Evolution

[Sodfather]

Well, this thread was bound to come about, and who better to start it than me? A lot of people? Well, I guess you're right...

Anyway, I am a firm believer in Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution. Amazingly, a lot of people are not.

First off, I'll say why I believe in evolution. The following are the most convincing points that I remember from my past year of high school:

[color=red]Fossil Records[/color]

Fossils are indisputable evidence that organisms have changed over time. You can clearly observe that newer fossils still retain some characteristics of older fossil remains. The evolution of humans can actually be traced back precisely, from a monkey man-like ape to ape-like man to the Australopithecus to Neanderthals to Cromagnon to the modern-day homo sapiens. The next point is kind of related.

[color=red]Comparative Anatomy[/color]

When dealing with comparing the bones of organisms, two terms come into play: homologous and analogous. Bones that are homologous demonstrate that the two organisms have a common ancestry, and therefore support evolution, whereas ones that are analogous are only similiar in fucntion and do not support evolution. For example, a horse's leg and a dolphin's fin are homologous; the structure of each bone closely resembles te other's, suggesting that both the horse and the dolphin evolved from a common ancestor.

[color=red]Comparative Embryology[/color]

Sadly, I can't find any pictures on this, but some were contained in my textbook that demonstrates comparative embryology. The embryos of all organisms, whether they be humans or fish or crocodiles, start out looking identical, no difference at all. That is some very convincing evidence.

[color=red]Comparative Biochemistry[/color]

The most common instance of this is the near-100% similarity of human DNA and chimpanzee DNA. Common ancestry can be determined by examining the DNA, proteins, and amino acids of two species.

So, that's all I have to say on that, or all I am willing to type. I'm sure someone will get into genetics and cross squares and what not. If so fine, if not then I guess that's fine too, but I'm sure as heck not doin' it. :)

[G. Adams]

This may sound arrogant in a very European way, but anyone who hasn't grown up and accepted Darwinian theory is kidding themselves. Bu..bu..but the bible..Bible shmible, I don't see no dinosaurs in genesis, and I was forced to read that damned book in my phil. and ethics class.

[Sodfather]

Yeah, you're right. Creationists are either too uneducated to help themselves or are very fundamentalist Christians/Jews. Evidences for evolution continue to pile up, and all there is to defend creationism is the fact that some ancient scribe said so (and a few trivial scientific arguments). :( Whena ll is said and done, the evidences for evolution easily outweigh those against evolution.

[fedfem]

I don't believe I have ever seen any evidence against evolution. Care to expand?

[Dislogic]

creationists need to go suck on some rocks*********

ok well that didnt make sense but seriously i dont see much an arguement forming here since i cant imagine someone not believing a FACT... well i mean its not a fact but there is enough eveidence to prove it is and it should be considered a fact so that the stupid creationists cant argue anymore.

[G. Adams]

EVIDENCE AGAINST EVOLUTION??!! The BIBLE is all the evidence ye should need. Repent sinner, or ye shall burn!!

You know I really wish that Christians would just read the Gospels, after all thats the only bit even nearly connected to Jesus, and they would see that Christianity is about being a groovey hippy-type person. Buddhists are more Christian than most Christians I know (except for the not worshipping a god bit...)

[fedfem]

I don't think it is fair to call Creationists "stupid". We must keep a spirit of debate. Perhaps someone will play devil's advocate for this one.

[G. Adams]

That'd be a hard job, its like arguing the world is flat.

To be fair, as long as Creationists arn't demanding to have Darwin out of of the syllabus and such they arn't doing any harm, and should be left to their eccentricities.

[Fallen Angel]

Darwin is reported to have said he thought he had got it all wrong, and interestingly enough died a converted christian.
Please don't mock my faith or call my book dammned,you would'nt have the guts to say that about the Koran.
The Muslims themselves revere the bible just after the Koran.
The good book says each day is as a thousand to God, so in creating the world each day could have been a billion years.
Alot of Christians take the beginning of the old testament literally word for word, and others like me believe it has a lot of hidden meanings.
Personally I think God created evolution, for us to assume with all of our modern technology that we now think we know everything , when we don't really have a clue about much at all is the height of arrogance.
I have more respect for an Amazonian tribal member who believes in Shamanism because he/she has a greater understanding of their place in relationship to God, whether they know him or not.

