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Anarchist Patriot · Nov 30, 2003, 03:46 am

http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/evang...warcriminal.htm

Something to think about next time you hear some right wing holy roller politician yap about returning our nation to the Bible....

Joshua 6:20,21 RSV

20 So the people shouted, and the trumpets were blown. As soon as the people heard the sound of the trumpet, the people raised a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

21 Then they utterly destroyed utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses

Deuteronomy 2: 33-35 RSV

33 And the LORD our God gave him over to us; and we defeated him and his sons and all his people.

34 And we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed every city, men, women, and children; we left none remaining;

35 only the cattle we took as spoil for ourselves, with the booty of the cities which we captured.

Deuteronomy 20: 10-17

10 "When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it.

11 And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you.

Comment: Oh, so slavery is OK with Biblegod. The United States, when it defeated Japan and Germany, did NOT enslave them; it bettered them. Therefore, the USA has a higher moral standard than does Biblegod.

12 But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it;

13 and when the LORD your God gives it into your hand you shall put all its males to the sword,

14 but the women and the little ones, the cattle, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourselves; and you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the LORD your God has given you.

15 Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not cities of the nations here.

16 But in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes,

17 but you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the LORD your God has commanded;

Numbers 31: 1-18

1 The LORD said to Moses,

2 "Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites; afterward you shall be gathered to your people."

3 And Moses said to the people, "Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian, to execute the LORD's vengeance on Midian.

4 You shall send a thousand from each of the tribes of Israel to the war."

5 So there were provided, out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand from each tribe, together with Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, with the vessels of the sanctuary and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand.

7 They warred against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and slew every male.

8 They slew the kings of Midian with the rest of their slain, Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba, the five kings of Midian; and they also slew Balaam the son of Beor with the sword.

9 And the people of Israel took captive the women of Midian and their little ones; and they took as booty all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods.

10 All their cities in the places where they dwelt, and all their encampments, they burned with fire,

11 and took all the spoil and all the booty, both of man and of beast.

12 Then they brought the captives and the booty and the spoil to Moses, and to Eleazar the priest, and to the congregation of the people of Israel, at the camp on the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho.

13 Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the congregation, went forth to meet them outside the camp.

14 And Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war.

15 Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live?

16 Behold, these caused the people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and so the plague came among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.

18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

1st Samuel 15: 2,3 RSV

2 Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way, when they came up out of Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'"

__________________

cheesemage · Nov 30, 2003, 12:33 pm

Isn't this all old testament? Sort of making it irrelavant, since modern Christanity is mainly the focused on the New Testament?

Although those Politicians who want to return the country back to the Bible, are morons, seperation of church and state, a very important ideal, although it seems to be a weakening one.

Impenitent · Nov 30, 2003, 04:11 pm

Jesus said to his Jews: "The law was for slaves—love god as I love him, as his son! What concern is morality to the sons of god!"

Nietzsche BG&E 164

RebelWithanAK · Nov 30, 2003, 05:26 pm

Christianity takes both testaments to be the word of God. The new testament has the same parables, just cleaned up for taste. Not like it stopped the bloodshed, though *cough cough crusades cough* =p

hello_caleb · Jan 3, 2004, 11:16 am

its so classic to take bible verses out of context.

**Pooeypants** · Jan 3, 2004, 01:39 pm

Please elaborate.

lefty · Jan 8, 2004, 02:50 pm

Out of context? That is the actual text!!

castille · Jan 13, 2004, 07:55 am

Out of context means taking small chunks of text and only showing that small part to create false impressions.

For example, lets say we have the words "I hate people when they annoy me."

To take it out of context, just say "I hate people" and the meaning changes.

Clever tool of propagander experts, its been used since the beginning of history.

**Pooeypants** · Jan 13, 2004, 03:18 pm

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)
Out of context means taking small chunks of text and only showing that small part to create false impressions.

For example, lets say we have the words "I hate people when they annoy me."

To take it out of context, just say "I hate people" and the meaning changes.

Clever tool of propagander experts, its been used since the beginning of history.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
But the above quotes are in full...

Highwayman · Jan 31, 2004, 09:14 am

There is of course the little fact that God is a trinity- Father Son and Holy Ghost- all rolled into one, and one and the same thing.

So Jesus is as much the God of the old testament as he is himself.

Jesus, according to the Christian faith, was not newly created round about 2000 years ago, he was just send to planet earth.

Don't ask me why or how it works- I gave up on it long ago...

Highwayman · Jan 31, 2004, 09:20 am

Besides, those little genocidal expeditions is nothing compared to what will be done in the future- when all the billions of people who did not become christians will be judged and cast into a lake of fire to burn for eternity, yet not dying...

That kind of x-rated sadistic action is unparalleled even in human fiction... Koonz and King, learn from this!

Oh, did I mention that "God is love"?

