Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

mook · Sep 15, 2004, 01:05 am

...is because we accept death as an inevitability?

No, I haven't just been sitting in an Amsterdam coffee shop with Stewie Griffin. Let's seriously just discuss the feasibility of this being the case.

Say we didn't actually think we'd die in time. Say we didn't accept the scientific evidence that our crucial body parts would eventaully decay after 120 years even with optimal lifestyles. Pretend we didn't look back on a long history of people dying and think, "Hey, Napolean died. And so did Da Vinci. I must die someday, too."

Say we thought we were invincible. Truly thought it--not just pretending to think it as we drive into a bank. Truly thought it--not just living in the personal fable like most teenagers, but actually operating under the impression that one cannot possibly die.

It's a philosophical impossibility because no one can truly think they're immortal. But likewise, what if one could? Maybe they would become that.

Just pot for thought.

orgaelin · Sep 15, 2004, 04:35 am

The higher question is, can ones own certainties affect reality; can one believe something so strongly that it becomes reality because we think it so?

I think yes and no. A man who knows the sky is pink does not affect a change in the colour of the sky... he's just insane!

The problem is that reality is an 'agreed upon' reality. The sky is blue because we ALL agree that it is blue. We die because we ALL know we will. If we ALL knew we wouldn't die, then it might well be possible to make it so.

m5lange1 · Sep 15, 2004, 08:10 am

Well it seems to me that is backward thinking.
We die because we think we will is harder to get started than...
We think we will die because everybody allways has regardless of trying to survive.
I am sure animals have no concept of inevitable death.
I am reasonably sure there are (and have been) delusional people who think they are immortal.
You can argue that the soul never dies but the body goes folks, whether we agree on it or not.
I was convinced of that at Woodstock when the multitudes chanted "NO RAIN" just before we got a shower for one million.

Samildanach · Sep 15, 2004, 11:09 am

point already made in previous post.

Nono · Sep 15, 2004, 11:18 am

Quote:

Originally posted by m5lange1
I am sure animals have no concept of inevitable death.

And I'm sure that (Shangrila stories apart) there have been plenty of cases in human history of people who, in the grip of whatever, thought themselves immortal or were incapable of conceiving of death.
Are they still around?

That said, nothing like a positive outlook to maximize one's lifespan.

tman_ndsu08 · Sep 15, 2004, 12:23 pm

I wish they could fix the aging process. In other words, stop the slowing down of the chemical processes in the body.

I'm not saying I want to be immortal, I just don't want to appear or feel any older until the day I do die from whatever (accident, cancer, heart disease, etc.).

m5lange1 · Sep 15, 2004, 04:35 pm

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!!

tman_ndsu08 · Sep 15, 2004, 08:23 pm

...here we are...born to be kings...

orgaelin · Sep 16, 2004, 05:47 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nono
...thought themselves immortal or were incapable of conceiving of death.
Are they still around?

That said, nothing like a positive outlook to maximize one's lifespan.

Of course they're still around - Connor MacLeod!

But on a serious note, thinking you are immortal is not the same as knowing you are immortal.

None of us possibly can KNOW that we are immortal. But that doesn't take away the possibility that if we could, it might be so.

The ultmiate question here is: is knowledge the product of reality, or is reality the product of knowledge?

I would answer; yes. Both.

tman_ndsu08 · Sep 16, 2004, 08:38 am

The matter that compaoses our bodies is immortal.

Moreover, it is as old as the universe. So we're all 4 billion years old or whatever and will all exist forever in some sense.

Nono · Sep 16, 2004, 09:35 am

Quote:

Originally posted by tman_ndsu08+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tman_ndsu08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>(We) will all exist forever in some sense[/b]

Cold comfort.

<!--QuoteBegin-Neil Steinberg
Aren't decay and loss and oblivion the way of the world? Science tells us that, no matter who wins the National Book Award, eventually we'll all be part of the same lukewarm, uniformly distributed soup. The fact that Mick Jagger was big, and Andy Pratt wasn't, won't matter a lot then. [/quote]

Dusty · Sep 16, 2004, 02:34 pm

death is something we cannot stop nor overcome it comes to us at whatever age it seems fit.

tman_ndsu08 · Sep 16, 2004, 02:36 pm

Very true, however, why should we have to look and feel old?

