crucified woman

[Conan]

Quote by: Jack "Our" refers to Electric Hermit and myself, since we appear to agree on this topic. I don't claim to speak for anyone else. That would be presumptuous and egotistical.

Well whoever, your vastly outnumbered so you would be wise to show some respect.

I don't hate fictional characters.

Hes not fictional, he wasnt created by Charles Dickens, he existed, he was a man, the son of God.

You're fully entitled to your perceptions, as are we. By introducing it as a debate topic you invite contrary opinions.

Insulting would be a bit more like it, than contrary I think.

Nope, I'm all for insulting Islam or any other brand of theism when it's appropriate. The fact that Islamists have tried to get "blasphemy" considered an international crime makes me want to blaspheme even more.

Brave words Jack, brave words.

[Conan]

Quote by: Jack Perhaps a Christian forum would have been a better venue, where you'd be assured of only agreement. Volconvo is not the place to post opinions that can't withstand criticism.

Theres nothing wrong with criticism, but there is with rudeness, and I dont have to bother further with that as explained, any more similar drivel will just be ignored from here.

[Dan_77]

I don't understand your outrage Conan.

Many people were crucified, many in the same way as Jesus. The account in the Bible even says that Jesus was crucified in the middle of two other men on crosses just like him.

The symbol of crucifixtion is an extremely powerful representation of suffering. I don't see how he's provoking "Christianity" at all.

In fact the story (you conveniently didn't link to) has the sculptor giving a somewhat different account of the events:

Sculptor Mitch Mitchell said it was meant to portray women's suffering. Mitchell, known for his sculptures of sporting heroes, defended the work. "It is the duty of an artist to question society's beliefs in religion and to test people about those beliefs, which this sculpture will do," he said. "I've travelled through 35 countries and found down-trodden women in them all."

Seems pretty clear to me. He seems to be saying that, despite the teachings of Jesus and other holy figures, women have suffered and continue to suffer throughout our world. That's certainly a meaningful message regardless of whether or not I agree with it.

I really don't see what the problem is. By addressing it as you have and becoming so angry in response to other posts, you have really given it far more attention than a mediocre artist is due.

In direct response to your OP, I don't see the sculptor as being arrogant, I don't see him as not "daring" to "insult" Islam, and I don't see the gallery as insulting to Christians at all.

Perhaps you should look inward and see what caused you to have such a drastic response to this sculpture and the other responses on this thread.

[Conan]

Quote by: tivodan1116 I don't understand your outrage Conan. Many people were crucified, many in the same way as Jesus. The account in the Bible even says that Jesus was crucified in the middle of two other men on crosses just like him. The symbol of cr sponse to other posts, you have really given it far more attention than a mediocre artist is due. In direct response to your OP, I don't see the sculptor as being arrogant, I don't see him as not "daring" to "insult" Islam, and I don't see the gallery as insulting to Christians at all. Perhaps you should look inward and see what caused you to have such a drastic response to this sculpture and the other responses on this thread.

Im not anywhere as near as outraged or angry as you hope, I'm offended yes, and disgusted by some of the fecicious comments here, but nowhere near angry as you would like to believe, if anything Im a bit sleepy sorry to burst your bubble.
Whether the artist wants to mask his crass insult here as something pretenciously noble as the degradation of all women during the last 2000 years, the woman is naked, and very sexualised, which goes against Christs teachings in respecting women.
Again it is offensive to us Christians because we believe only Jesus should be portrayed on a cross in sculpture, or any art, unless you can provide me with some info on another famous person crucified, and also the figure head of a major religon?

[Electric Hermit]

Quote by: Conan yeah how dare we get offended by *rseholes like this guy mocking our faith, naughty evil christians!

Did you even bother to read the article? Or did you just go straight into pompously indignant mode? The sculpture represents the suffering of women.

But supposing he was mocking your faith. Primitive superstitions are not exempt just because you stick a label on them saying "RELIGION".

[Dan_77]

Quote by: Conan Im not anywhere as near as outraged or angry as you hope, I'm offended yes, and disgusted by some of the fecicious comments here, but nowhere near angry as you would like to believe, if anything Im a bit sleepy sorry to burst your bubble. Whether the artist wants to mask his crass insult here as something pretenciously noble as the degradation of all women during the last 2000 years, the woman is naked, and very sexualised, which goes against Christs teachings in respecting women. Again it is offensive to us Christians because we believe only Jesus should be portrayed on a cross in sculpture, or any art, unless you can provide me with some info on another famous person crucified, and also the figure head of a major religon?

But it's not offensive to me.

Why would I have to provide info on another famous person crucified? Any student of history knows that thousands of people were executed in such a manner. It's a powerful symbol of an extremely horrible and painful death.

I don't think it is at all accurate to say that Christians "own" the symbol of the cross any more than it is accurate to say any person who draws a star means to invoke Judaism, or any person who draws a moon invokes Islam.

Why do you believe "only" Jesus should be portrayed on a cross? And what is your source of that belief? Certainly not the Bible since, as I pointed out earlier, the Bible itself mentions other people being crucified.

Incidentally, I don't see any "ferocious" responses here, either. Nothing more than the usual level of religion-bashing I've come to expect from the responders in this thread. While I find the behavior distasteful for other reasons, I certainly wouldn't say it's out of line for what someone who (as you) has in excess of 500 posts should expect here.

[Electric Hermit]

Quote by: Conan Seeing as it has been the most famous image of our faith for the last 2000 years, it kind of does son.

Did you get a little woody when you used the diminutive? I bet you did. Go on! Admit it! You got a wee thrill.