Fjord Redd · Jan 31, 2004, 05:02 pm

God's ways are His own, who can stand against them? When the Israelites were coming into their land, the surrounding countries lived in rebellion to God. Because of this rebellion, and to keep this rebellion from entering into Israel, these countries were utterly destroyed.

Social laws like this are so foreign to our modern world that we can easily misunderstand and fear them. What Christians believe is that Jesus fulfilled all the ancient laws in our place, so we are no longer under those laws. Since we do not live in ancient Israel, all we can do is learn from them about God's character. In this case, I would say that we learn that God is rightous, powerful, and just.

Indeed God is love, but God is not infatuation. What loving parent does not discipline their child?

The bottom line is this: until the perfect government comes (which cannot happen now), the best alternitive is to live in a free land which allows people to make mistakes or prove their worth. This allows for people to prove their character and to freely decide beliefs. As a Christian, this is what I say to fellow Christians who feel that the United States should be a Christian institution.

Note: the perfect government is a benevolent dictatorship where the benevolent dictator has absolute power. the problem is there is no such thing on this earth as a benevolent dictator. but that is a political debate :)

i_am_a_n00bie · Feb 4, 2004, 05:34 am

Think about it like this... You and another person are standing in a metal room, and he has a gun. He doesn't like you, and takes a shot at you. He misses, and the bullet starts ricocheting around the room. To make one final attempt to try to get this person to like you, you offer to stand in front of him, and take the ricocheting bullet for him. He denies you, saying "Oh, and by the way, you don't actually exist." The bullet hits him, and he dies.

The only real difference between Christians and non Christians, is that we accept that we won't survive on our own.

chicagoastronomer · Feb 10, 2004, 05:45 am

The "loving" God, has smited, destroyed, killed babies, banished women, sacrificed, slayed the innocent, favored the special, and damned the entire human race forever into pain, suffering and agony.

Nope, it is a man-made created entity. Man's biased dirty hand is all over the "scriptures". No divine intervention here.

Streets paved with Gold in heaven or 47 Virgins awaiting...naw...just in the simple mind of man.

NEXT!!

Feb 10, 2004, 07:33 am

God is not a person, but a spirit, surrounds everyone. You're not going to get any help from it or answered prayers either. When you leave this planet, you become part of it, as you were before you were born. The spirt as best described is more powerful than you know, it is tapping into that spirt that wil make us all great one day. But the way things are going lately.. it is going to be a very very long time if any before we get there, turtle race to the gates..

Nov 30, 2003, 04:11 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	Jesus said to his Jews: "The law was for slaves—love god as I love him, as his son! What concern is morality to the sons of god!" Nietzsche BG&E 164 "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Nov 30, 2003, 05:26 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Christianity takes both testaments to be the word of God. The new testament has the same parables, just cleaned up for taste. Not like it stopped the bloodshed, though cough cough crusades cough =p . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Jan 3, 2004, 01:39 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,549	Please elaborate. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Jan 13, 2004, 07:55 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Out of context means taking small chunks of text and only showing that small part to create false impressions. For example, lets say we have the words "I hate people when they annoy me." To take it out of context, just say "I hate people" and the meaning changes. Clever tool of propagander experts, its been used since the beginning of history. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jan 13, 2004, 03:18 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,549	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,) Out of context means taking small chunks of text and only showing that small part to create false impressions. For example, lets say we have the words "I hate people when they annoy me." To take it out of context, just say "I hate people" and the meaning changes. Clever tool of propagander experts, its been used since the beginning of history.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> But the above quotes are in full... War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Nov 30, 2003, 03:46 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Anarchist Patriot Molten Ash Posts: 143	http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/evang...warcriminal.htm Something to think about next time you hear some right wing holy roller politician yap about returning our nation to the Bible.... Joshua 6:20,21 RSV 20 So the people shouted, and the trumpets were blown. As soon as the people heard the sound of the trumpet, the people raised a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. 21 Then they utterly destroyed utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses Deuteronomy 2: 33-35 RSV 33 And the LORD our God gave him over to us; and we defeated him and his sons and all his people. 34 And we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed every city, men, women, and children; we left none remaining; 35 only the cattle we took as spoil for ourselves, with the booty of the cities which we captured. Deuteronomy 20: 10-17 10 "When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. 11 And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you. Comment: Oh, so slavery is OK with Biblegod. The United States, when it defeated Japan and Germany, did NOT enslave them; it bettered them. Therefore, the USA has a higher moral standard than does Biblegod. 12 But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it; 13 and when the LORD your God gives it into your hand you shall put all its males to the sword, 14 but the women and the little ones, the cattle, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourselves; and you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the LORD your God has given you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not cities of the nations here. 16 But in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the LORD your God has commanded; Numbers 31: 1-18 1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites; afterward you shall be gathered to your people." 3 And Moses said to the people, "Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian, to execute the LORD's vengeance on Midian. 4 You shall send a thousand from each of the tribes of Israel to the war." 5 So there were provided, out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand from each tribe, together with Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, with the vessels of the sanctuary and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand. 7 They warred against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and slew every male. 8 They slew the kings of Midian with the rest of their slain, Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba, the five kings of Midian; and they also slew Balaam the son of Beor with the sword. 9 And the people of Israel took captive the women of Midian and their little ones; and they took as booty all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods. 10 All their cities in the places where they dwelt, and all their encampments, they burned with fire, 11 and took all the spoil and all the booty, both of man and of beast. 12 Then they brought the captives and the booty and the spoil to Moses, and to Eleazar the priest, and to the congregation of the people of Israel, at the camp on the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho. 13 Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the congregation, went forth to meet them outside the camp. 14 And Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15 Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? 16 Behold, these caused the people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and so the plague came among the congregation of the LORD. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. 1st Samuel 15: 2,3 RSV 2 Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way, when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'" __________________