Dusty · Sep 16, 2004, 02:41 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tman_ndsu08,
Very true, however, why should we have to look and feel old?

when a baby dies does it look and feel old?

orgaelin · Sep 16, 2004, 05:58 pm

Dusty, that was a really stupid reply. I honestly think you'll agree if you re-read it.

tman_ndsu08 · Sep 16, 2004, 07:27 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dusty,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dusty,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-tman_ndsu08,
Very true, however, why should we have to look and feel old?

when a baby dies does it look and feel old?[/b][/quote]

How could it feel old? It isn't old.

orgaelin · Sep 17, 2004, 03:53 am

And also it probably only feels dead.

combatrhino · Sep 17, 2004, 04:33 pm

all you need to do is take large amounts of PCP, distort your reality enough that no two buildings seem further than one jump away... and jump.

this topic isnt much different than the matrix philosophy... although it is interesting i dont know if there is any educated way to support it without just saying pure bs

Sep 15, 2004, 01:05 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
mook Molten Ash Posts: 32	...is because we accept death as an inevitability? No, I haven't just been sitting in an Amsterdam coffee shop with Stewie Griffin. Let's seriously just discuss the feasibility of this being the case. Say we didn't actually think we'd die in time. Say we didn't accept the scientific evidence that our crucial body parts would eventaully decay after 120 years even with optimal lifestyles. Pretend we didn't look back on a long history of people dying and think, "Hey, Napolean died. And so did Da Vinci. I must die someday, too." Say we thought we were invincible. Truly thought it--not just pretending to think it as we drive into a bank. Truly thought it--not just living in the personal fable like most teenagers, but actually operating under the impression that one cannot possibly die. It's a philosophical impossibility because no one can truly think they're immortal. But likewise, what if one could? Maybe they would become that. Just pot for thought. history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

Sep 15, 2004, 04:35 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 713	The higher question is, can ones own certainties affect reality; can one believe something so strongly that it becomes reality because we think it so? I think yes and no. A man who knows the sky is pink does not affect a change in the colour of the sky... he's just insane! The problem is that reality is an 'agreed upon' reality. The sky is blue because we ALL agree that it is blue. We die because we ALL know we will. If we ALL knew we wouldn't die, then it might well be possible to make it so. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Sep 15, 2004, 08:10 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
m5lange1 Igneous Magma Posts: 649	Well it seems to me that is backward thinking. We die because we think we will is harder to get started than... We think we will die because everybody allways has regardless of trying to survive. I am sure animals have no concept of inevitable death. I am reasonably sure there are (and have been) delusional people who think they are immortal. You can argue that the soul never dies but the body goes folks, whether we agree on it or not. I was convinced of that at Woodstock when the multitudes chanted "NO RAIN" just before we got a shower for one million. Protester against the culture war!!!!

Sep 15, 2004, 11:09 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	point already made in previous post. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Sep 15, 2004, 04:35 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
m5lange1 Igneous Magma Posts: 649	THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!! Protester against the culture war!!!!

Sep 15, 2004, 12:23 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	I wish they could fix the aging process. In other words, stop the slowing down of the chemical processes in the body. I'm not saying I want to be immortal, I just don't want to appear or feel any older until the day I do die from whatever (accident, cancer, heart disease, etc.).

Sep 15, 2004, 08:23 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	...here we are...born to be kings...

Sep 16, 2004, 08:38 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	The matter that compaoses our bodies is immortal. Moreover, it is as old as the universe. So we're all 4 billion years old or whatever and will all exist forever in some sense.

Sep 16, 2004, 02:34 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Dusty Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	death is something we cannot stop nor overcome it comes to us at whatever age it seems fit. Im still strong until i have admitted defeat.

Sep 16, 2004, 02:36 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Very true, however, why should we have to look and feel old?

Sep 16, 2004, 05:58 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 713	Dusty, that was a really stupid reply. I honestly think you'll agree if you re-read it. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Sep 17, 2004, 03:53 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 713	And also it probably only feels dead. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Sep 17, 2004, 04:33 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
combatrhino Molten Ash Location: university of iowa, iowa Posts: 26	all you need to do is take large amounts of PCP, distort your reality enough that no two buildings seem further than one jump away... and jump. this topic isnt much different than the matrix philosophy... although it is interesting i dont know if there is any educated way to support it without just saying pure bs my cachinnation my rhino