Why I think Christianity is bull.

[SlanderCage]

Sorry, to you Bible tumpers, but I have to let it out.

I see Christians commit contradictory acts every day, despite their beliefs.

It's like I'm stuck in a neverending spiral of stupidity. 90% chance someone will respond to this and say:

" Well Slander, you just haven't found Jesus yet."

I'll tell you my religion, and that is realism. Realists are a group of very select people who refuse to listen to the crap out of other's mouths. We are the people who truly dictate what we do.

We see things for what they are, not for what some higher power makes it out to be.

I don't need a book, or a chest of stone tablets to give me good guidelines for life. I am human, and with that comes conscience.

The most obvious reason as to why Christianity is bullsh*t, is because the stupidest things have happened in the name of it.

The Crusades

A pointless series of wars, that lead to suffering of thousands. It went back and forth over hundreds of years, always coming to a standstill. Yet the Pope kept insisting, so they kept going back.

Most of you have probably never heard of the Childrens' Crusade. This was a forced march of over 10,000 children, most not even teenagers. By the time they arrived in the Holy Land, they were so weak and malnourished, that the Arabs slaughtered them all. They thought faith would protect them, yet it did not.

The Spanish Inquisition

This is when Christian "Inquisitors" went from house to house, determining people's faith. If they didn't meet standards, they were executed. Not to mention, corrupt clergy used this as a chance to get rid of their enemies.

The Slaughter of the Knights Templar

This pisses me off more than anything, as this is quite possibly the most horrible thing Christianity has to answer for. The Knights Templar were essentially the Holy warriors of the Crusades. After countless years of service, they were repaid by being murdered and tortured by none other than fellow Christians. If I spent years in service to God, only to be attacked by God's servants, I would drop that faith immediately.

And I have one more point to make.

The Condemning of Galileo

The dumbest thing Christians are responsible for, is their slandering of Galileo. The man is responsible for most of our modern ideas on space, and yet they couldn't accept the fact that he was right, even when he slapped them in the face with truth. Galileo lived hundreds of years ago, and it wasn't untill the 1990's that the Catholic Church admitted he was right. Way to go, you arrogant bastards.

" Sorry we destroyed your life, and that you're not here to accept our apology."

Most Christians attack other religions too. It's ridiculous.

My synopsis: Christianity is bull sh*t.

[Aristotle]

I'll try to provide a few modest answers.

Sorry, to you Bible tumpers, but I have to let it out. I see Christians commit contradictory acts every day, despite their beliefs.It's like I'm stuck in a neverending spiral of stupidity. 90% chance someone will respond to this and say:" Well Slander, you just haven't found Jesus yet."

I agree with your first statement in the sense that Ghandi believes that Christians are contradictory. He says, I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Ghandi's conclusion was not that he was stuck in a spiral of stupidity though, he instead chose to lead by his own example. I agree that there are Christians who do not live like Christ, that however, does not lead one to concluded that the tenets of Christianity and the beliefs of Christ are "bullsh*t" by association.

I'll tell you my religion, and that is realism. Realists are a group of very select people who refuse to listen to the crap out of other's mouths. We are the people who truly dictate what we do. We see things for what they are, not for what some higher power makes it out to be. I don't need a book, or a chest of stone tablets to give me good guidelines for life. I am human, and with that comes conscience.

I agree with you that realism is an important part of a rational world view, however in a world where subjectivism has become the dominant perspective I would challenge you to define what is "real" or even to explain what you do use to support your realist perspective? Do you not use books as well? Advice? I think that realism, while important, is not the be all end all of the discussion of theology.

The most obvious reason as to why Christianity is bullsh*t, is because the stupidest things have happened in the name of it.

The Crusades
The Spanish Inquisition
The Slaughter of the Knights Templar
The Condemning of Galileo

All of these occurances were done by the Catholic Church. While I agree that these are mistakes that the Catholic Church must recognize and try and refrain from, I think it is silly for you to call all of Christianity "bullsh*t" by arguing the faults of Catholics alone. There are many other denominations of Christianity who would be offended by such claims.

And as a quick note, In the name of "Democracy" the United States has made quite a few blunders in both foreign and domestic policy. But why is it that we still hold true to the tenets of Equality, Justice, and Freedom? Because we know that even though humans make mistakes, that does not make things like Equality any less desirable. I believe the same is true with Christianity.

