well, i'll tell ya what. if you try not to die in the next few years, i think you'll see that more and more people accept the plain logic of the deterministic argument. less and less people will accept the mythology of free will just as the mythology of god is going away.
the universe is made up of physical laws.
free will doesn't make sense.
also.. determinism is a better way to live. :)
You have a finite set of brain cell/chemical arrangements. Any two brains which are physically identical have the same thought content (unless you're some kind of mind-body dualist, which is awfully unscientific). So you have a finite number of possible thoughts/prefs at any given time.Quote by: Electric Hermit
Are you starting a new religion? Can I write the holy book? I have a giant mutant bee character that would just benefit from determinism.
Anyway, what you are trying to prove is a syllogism. Which is fine an sweet. I often hate syllogism given the amount of fallacies that come with them.
What you are stating is something you cannot ever prove, so quit it. I can tell you my giant mutant bee is in control of all your actions. Actually, taking this further, I will just state:
"My giant mutant bee is controlling you" - as it says in verse 2:3.2/012 of the "Bible of the giant mutant bee" (you should read it once I write it, it will be very authoritative and all that stuff).
So there, are you happy?
Give me a number.
Interesting. Could you send me some literature.
lol, i think spunk's my first troll on this board.
the syllogism is fallacy free. :)
it's valid. the only question left is whether it is sound.
I've demonstrated that you cannot choose your beliefs. Including your beliefs about what your greatest preference is in any given situation.
I've demonstrated that your actions are always in line with your current preference. If an action is not inline with your preferences, then it is an unchosen spasm, and hence still not freely chosen.
That's all any logician needs to know that the syllogism is air tight. :)
Notice:
Vegetarians prefer not to eat meat.. so they don't.
Meat eaters prefer to eat meat... so they do.
This isn't a coincidence. It's a law. You must act according to your preferences and that preference cannot be chosen. This means that you have no free will. Simple as that.
If you want to argue it, argue it.
but STATEMENTS like: "No, I can choose what i want" are not arguments.
spunk
as for the "way of life" comment. when you look at the world through a libertarian view things are different. for example:
Libertarian Society:
- blames people for things
- Punishes people for lack of compliance
- Believes in a mythological force that can somehow defy the laws of physics called "will power" and they depend on it to accomplish good things in the world.
While determinist society would:
- blame no one for anything.
- wouldn't waste time/money merely storing people in cells for actions that obviously could not have been avoided.
- understand that things get done when a) they are possible and when b) someone prefers to do them rather than not do them.
Determinists are realists. And yes, life feels better lived this way.
I prefer not to respond to such nonsense. But I have chosen to do so anyway.
And I have chosen not to do so again, whatever my future preferences might be.
Although I prefer to keep my options open.
You're being disingenuous.
Your preference is to respond, hermit. Why else would you do it?
If you are acting against your preferences, then you are certainly not acting by free will.
If you noticed an angry bear walked in the room and charged at you before you finished typing.. do you think you would still continue typing?
No, why? Because your preferences would have changed from "I prefer to write this crap" to "i prefer to run for my life rather than write this crap"
Don't blame me! I am but a puppet.
What's the payoff for not accepting the determinist position?
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