like Bush make it to president and declare war for a few silly resources, to believe its all random, it also forces me personally to strive harder to create meaning for myself and for others rather than search for a meaning that has been created for me. So in the event that God is not real I win, if God is real, well I'll deal with that situation if and when I come to it.
as for the desert thing...well you might be good until the sun comes up...you would just hope they managed to get to you by then.
Maybe thats what all that mumification stuff was all about. Mind you..a desert could be the ideal location for a cryogenic freezing plant. Just get lots of old people, send them out running every evening so they sweat lots...half of them don't come back and die in the sand and you get the night shift to go find them about two in the morning and bring them back to the facility half frozen with no membrane damage for storage.