[Jack]

<Moderation note>
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</Moderation note>

[do not respond]

[Whatssnew]

Faith is like love. There is no way to prove the presence or lack of love. You simply have faith in it because the evidence compels you to believe it is so. However just like with love there are those who are insecure, doubting, cynical, or just all-around terd-heads. So the question is what evidence must be present to convince you of God.

[marlene]

faith is like love

Equally deluded. Love is just a mixture of self-interest and neurochemicals. We are programmed that way to ensure the perennity of the species.

R.

[SlanderCage]

Faith is like love. There is no way to prove the presence or lack of love. You simply have faith in it because the evidence compels you to believe it is so. However just like with love there are those who are insecure, doubting, cynical, or just all-around terd-heads. So the question is what evidence must be present to convince you of God.

But show me why one should believe in God? Basically, Christianity scares you into doing good, rather than doing it of your own volition.

I don't need the Bible to tell me not to kill, I can dictate that on my own. Nothing in the Christian faith can't be taught with actual life lessons.

Part of me wonders what the world would be like without religion, and though I will admit that it would have less meaning for people, since the one obvious thing faith does is give hope and a reason to live, it woudl not be much different. Organized religion is much like ideologies. They have a system, a set of beliefs, and a world leader.

The problem is faith isn't about faith anymore, it's about furthering their agenda's. I can't believe in narcissists.

[GeminiBrian]

Equally deluded. Love is just a mixture of self-interest and neurochemicals. We are programmed that way to ensure the perennity (sic?) of the species.

I, personally, don't care a hoot about the survival of the human species, blight on the planet that we have become, but I retain the right to become neurochemically involved with whoever I choose - thank you...

[Harry098]

But show me why one should believe in God? Basically, Christianity scares you into doing good, rather than doing it of your own volition.

I don't need the Bible to tell me not to kill, I can dictate that on my own. Nothing in the Christian faith can't be taught with actual life lessons.

Part of me wonders what the world would be like without religion, and though I will admit that it would have less meaning for people, since the one obvious thing faith does is give hope and a reason to live, it woudl not be much different. Organized religion is much like ideologies. They have a system, a set of beliefs, and a world leader.

The problem is faith isn't about faith anymore, it's about furthering their agenda's. I can't believe in narcissists.

I would ask from where you would draw you morals from if this was the case. if you draw it from your instincts then I suggest you read C.S Lewis' book Christian Reflections particularly the chapter "On Ethics" he states it better then I could.

Cheers

[Jack]

And Christians who think only they are moral or that morals originated with the Bible should do some reading as well.

For example, say you're leaving a restaurant and you spot a ten dollar tip passing by a table.

The enticement of increased wealth without much effort sure is tempting. By simply extending your arm and inconspicuously grabbing the cash, you will be ten dollars richer. Since no one is looking, you won't get into trouble. Plus, the waiter probably wasn't expecting such a large tip anyway. Where's the harm in that?

In this case, a Christian or a Jew would point to the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not steal." According to the Christian/Jewish point-of-view, this alone will restrain a religiously devout individual from snatching the money off the table. This follows the rules of deontological ethics: Something is either always right or always wrong. For example, stealing the money off the table would be morally wrong because stealing is always wrong.

However, what if the commandment said "Thou shalt steal?" Would stealing be an absolute right then? Is all that is required is a recommendation from a centuries-old text? How about the sixth commandment: "thou shalt not kill?" Does this rule apply with self-defense? Or war?

Here is the fundamental problem with static morals: the inability to judge every action we humans make with reason and free will. Shouldn't morals stand on their own merits? Humans are fantastic beings because of their ability to examine the consequences of their actions and make appropriate choices--as opposed to wild animals that act on instinct alone.

Therefore, morals do not come from religious tomes. Morals would exist nicely without them.

How can an atheist have morals?@Everything2.com

[Raastee]

I think christian dogma is the real problem, because if they are giving up their mind, their honesty, their virtue to dogma without examining it we have the conditions of 9/11 all over again. People will gladly give up thinking to get something beyond them self... they will gladly kill for it too and call it good, just and right.

You can find examples of that in the bible, Homosexuality and Civilization by Louis Crompton, The Age of Reason, by Thomas Paine, Voltaire Candide and other Stories, The Closing of the Western Mind, by Charles Freeman, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by Shirer, The Jesus Mysteries by Freke and Gandy, etc.

