Hanged for being a Christian in Iran

[Jack]

There have been a couple of threads in the forum that ask us to believe that Islam is a religion of peace and love. This may very well be how the member posting them sees their version of Islam.

But in practice Islamic law isn't based on a single interpretation of the Qur'an. "Islamic jurisprudence is not codified law: it is a series of formulations developed across generations by scholars and clerics. Depending on the Islamic school or historical era, these formulations can differ and even contradict each other.” (from the following article)

Iran follows a form of Islam that's perhaps the most brutal and disgusting of any Muslim country. In 2005 two Iranian teenagers, Mahmoud Asgari (16) and Ayaz Marhoni (18), were both sentenced to death for what some human rights groups claimed was "consensual gay sex". And now they are endorsing the killing of Christians and others they identify as apostates.

Eighteen years ago, Rashin Soodmand's father was hanged in Iran for converting to Christianity. Now her brother is in a Mashad jail, and expects to be executed under new religious laws brought in this summer. A month ago, the Iranian parliament voted in favour of a draft bill, entitled "Islamic Penal Code", which would codify the death penalty for any male Iranian who leaves his Islamic faith. Women would get life imprisonment. The majority in favour of the new law was overwhelming: 196 votes for, with just seven against. Imposing the death penalty for changing religion blatantly violates one of the most fundamental of all human rights. The right to freedom of religion is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and in the European Convention of Human Rights. It is even enshrined as Article 23 of Iran's own constitution, which states that no one may be molested simply for his beliefs. And yet few politicians or clerics in Iran see any contradiction between a law mandating the death penalty for changing religion and Iran's constitution. There has been no public protest in Iran against it. For one woman living in London, however, the Iranian parliamentary vote cannot be brushed aside. Rashin Soodmand is a 29-year-old Iranian Christian. Her father, Hossein Soodmand, was the last man to be executed in Iran for apostasy, the "crime" of abandoning one's religion. He had converted from Islam to Christianity in 1960, when he was 13 years old. Thirty years later, he was hanged by the Iranian authorities for that decision. Today, Rashin's brother, Ramtin, is also held in a prison cell in Mashad, Iran's holiest city. He was arrested on August 21. He has not been charged but he is a Christian. And Rashin fears that, just as her father was the last man to be executed for apostasy in Iran, her brother may become one of the first to be killed under Iran's new law. Not surprisingly, Rashin is desperately worried. "I am terribly anxious about him," she explains. "Even though my brother is not an apostate, because he has never been a Muslim – my father raised us all as Christians – I don't think he is safe. They assume that if you are Iranian, you must be Muslim." But six months later, the police came back and took her father away again. This time, they offered him a choice: he could denounce his Christian faith, and the church in which he was a pastor – or he would be killed. "Of course, my father refused to give up his faith," Rashid recalls proudly. "He could not renounce his God. His belief in Christ was his life – it was his deepest conviction." So two weeks later, Hossein Soodmand was taken by guards to the prison gallows and hanged. Life for Rashin, her siblings and her mother became extremely difficult. Some Muslims are extremely hostile to people of any other religion, never mind to those who they consider apostates: Ayatollah Khomeini declared that "non-Muslims are impure", insisting that for Muslims to wash the clothes of non-Muslims, or to eat food with non-Muslims, or even to use utensils touched by non-Muslims, would spoil their purity. "After the revolution of 1979, Iran's rulers wanted to turn Iran into an Islamic state, and to abolish the secular laws of the Shah," explains Alexa Papadouris of Christian Solidarity Worldwide, a human rights organisation that specialises in freedom of religion. "So the clerics instituted a mandate for judges presiding over criminal cases: if the existing penal code did not include legislation on whether a certain kind of behaviour is an offence, then the judges should refer to traditional Islamic jurisprudence." In other words: sharia law. There is another factor: President Ahmadinejad. "The President didn't initiate the law mandating the death penalty for apostates," says Papadouris, "but he has been lobbying for it. It is an effective form of playing populist politics. The Iranian economy is doing very badly, and the country is in a mess: Ahmadinejad may be calculating that he can gain support, and deflect attention from Iran's problems, by persecuting apostates." The new law is not yet in force in Iran: it requires another vote in parliament, and then the signature of the Ayatollah. But that could happen within a matter of weeks. "Or," says Papadouris, "it could conceivably be allowed to drop, were there a powerful enough international outcry".