Nov 30, 2003, 12:33 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
cheesemage Molten Ash Posts: 57	Isn't this all old testament? Sort of making it irrelavant, since modern Christanity is mainly the focused on the New Testament? Although those Politicians who want to return the country back to the Bible, are morons, seperation of church and state, a very important ideal, although it seems to be a weakening one.

Jan 3, 2004, 11:16 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
hello_caleb Sedimentary Rock Posts: 13	its so classic to take bible verses out of context.

Jan 8, 2004, 02:50 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
lefty Sedimentary Rock Posts: 17	Out of context? That is the actual text!!

Jan 31, 2004, 09:14 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Highwayman Molten Ash Posts: 34	There is of course the little fact that God is a trinity- Father Son and Holy Ghost- all rolled into one, and one and the same thing. So Jesus is as much the God of the old testament as he is himself. Jesus, according to the Christian faith, was not newly created round about 2000 years ago, he was just send to planet earth. Don't ask me why or how it works- I gave up on it long ago...

Jan 31, 2004, 09:20 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Highwayman Molten Ash Posts: 34	Besides, those little genocidal expeditions is nothing compared to what will be done in the future- when all the billions of people who did not become christians will be judged and cast into a lake of fire to burn for eternity, yet not dying... That kind of x-rated sadistic action is unparalleled even in human fiction... Koonz and King, learn from this! Oh, did I mention that "God is love"?

Jan 31, 2004, 05:02 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Fjord Redd Sedimentary Rock Location: United States Posts: 5	God's ways are His own, who can stand against them? When the Israelites were coming into their land, the surrounding countries lived in rebellion to God. Because of this rebellion, and to keep this rebellion from entering into Israel, these countries were utterly destroyed. Social laws like this are so foreign to our modern world that we can easily misunderstand and fear them. What Christians believe is that Jesus fulfilled all the ancient laws in our place, so we are no longer under those laws. Since we do not live in ancient Israel, all we can do is learn from them about God's character. In this case, I would say that we learn that God is rightous, powerful, and just. Indeed God is love, but God is not infatuation. What loving parent does not discipline their child? The bottom line is this: until the perfect government comes (which cannot happen now), the best alternitive is to live in a free land which allows people to make mistakes or prove their worth. This allows for people to prove their character and to freely decide beliefs. As a Christian, this is what I say to fellow Christians who feel that the United States should be a Christian institution. Note: the perfect government is a benevolent dictatorship where the benevolent dictator has absolute power. the problem is there is no such thing on this earth as a benevolent dictator. but that is a political debate :)

Feb 4, 2004, 05:34 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
i_am_a_n00bie Sedimentary Rock Posts: 23	Think about it like this... You and another person are standing in a metal room, and he has a gun. He doesn't like you, and takes a shot at you. He misses, and the bullet starts ricocheting around the room. To make one final attempt to try to get this person to like you, you offer to stand in front of him, and take the ricocheting bullet for him. He denies you, saying "Oh, and by the way, you don't actually exist." The bullet hits him, and he dies. The only real difference between Christians and non Christians, is that we accept that we won't survive on our own.

Feb 10, 2004, 05:45 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
chicagoastronomer Sedimentary Rock Posts: 22	The "loving" God, has smited, destroyed, killed babies, banished women, sacrificed, slayed the innocent, favored the special, and damned the entire human race forever into pain, suffering and agony. Nope, it is a man-made created entity. Man's biased dirty hand is all over the "scriptures". No divine intervention here. Streets paved with Gold in heaven or 47 Virgins awaiting...naw...just in the simple mind of man. NEXT!! <span style='color:blue'>"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"...</span> Oscar Wilde 1854-1900

Feb 10, 2004, 07:33 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
CitizenCOP Guest Posts: n/a	God is not a person, but a spirit, surrounds everyone. You're not going to get any help from it or answered prayers either. When you leave this planet, you become part of it, as you were before you were born. The spirt as best described is more powerful than you know, it is tapping into that spirt that wil make us all great one day. But the way things are going lately.. it is going to be a very very long time if any before we get there, turtle race to the gates..