[GeminiBrian]

[QUOTE]

In this case, a Christian or a Jew would point to the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not steal." According to the Christian/Jewish point-of-view, this alone will restrain a religiously devout individual from snatching the money off the table. This follows the rules of deontological ethics: Something is either always right or always wrong. For example, stealing the money off the table would be morally wrong because stealing is always wrong.

I firmly belong in the teleological school of thought, as I suspect most atheists do.

That means that if a generally-approved rule is inapplicable in a certain context, it is intellectually dishonest to follow that rule, particularly if a negative result can be predicted with some certainty.

For instance, the old moral dilemma of whether or not to steal food to feed a starving family comes to mind as a straightforward example... Yes, it flies in the face of received morality re theft, but is outweighed by the more pressing ethical imperative to relieve suffering, IMO.

Simmilarly, in less obvious situations. I believe some rules are very neccessary for social cohesion - and unless there is a good reason to override them, they are best respected... However, the moment one becomes aware that such rules may, in fact, be directly counter-productive in a given situation - I hold that the truly aware person would follow his or her inner promptings, regardless, and break that rule.

Most people, I suspect, are more concerned not to disobey authoritarian strictures than any other motivation. This seems to be borne out by the sorts of psychological experiments we have all heard of, where unsuspecting volunteers are instructed by researchers in white coats (representing authority) to electrically shock a bunch of 'subjects' - who are, in fact, secretly actors, in on the experiment.

As the experiment progresses, and the volunteers are faced with an escalating dilemma as to whether to keep administering stronger shocks on command, it is seen quite clearly that the majority of the 'shockers' are more inclined to obey the researchers than to spare the 'victims' even extreme (though simulated) pain.

The point I'm making is that a blind obedience of rules usually indicates a person who is deficient in self-reliance, and in a sense, is more dangerous than the rule-breaker.

Does this apply more to the average theist than it does to the atheist?

Based on my observation of those posters on these fora who champion the infallibility of their holy book, whichever it may be, I would say, Yes, - that very much appears to be the case - even when the scripture in question is complete and utter 'bull' by any intelligent standard.

People need authority in their lives, it seems - and are lost without it. No wonder the bible has survived for well over 2000 years.

[Aristotle]

Equally deluded. Love is just a mixture of self-interest and neurochemicals. We are programmed that way to ensure the perennity of the species.

R.

The whole is often greater than the sum of its parts Marlene. We are not vulcans nor are we robots. Scientific explanations for the things we think and feel are appropriate for certain circumstances. For example if I asked you to describe one of Monet's paintings and you explained the chemical composition of the different pigments and their respective location in realation to the canvas would we think you have accurately and fully described the painting?

I should think not. What you have done is described a significant part of the paintings multi-faceted composition. I believe the poster to whom you responded as "deluded" was merely describing one aspect of faith, just as you described merely one aspect of love. Can we agree on this?

But show me why one should believe in God? Basically, Christianity scares you into doing good, rather than doing it of your own volition.

I'm curious what tenet of the Christian faith leads you to believe this. Christianity places a loving and benevolent God at the center of its faith and uses the teachings of Love and Forgiveness as espoused by Jesus and the fundemental function of Faith in God. At no point does this seem like a scare tactic to me. Could you clarify where you found the "fear" that Christianity uses?

I don't need the Bible to tell me not to kill, I can dictate that on my own. Nothing in the Christian faith can't be taught with actual life lessons.

I think there is a problem here. The point of Christian Faith is not to be independent of life lessons, it is supposed to incorporate and prescribe spriritual significance to life lessons. Seeing the innocence of a baby chick fresh from the egg is indeed a wonderful natural life lesson to respect all forms of life. Christianity does not try to contradict this or operate above it, but rather seeks to put the significance of God's love and the miracle of creation into the already stunning beauty of the baby chick. It seems almost mad to try to concieve Christianity and life lessons as two mutually exclusive beings. They must be one with one another.

The problem is faith isn't about faith anymore, it's about furthering their agenda's. I can't believe in narcissists.

I agree with you. Faith has taken a rough road from spirituality to a cultural icon. However, as I questioned you in the currently unanswered post #2 why is it that because of this degradation Christianity itself must be bullsh*t? You have not provided an adequate reason as to why the Faith itself is illogical and that my friend is what I really await to hear. :)