Hanged for being a Christian in Iran - Telegraph

As a non-religious humanist I denounce the killing of anyone for their religious beliefs. It's not only inhumane but inefficient. You can't kill a viewpoint.

It's not only humanists who should be loudly opposing this violation of basic human rights. Christians and those of other, non-Islamic religions should be protesting this as well.

Islam will never be viewed by Western, may I say humane, societies as a peaceful and loving religion until these crimes against humanity have been forever renounced and abandoned.

[SoylentGreen]

JackIslam will never be viewed by Western, may I say humane, societies as a peaceful and loving religion until these crimes against humanity have been forever renounced and abandoned.

Apperantly there is no need to restrict this just to islam.

Shocking acts of cruelty in religious strife - 10 Oct 2008 - NZ Herald: International and World News

For a country (india) that boasts of its mutual religious tolerance, the long-simmering tension that has erupted in the Kandhamal district of the state of Orissa - a nun being raped, churches being burned, at least 35 people killed and thousands forced from their villages - is both a belated wake-up call and a mounting embarrassment. It was here in late August that thousands of Hindus armed with swords, sticks and primitive guns began taking matters into their own hands after the murder of an elderly Hindu religious leader, Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati. The swami had reportedly been working to prevent low-caste Hindus converting to Christianity. His followers claimed he had been murdered by local Christians, though police said there was no evidence of that. Either way, in the days that followed, groups of Hindus wrought a terrible revenge on Christian families whom they had lived alongside for decades. In addition to the deaths, 140 churches and prayer halls were attacked and up to 50,000 people forced to flee.

Now I could make a bad joke about some third world countries having a more progressive attitude towards christians , but that would be bad taste so i won't.

But i am curious as to what it is about christianity that the other religions despise so much.

[Jack]

I suspect there's an element of nationalism mingled in with religious intolerance in both cases. Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion in origin, not native to Iran or India. Christianity is no doubt viewed as both a threat to local beliefs and a foreign influence.

[lindsay7]

"The Iranian economy is doing very badly, and the country is in a mess: Ahmadinejad may be calculating that he can gain support, and deflect attention from Iran's problems, by persecuting apostates."

A country with desperate poor people are more apt to blame and kill others. It's sad and disgusting but it's true. It happened with the Germans, they were poor and desperate and Hitler was able to convince them that the country's problems were caused by the Jews.

I think Obama is right, the world needs to have diplomatic talks with Iran, not ignore them.
I think economic stability would bring peace. The leaders of Iran should be given the option to have sanctions lifted if they follow the rules for peace.

Anyways, I think this is an issue more of foreign policy and economic stability than of religion. Because I don't think it's just the Iranian Muslims that would turn on people in a desperate situation. I think if Western society fell we would see the exact same **** here.

Quote by: SoylentGreen Now I could make a bad joke about some third world countries having a more progressive attitude towards christians , but that would be bad taste so i won't.

you should have just kept that thought to yourself.

[SoylentGreen]

Yet india has roughly 3 million gods. Surely fitting one more in shouldn't be that big a problem. I suspect it is the nature of christianity to force it's belief as being the only acceptable one is the real problem.

[SoylentGreen]

lindsay7The leaders of Iran should be given the option to have sanctions lifted if they follow the rules for peace.

I don't know that you can blame present day conditions on something that has been happening for far longer than the war has.

you should have just kept that thought to yourself.

I do apologize it was childish but i just couldn't resist.

[Jack]

I think this is an issue more of foreign policy and economic stability than of religion.

A solution may be, but the OP was specific to the religious influence in these deplorable actions.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Yet india has roughly 3 million gods. Surely fitting one more in shouldn't be that big a problem. I suspect it is the nature of christianity to force it's belief as being the only acceptable one is the real problem.

I really doubt that Iranian Christians are pushing their beliefs onto Muslims, especially considering the danger they are in for simply having those beliefs and worshiping amongst themselves.

But you've already shown that you really dislike Christians so it's easy to just blame the victims I guess.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Jack A solution may be, but the OP was specific to the religious influence in these deplorable actions.

True, I was veering off-topic

[Night]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Yet india has roughly 3 million gods. Surely fitting one more in shouldn't be that big a problem. I suspect it is the nature of christianity to force it's belief as being the only acceptable one is the real problem.