[Conan]

Quote by: Electric Hermit Did you even bother to read the article? Or did you just go straight into pompously indignant mode? The sculpture represents the suffering of women. But supposing he was mocking your faith. Primitive superstitions are not exempt just because you stick a label on them saying "RELIGION".

give it a rest mate, it got boring ages ago.

[Conan]

Quote by: Electric Hermit Did you get a little woody when you used the diminutive? I bet you did. Go on! Admit it! You got a wee thrill.

if you say so.

[Electric Hermit]

Quote by: Conan because he probably doesnt want to spend the rest of his life hiding in constant fear, from a fatwa being put on him. Salman Rushdie..hellooooooo??

You are aware that this is no more than your assumption, aren't you? On the basis of no evidence whatsoever? But then, such silliness should come easily to someone who believes the world was magicked into existence by a big wizard in the sky.

[Electric Hermit]

Quote by: Conan 'our' lol Im speaking on behalf of millions of insulted Christians, your speaking on behalf of a few posters. You lose.

I suppose if you're going to be an arrogant buffoon you might as well do it in style. Well done!

[Electric Hermit]

Quote by: Conan already explained, go back and read. The sad obsession is a valid and perfectly true point, your just trying to dodge the truth here, but thats nothing unusual with Christ haters I guess.

Still no explanation. No surprise!

I leave hatred to the religious fanatics. You're the experts.

Quote by: Conan Seeing as you must be ignorant on this, its insulting to Christians because it mocks Christ being on the cross...

How can it mock your prophet when it doesn't even portray him? It's a sculpture of a woman being crucified. It represents the suffering of women. Your creed does not have exclusive rights to depictions of crucifixion. No matter how much you revel in such images of torture.

[Conan]

QUOTE=tivodan1116;609375]But it's not offensive to me.

Well thats probably because your not a Christian, therefore you dont really count for much here on whether its offensive or not.

Why would I have to provide info on another famous person crucified? Any student of history knows that thousands of people were executed in such a manner. It's a powerful symbol of an extremely horrible and painful death.

Its only a powerful symbol because Christ dying on it made it so.
Thousands of people crucified yes, but how many were made into the figurehead of a major religon?

I don't think it is at all accurate to say that Christians "own" the symbol of the cross any more than it is accurate to say any person who draws a star means to invoke Judaism, or any person who draws a moon invokes Islam.

We dont own it, it owns us.
A star, well if its a Judaic star then it is Judaism and if its a crescent moon, then its Islam.

Why do you believe "only" Jesus should be portrayed on a cross? And what is your source of that belief? Certainly not the Bible since, as I pointed out earlier, the Bible itself mentions other people being crucified.

Because he is an extremely important person to hundreds of millions of people, now and in the past.

Incidentally, I don't see any "ferocious" responses here, either. Nothing more than the usual level of religion-bashing I've come to expect from the responders in this thread. While I find the behavior distasteful for other reasons, I certainly wouldn't say it's out of line for what someone who (as you) has in excess of 500 posts should expect here.

I expected as much, the usual petty christ bashing, from jaded intellectuals with a lot in their heads but nothing much in their hearts.
I dont recall saying ferocious, just the usual boring crap from christ haters.

[Electric Hermit]

Quote by: Conan give it a rest mate, it got boring ages ago.

Seems you're not prepared to put much effort into defending your religious cult against the "ferocious" onslaught of the infidels.

Am I on your list yet?

[Conan]

Quote by: Electric Hermit You are aware that this is no more than your assumption, aren't you? On the basis of no evidence whatsoever? But then, such silliness should come easily to someone who believes the world was magicked into existence by a big wizard in the sky.

lol your a good one to talk about silliness, no evidence??
Tell that to all the people who have to be protected 24/7 from muslim fanatics when they offended the prophet in even the slightest way, where have you been for the last twenty- thirty years?
Danish cartoons hellooooooo... anyone therrreeeee..????

[Conan]

Quote by: Electric Hermit Seems you're not prepared to put much effort into defending your religious cult against the "ferocious" onslaught of the infidels. Am I on your list yet?

Well if I was a muslim you would be.

[Conan]

=Electric Hermit;609382] I leave hatred to the religious fanatics. You're the experts.

lol look whos talking.

How can it mock your prophet when it doesn't even portray him? It's a sculpture of a woman being crucified. It represents the suffering of women. Your creed does not have exclusive rights to depictions of crucifixion. No matter how much you revel in such images of torture.

crucified in a very christ like pose, and regardless no one should be portaryed as crucified anyway, especiallyin such a sexualised way, because its very insulting to our faith, you mighten care but over a billion people do, so take that into account or you are a fool.

[Jack]

Well whoever, your vastly outnumbered so you would be wise to show some respect.

That's a rather bully/thug response. Sorry, I respect those who earn respect. I've been known to be especially aggravating to those who demand respect because they think they are bigger or badder than me. I don't respect religion or its beliefs as it has shown no respect for humans outside its walls.

[Cruella]

Please try to debate the topic without resorting to personal attacks.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[Conan]

Quote by: Jack That's a rather bully/thug response. Sorry, I respect those who earn respect. I've been known to be especially aggravating to those who demand respect because they think they are bigger or badder than me. I don't respect religion or its beliefs as it has shown no respect for humans outside its walls.

bigger or badder than you eh, sounds like you have abit of an ego hey hey.
No respect for humans?
Tell that to all the charitys and missionarys who give their time, often unpaid and sometimes loose their lives helping in third world countrys, and our countrys too.