[fedfem]

The "Darwin deathbed conversion" story seems to be a fabrication.
http://www.creationtruth.com/articles/didcdrecant.htm

The Creation/Evolution debate seems to have a middle ground, "Intelligent Design".

Evolutionary Science is based on facts and much of Darwin's theory has been proven.

Creation Science is based on the Bible and Faith(which is fine). It does not belong in the school curriculum.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

I do not currently accept either one. I do admit that large sections of evolution do make logical sense, but there are still plenty of holes to drive trucks through.

[Fallen Angel]

The modern public school system is a noncaring one, most of the teachers over here seem more intent on now incouraging socialism than teaching the three R's,
and if you don't think the bible has any place in the curriculum, then at least let children have the option of deciding on its teachings for themselves, without any biased anti-christian imput from the teachers .

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Fallen Angel
If you wish to use terms like "over here" could you put your country in your bio, mention it in the post, or at the very least post in the "getting to know you" topic and mention where the frig you are??

Where in the heck is "over here".

[fedfem]

I disagree with you as far as Public Education. Parents can teach or read the Bible to our children or send them to a church study.

As far as evolution having big holes....could you give me an example?

[Fallen Angel]

I never said evolution didnt happen, I just wonder why there is so much angst, whenever someone is supporting word for word what the bible teaches, its seems to be more guided at destabilising JesusChrist and his ministry than how we all got here, whether we crawled out of the primieval soup or woke up in a beautiful garden isnt really that important, what is important is how we see ourselves in relation to God, I think the ultimate lesson may be we are not as great as we think we are, and unabased humility and respect is the only true answer.
Great Wyrm, sorry I'll put my personals in later.

[Nicole]

First off, I think the individuals who want to bash Creationalists need to grow up themselves. You don't need to insult to make your point.

I prescribe to the Bible and what it teaches- Creation. This is a faith-based belief, yes.

However, evolution is also. There are many things that just do not add up. To me, this also is a faith-based system. You are just believing in a mortal man in this case and somehow that seems to make some feel more secure.

I think it's wrong that evolution has been accepted to some without dispute. Creation to me is the only explanation. You can not believe in it all you want to, that's your perrogative. But I don't believe evolution can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt and I will put my trust in God rather than a man.

[Fallen Angel]

Well said brother.

[fedfem]

I agree the bashing is uncalled for.

I do not see how science can be considered faith-based. The things taught are provable. There is no man--mortal or immortal--involved in understanding the evolutionary process.

I hope nobody accepts evolution without dispute--it is the schools job to teach critical thinking and the process of testing evolutionary processes.

There are still many points left to be proven or disproven in the theory. That is the point of theoretics.

It is hard to debate a subject if no specifics are presented. I was hoping to deal with the second law of thermodynamics.lol

[G. Adams]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. However its just difficult for me, especially growing up in a cynical, science accepting family, to see how people can ignore facts and logic. 2+2=4 whatever the bible/koran/torah/vedas etc say. And though Darwin is a theory, it is so well qualified now that it seems like people are closing their eyes and sticking fingers in their ears not to believe. I am not attacking any of the Judeo-Christian religions, I just don't see why people still believe in that bit. The times when Genesis stories came about lacked the knowledge we have today. They explained the world in their ways, and it suited them. We don't need to believe it today when we have a better proved theory.

Its like original sin. All humanity is damned because Adam was damned, and we were all literally there, in his semen, thus we are damned too. From this more things were damned as evil, like masturbation, because it was believed it was as good as killing somebody to 'spill your seed'. But now we know that we were not all there seminally at the fall of humanity, thus all following logic is mooted.

[Sodfather]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon@Sep 1 2003, 12:35 AM I do not currently accept either one. I do admit that large sections of evolution do make logical sense, but there are still plenty of holes to drive trucks through.

Sure, would you mind posting those "plenty of holes to drive trucks through?" :insert sarcastic emoticon here: