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Section 8 · Nov 18, 2003, 12:11 pm

I read an intertersting article about Jesus, and it reaffirmed my belief about him. Some points to consider.

1. Many other pagan religions had stories very similar to Jesus, and Jesus has relationships to ancient sun Gods. The religions believe that their savior was crucified and would return etc. This suggests that Jesus is just another myth, of ancient people searching for purpose.

2. The virgin Mary was also a myth commonly held by some pagan religions.

3. Jesus in the whale represents primitive man attempting to explain light and darkness.

4. Ancient historians of the time didn't refer to Jesus in their works.

5. They symbol of Jesus on the crucifix didn't appear 'till 800 years later.

G. Adams · Nov 18, 2003, 01:33 pm

Jesus in the whale? wasn't that jonah?

Can you put some links up for your assertions that pagans have stories similar to that of the Jesus stories please?

Section 8 · Nov 18, 2003, 01:39 pm

The article was in a book, sorry. I remebered watching a video in Africa about it, and yes it was Jonah I got screwed up. I'll search for links.

Sodfather · Nov 18, 2003, 04:04 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,)
4. Ancient historians of the time didn't refer to Jesus in their works.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Let me cite some passages from a straightforward yet accurate text (Jesus of History, Christ of Faith by Thomas Zanzig) that should make your source's author and yourself turn red in shame for that comment:

"Josephus, a Jewish historian, mentioned Jesus in his writings toward the end of the first century C.E., roughly sixty years after Jesus' death...Josephus identifies Jesus as a 'a wise man...a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of men who receive the truth with pleasure,' and he notes that Jesus was later condemned by Pilate to crucifixion."

In the above passage, note Jewish is a separate entity from Christian.

"The Roman historian Tacitus referred to Jesus in his account of a fire that burned Rome in the year 64 C.E., for which the emperor Nero supposedly blamed the Christians."

"[Pliny the Younger] wrote to the emperor Trajan for advice on what to do about the Christians The Roman officials were always concerned about the growth of any political or religious sect, and the Christian communities baffled them. Although Pliny's letter mentions Jesus, it offers no new information about him."

"In a discussion of the emperor Claudius, Seutonius says that Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome because of the riots they were constantly causing, 'on the instigation of Chrestus.' Though there is some debate over the word Chrestus, scholars generall agree it refers to Christ."

A charlatan on God's true will, perhaps - but a figment of the ancients' imaginations, certainly not.

cheesemage · Nov 18, 2003, 09:36 pm

Really though many parts of Christanity was changed during the council of Tripoli(I think this is the name of it), when the Romans adapted Christanity, many things about the religion were changed, Christmas for example is just a renaming of a holiday the Romans had already celebrating Apolo making the transition easier for Romans, thus that is why Christmas is not on Jesus brith (sometime in Spring I think, it is mentioned in the bible somewhere).

Sodfather · Nov 18, 2003, 11:14 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (cheesemage,)
Really though many parts of Christanity was changed during the council of Tripoli(I think this is the name of it)<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
We're talking sixty years after the death of Jesus; Rome was nowhere near accepting Christianity. Thus, the Roman historians are unbiased, reliable sources. Even Jose[hus, a Jew, can be viewed as unbiased: he had no reason to support Jesus' cause, he was Jewish.

fedfem · Nov 19, 2003, 02:01 am

The Sacrificed Son-of-God

The Sacrificed Son-of-God was a common figure in these times and places, his story being found under several different names: Dionysus, Tammuz, Attis, Adonis - and Iasius of course, for this is the Type of his story. The essential characteristics of the story are a Son-of-God, born of a virgin, tragically killed, but rising again, with his 'death' bringing fruitfulness to mankind.

Each different variant has some different local characteristics, consider one variant: that of Attis, the consort of the Phrygian Cybele. Attis was the Good Shepherd, in some versions the son of a Virgin Nana. The festival of his death and resurrection took place from March 22nd to 25th when a pine tree was felled and an effigy of Attis hung it - i.e. Attis is slain and hung on a tree (c.f. Acts V 30), after three days he rises again to much celebration, the initiates having their sins washed in blood and being thus "born again" [Weigall, Paganism in our Christianity]

The common or central symbols to this sacrificed son of god story included:

Wedding, Great Mother, Wine, Grain, Holy Child, Descent into Hell

http://members.iinet.net.au/~quentinj/Chri...ity/iasion.html

The Gospel Jesus and his story is equally missing from the non-Christian record of the time. Philo of Alexandria, the Jewish historian Justus of Tiberias, Pliny the Elder as collector of reputed natural phenomena, early Roman satirists and philosophers: all are silent. Pliny the Younger, in his letter to Trajan from Bithynia c.112, does not speak of Christ in historical terms. Josephus’ famous passage in Antiquities 18 is acknowledged to be, as it stands, a Christian interpolation, and arguments that an original reference to Jesus either stood there or can be distilled from the present one, founder on the universal silence about such a reference on the part of Christian commentators until the 4th century.2 As for the reference in Antiquities 20 to James as "brother of Jesus, the one called (the) Christ", this passage also bears the marks of Christian interference.3 The phrase originally used by Josephus may have been the same designation which Paul gives to James (Galatians 1:19), namely "brother of the Lord," which would have referred not to a sibling relationship with Jesus, but to James’ position in the Jerusalem brotherhood, something which was probably widely known. A Christian copyist could later have altered the phrase (under the influence of Matthew 1:16) to render it more "historical" after Jesus of Nazareth was developed.

http://www.jesuspuzzle.org/

hardright · Nov 19, 2003, 02:13 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,)

1. Many other pagan religions had stories very similar to Jesus, and Jesus has relationships to ancient sun Gods. The religions believe that their savior was crucified and would return etc. This suggests that Jesus is just another myth, of ancient people searching for purpose.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Hey. This is my first post here.

It's interesting that the same thing you think affirms your belief against Jesus is the very thing that has affirmed it for many Christians, including Chesterton, CS Lewis and Tolkien. They studied the ancient religious beliefs of all the great cultures, and they found a common desire among them all, which is redemption. You said it was their "purpose," I say exactly right! But it's also our purpose, too.

Interestingly the great cultures all embraced the same moral law (see the apendix to Lewis' Abolition of Man). I would assume they felt they broke this law, like all humans do, which would account for the myth of someone greater then themselves (a god such as Balder or Adonis or Bacchus) who dies for them and rises again. It was all about redemption. And it still is. ;)

Chesterton calls these myths "day-dreams." They were a "taste" of what would really happen. Lewis talks about such myths baptizing his imagination before he converted from atheism. The same with Chesterton. I think you are right to say that Christianity is a myth. The only difference is that it's a true myth, in that it actually happened in history. All the others were a taste of the reality to come.

Ciao!

castille · Nov 19, 2003, 07:02 am

If you don't like God, don't go to church.

Simple as that. You're worse than those crazy bible freaks who come knocking on my door....at least they leave when I ask them to.

Section 8 · Nov 19, 2003, 10:51 am

Sorry, Castille I strangely remember this a debate site.

Fugitivepoet, first off welcome. Secondly, I think that Christianity is just another attempt for ancient people to justify their life, do believe that they have a place to go where they die. To think that someone is watching out for them.

You bring up an interesting point, and I will probably read some C.S. Lewis in order to get a better point of view. On another note I highly suggest you read The Anti-Christ by Nietzsche. I believe fedfem posted the link in the basic nietzsche thread.

Impenitent · Nov 19, 2003, 12:50 pm

before you read the anti christ read the geneaology of morals and twilight of the idols...

http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechann...el/ntexteng.htm

mind you, these are not complete books, you'll have to visit the book store or library...

hardright · Nov 19, 2003, 01:50 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,)

You bring up an interesting point, and I will probably read some C.S. Lewis in order to get a better point of view. On another note I highly suggest you read The Anti-Christ by Nietzsche. I believe fedfem posted the link in the basic nietzsche thread.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

In addition to Lewis, check out Chesterton's book Everlasting Man. I'll look into Nietzsche's Anti-Christ, but I'm more of a Kierkegaardian myself.

Peace!

**Pooeypants** · Nov 19, 2003, 05:00 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (cheesemage,)
Really though many parts of Christanity was changed during the council of Tripoli(I think this is the name of it), when the Romans adapted Christanity, many things about the religion were changed, Christmas for example is just a renaming of a holiday the Romans had already celebrating Apolo making the transition easier for Romans, thus that is why Christmas is not on Jesus brith (sometime in Spring I think, it is mentioned in the bible somewhere).<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
And the date of Christmas was set on the birthdate of Mithra...a pagan god or something.

mustardplaster · Nov 20, 2003, 12:44 am

I can understand both point of views. I'm a Christian and I believe the bible maybe somewhat like Chinese whispers over the years has been changed and changed nd changed ever so slightly. So as for fact well that can be argued.

In the bible it says take these word with a child like spirit, as a child does. Could mean the general idea should be taken NOT analyzing and delving into what it could mean. Or it my suggest that just believe it like a child believes what its parents say. Hmmm in all I sort of think of it like "what was here a trillion years ago? and what will be here in a trillion years?" one thing is for certain it we will not be here. Something has to have created us/the universe/matter/thoughts.

As for no evidence of Christ for 800y well I'm sure I could find some, could not even start as it would open a can of searching worms and would never end...

Whale Jesus yes just the wrong way around. Mary a mith well no however the bible doesn't say she is holy so a faith claiming that is telling forkies, but again there could be evidence I have not researched it that much.

**Pooeypants** · Nov 20, 2003, 01:03 pm

Long live Mithra anyway.

Impenitent · Nov 20, 2003, 04:39 pm

I thought Godzilla kicked Mithra's ass...

**Pooeypants** · Nov 20, 2003, 05:47 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
I thought Godzilla kicked Mithra's ass...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Nah thats Mothra or something, big flappy thing.

Down · Nov 21, 2003, 03:32 am

In refernece to the similarities between Christianity and paganism, the main symbol for christmas is a tree, which strikes me as very pagan. Also, christmas is very close to the Winter Solstice (i think thats what it's called.) Correct me if I am wrong, it just strikes me as odd.

laserkid · Nov 21, 2003, 06:08 am

actually the main symbol for Christmas is the nativity - the tree is more of the secular side of it.

As for the day of it - it was set to the same day as a Roman festival before Rome adopted it and for a VERY good reason - if they're partying over Christmas - and it was another day Rome would come down on them and kill them - but its that same festival day so they assumed they were celebrating the same thing other romans were, its a very simple explanation.

As for christian stuff - C.S. Lewis' book "Mere Christianity" is an absolute MUST read if you even just want to understand Christianity.

Dec 5, 2003, 08:54 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
In refernece to the similarities between Christianity and paganism, the main symbol for christmas is a tree, which strikes me as very pagan. Also, christmas is very close to the Winter Solstice (i think thats what it's called.) Correct me if I am wrong, it just strikes me as odd.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

this is an interesting site about chrismas:
http://www.holidays.net/christmas/story.htm

i didnt know a lot of that!

Nov 18, 2003, 01:33 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	Jesus in the whale? wasn't that jonah? Can you put some links up for your assertions that pagans have stories similar to that of the Jesus stories please? Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Nov 18, 2003, 04:04 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,) 4. Ancient historians of the time didn't refer to Jesus in their works.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Let me cite some passages from a straightforward yet accurate text (Jesus of History, Christ of Faith by Thomas Zanzig) that should make your source's author and yourself turn red in shame for that comment: "Josephus, a Jewish historian, mentioned Jesus in his writings toward the end of the first century C.E., roughly sixty years after Jesus' death...Josephus identifies Jesus as a 'a wise man...a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of men who receive the truth with pleasure,' and he notes that Jesus was later condemned by Pilate to crucifixion." In the above passage, note Jewish is a separate entity from Christian. "The Roman historian Tacitus referred to Jesus in his account of a fire that burned Rome in the year 64 C.E., for which the emperor Nero supposedly blamed the Christians." "[Pliny the Younger] wrote to the emperor Trajan for advice on what to do about the Christians The Roman officials were always concerned about the growth of any political or religious sect, and the Christian communities baffled them. Although Pliny's letter mentions Jesus, it offers no new information about him." "In a discussion of the emperor Claudius, Seutonius says that Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome because of the riots they were constantly causing, 'on the instigation of Chrestus.' Though there is some debate over the word Chrestus, scholars generall agree it refers to Christ." A charlatan on God's true will, perhaps - but a figment of the ancients' imaginations, certainly not.

Nov 18, 2003, 11:14 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (cheesemage,) Really though many parts of Christanity was changed during the council of Tripoli(I think this is the name of it)<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> We're talking sixty years after the death of Jesus; Rome was nowhere near accepting Christianity. Thus, the Roman historians are unbiased, reliable sources. Even Jose[hus, a Jew, can be viewed as unbiased: he had no reason to support Jesus' cause, he was Jewish.

Nov 19, 2003, 02:13 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
hardright Sedimentary Rock Posts: 6	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,) 1. Many other pagan religions had stories very similar to Jesus, and Jesus has relationships to ancient sun Gods. The religions believe that their savior was crucified and would return etc. This suggests that Jesus is just another myth, of ancient people searching for purpose. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Hey. This is my first post here. It's interesting that the same thing you think affirms your belief against Jesus is the very thing that has affirmed it for many Christians, including Chesterton, CS Lewis and Tolkien. They studied the ancient religious beliefs of all the great cultures, and they found a common desire among them all, which is redemption. You said it was their "purpose," I say exactly right! But it's also our purpose, too. Interestingly the great cultures all embraced the same moral law (see the apendix to Lewis' Abolition of Man). I would assume they felt they broke this law, like all humans do, which would account for the myth of someone greater then themselves (a god such as Balder or Adonis or Bacchus) who dies for them and rises again. It was all about redemption. And it still is. ;) Chesterton calls these myths "day-dreams." They were a "taste" of what would really happen. Lewis talks about such myths baptizing his imagination before he converted from atheism. The same with Chesterton. I think you are right to say that Christianity is a myth. The only difference is that it's a true myth, in that it actually happened in history. All the others were a taste of the reality to come. Ciao!

Nov 19, 2003, 07:02 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	If you don't like God, don't go to church. Simple as that. You're worse than those crazy bible freaks who come knocking on my door....at least they leave when I ask them to. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Nov 18, 2003, 12:11 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	I read an intertersting article about Jesus, and it reaffirmed my belief about him. Some points to consider. 1. Many other pagan religions had stories very similar to Jesus, and Jesus has relationships to ancient sun Gods. The religions believe that their savior was crucified and would return etc. This suggests that Jesus is just another myth, of ancient people searching for purpose. 2. The virgin Mary was also a myth commonly held by some pagan religions. 3. Jesus in the whale represents primitive man attempting to explain light and darkness. 4. Ancient historians of the time didn't refer to Jesus in their works. 5. They symbol of Jesus on the crucifix didn't appear 'till 800 years later.

Nov 18, 2003, 01:39 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	The article was in a book, sorry. I remebered watching a video in Africa about it, and yes it was Jonah I got screwed up. I'll search for links.

Nov 18, 2003, 09:36 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
cheesemage Molten Ash Posts: 57	Really though many parts of Christanity was changed during the council of Tripoli(I think this is the name of it), when the Romans adapted Christanity, many things about the religion were changed, Christmas for example is just a renaming of a holiday the Romans had already celebrating Apolo making the transition easier for Romans, thus that is why Christmas is not on Jesus brith (sometime in Spring I think, it is mentioned in the bible somewhere).

Nov 19, 2003, 02:01 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	The Sacrificed Son-of-God The Sacrificed Son-of-God was a common figure in these times and places, his story being found under several different names: Dionysus, Tammuz, Attis, Adonis - and Iasius of course, for this is the Type of his story. The essential characteristics of the story are a Son-of-God, born of a virgin, tragically killed, but rising again, with his 'death' bringing fruitfulness to mankind. Each different variant has some different local characteristics, consider one variant: that of Attis, the consort of the Phrygian Cybele. Attis was the Good Shepherd, in some versions the son of a Virgin Nana. The festival of his death and resurrection took place from March 22nd to 25th when a pine tree was felled and an effigy of Attis hung it - i.e. Attis is slain and hung on a tree (c.f. Acts V 30), after three days he rises again to much celebration, the initiates having their sins washed in blood and being thus "born again" [Weigall, Paganism in our Christianity] The common or central symbols to this sacrificed son of god story included: Wedding, Great Mother, Wine, Grain, Holy Child, Descent into Hell http://members.iinet.net.au/~quentinj/Chri...ity/iasion.html The Gospel Jesus and his story is equally missing from the non-Christian record of the time. Philo of Alexandria, the Jewish historian Justus of Tiberias, Pliny the Elder as collector of reputed natural phenomena, early Roman satirists and philosophers: all are silent. Pliny the Younger, in his letter to Trajan from Bithynia c.112, does not speak of Christ in historical terms. Josephus’ famous passage in Antiquities 18 is acknowledged to be, as it stands, a Christian interpolation, and arguments that an original reference to Jesus either stood there or can be distilled from the present one, founder on the universal silence about such a reference on the part of Christian commentators until the 4th century.2 As for the reference in Antiquities 20 to James as "brother of Jesus, the one called (the) Christ", this passage also bears the marks of Christian interference.3 The phrase originally used by Josephus may have been the same designation which Paul gives to James (Galatians 1:19), namely "brother of the Lord," which would have referred not to a sibling relationship with Jesus, but to James’ position in the Jerusalem brotherhood, something which was probably widely known. A Christian copyist could later have altered the phrase (under the influence of Matthew 1:16) to render it more "historical" after Jesus of Nazareth was developed. http://www.jesuspuzzle.org/

Nov 19, 2003, 10:51 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Sorry, Castille I strangely remember this a debate site. Fugitivepoet, first off welcome. Secondly, I think that Christianity is just another attempt for ancient people to justify their life, do believe that they have a place to go where they die. To think that someone is watching out for them. You bring up an interesting point, and I will probably read some C.S. Lewis in order to get a better point of view. On another note I highly suggest you read The Anti-Christ by Nietzsche. I believe fedfem posted the link in the basic nietzsche thread.

Nov 19, 2003, 12:50 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	before you read the anti christ read the geneaology of morals and twilight of the idols... http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechann...el/ntexteng.htm mind you, these are not complete books, you'll have to visit the book store or library... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Nov 19, 2003, 01:50 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
hardright Sedimentary Rock Posts: 6	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Section 8,) You bring up an interesting point, and I will probably read some C.S. Lewis in order to get a better point of view. On another note I highly suggest you read The Anti-Christ by Nietzsche. I believe fedfem posted the link in the basic nietzsche thread.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> In addition to Lewis, check out Chesterton's book Everlasting Man. I'll look into Nietzsche's Anti-Christ, but I'm more of a Kierkegaardian myself. Peace!

Nov 19, 2003, 05:00 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,467	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (cheesemage,) Really though many parts of Christanity was changed during the council of Tripoli(I think this is the name of it), when the Romans adapted Christanity, many things about the religion were changed, Christmas for example is just a renaming of a holiday the Romans had already celebrating Apolo making the transition easier for Romans, thus that is why Christmas is not on Jesus brith (sometime in Spring I think, it is mentioned in the bible somewhere).<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> And the date of Christmas was set on the birthdate of Mithra...a pagan god or something. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Nov 20, 2003, 12:44 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
mustardplaster Sedimentary Rock Posts: 5	I can understand both point of views. I'm a Christian and I believe the bible maybe somewhat like Chinese whispers over the years has been changed and changed nd changed ever so slightly. So as for fact well that can be argued. In the bible it says take these word with a child like spirit, as a child does. Could mean the general idea should be taken NOT analyzing and delving into what it could mean. Or it my suggest that just believe it like a child believes what its parents say. Hmmm in all I sort of think of it like "what was here a trillion years ago? and what will be here in a trillion years?" one thing is for certain it we will not be here. Something has to have created us/the universe/matter/thoughts. As for no evidence of Christ for 800y well I'm sure I could find some, could not even start as it would open a can of searching worms and would never end... Whale Jesus yes just the wrong way around. Mary a mith well no however the bible doesn't say she is holy so a faith claiming that is telling forkies, but again there could be evidence I have not researched it that much.

Nov 20, 2003, 01:03 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,467	Long live Mithra anyway. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Nov 20, 2003, 04:39 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	I thought Godzilla kicked Mithra's ass... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Nov 20, 2003, 05:47 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,467	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) I thought Godzilla kicked Mithra's ass...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Nah thats Mothra or something, big flappy thing. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Nov 21, 2003, 03:32 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
Down Molten Ash Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 30	In refernece to the similarities between Christianity and paganism, the main symbol for christmas is a tree, which strikes me as very pagan. Also, christmas is very close to the Winter Solstice (i think thats what it's called.) Correct me if I am wrong, it just strikes me as odd. http://www.sixtyten.com/images/siggy.gif <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:gray'>Man is afraid of that which he does not know.</span></span>

Nov 21, 2003, 06:08 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
laserkid Molten Ash Location: Sore Wa Himitsu Desu Posts: 80	actually the main symbol for Christmas is the nativity - the tree is more of the secular side of it. As for the day of it - it was set to the same day as a Roman festival before Rome adopted it and for a VERY good reason - if they're partying over Christmas - and it was another day Rome would come down on them and kill them - but its that same festival day so they assumed they were celebrating the same thing other romans were, its a very simple explanation. As for christian stuff - C.S. Lewis' book "Mere Christianity" is an absolute MUST read if you even just want to understand Christianity. "That is a Secret." -Xellos

Dec 5, 2003, 08:54 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Gregory Guest Posts: n/a	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by In refernece to the similarities between Christianity and paganism, the main symbol for christmas is a tree, which strikes me as very pagan. Also, christmas is very close to the Winter Solstice (i think thats what it's called.) Correct me if I am wrong, it just strikes me as odd.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> this is an interesting site about chrismas: http://www.holidays.net/christmas/story.htm i didnt know a lot of that!