Serious? What a joke.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: lindsay7 I really doubt that Iranian Christians are pushing their beliefs onto Muslims, especially considering the danger they are in for simply having those beliefs and worshiping amongst themselves. But you've already shown that you really dislike Christians so it's easy to just blame the victims I guess.

But there is no danger in being a christian per se the danger is in being as they say apostate. Changing your religion. It would seem that the religious are jealously guarded about keeping the faith.

And considering that in the indian version the cause was allegadly from some christians murdering a hindu priest, then it would appear christians are not the only ones to claim victim status.

And no it is not the christians i dislike its the religion. You know, a bit like you lot don't hate homosexuals but hate the homosexuality.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: SoylentGreen But there is no danger in being a christian per se the danger is in being as they say apostate. Changing your religion. It would seem that the religious are jealously guarded about keeping the faith.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the OP article:

"I am terribly anxious about him," she explains. "Even though my brother is not an apostate, because he has never been a Muslim – my father raised us all as Christians – I don't think he is safe. They assume that if you are Iranian, you must be Muslim."

Life for Rashin, her siblings and her mother became extremely difficult. Some Muslims are extremely hostile to people of any other religion, never mind to those who they consider apostates: Ayatollah Khomeini declared that "non-Muslims are impure"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christians in Iran are probably in danger whether they are aposates or not.

Quote by: SoylentGreen And considering that in the indian version the cause was allegadly from some christians murdering a hindu priest, then it would appear christians are not the only ones to claim victim status.

The police said there was no evidence of that, we don't know what happened.

There's never any valid reason for genecide. Even if an idiot Christian did murder the Hindu leader, that's no reason for the Hindu mob to murder thousands of Christians who had nothing to do with it.

Quote by: SoylentGreen And no it is not the christians i dislike its the religion. You know, a bit like you lot don't hate homosexuals but hate the homosexuality.

I don't have a problem with homosexuality.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Jack In 2005 two Iranian teenagers, Mahmoud Asgari (16) and Ayaz Marhoni (18), were both sentenced to death for what some human rights groups claimed was "consensual gay sex".

They do the same thing in Afganistan which lead to the following saying (translated from durka):

"The birds fly over Afghanistan with one wing covering their butts."

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Night Serious? What a joke.

In what way? We have a good history of christianity destroying the lives of people where ever they have sent missionaries to convert the heathens.

[SoylentGreen]

lindsay7From the OP article:

Cherry picking the article, but then that is the method of christians.

The swami had reportedly been working to prevent low-caste Hindus converting to Christianity.

It's always about keeping the faith.

There's never any valid reason for genecide.

Yet we can always depend on religion, especially christianity, to practice genocide on those who refuse to change faith.

I don't have a problem with homosexuality.

You speak for all christians then?

[lindsay7]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Cherry picking the article, but then that is the method of christians.

Cherry picking the article? The method of Christians?

I was simply using a quote from the article to back up my statement. Which is the same thing that you do. Your generalization about Christians from this action is irrational, and is just another comment showing your dislike of Christians, not just their views.

Quote by: SoylentGreen It's always about keeping the faith.

Undoubtedly that has a role in religious violence, though I think there’s a lot more to the conflict than just that, as explained in my first post. But that’s getting off topic so I’ll just say this – it doesn’t make sense to blame the victims in these conflicts.

Quote by: SoylentGreen Yet we can always depend on religion, especially christianity, to practice genocide on those who refuse to change faith.

It’s not the Christians who are practicing genocide today. It doesn’t make sense to blame them for what Christians did hundreds of years ago.

Quote by: SoylentGreen You speak for all christians then?

I think it’s clear from your comments that it is Christians you dislike and not just the religion. And that kind of sentiment towards people over an opposing view is part of what starts these conflicts in the first place.

[Rog]

Quote by: lindsay7 I think it’s clear from your comments that it is Christians you dislike and not just the religion. And that kind of sentiment towards people over an opposing view is part of what starts these conflicts in the first place.

Oh yes, he loves to attach christians, I never got the reason behind it.

[LadiesMan217]

Quote by: SoylentGreen And no it is not the christians i dislike its the religion. You know, a bit like you lot don't hate homosexuals but hate the homosexuality.

Yes, but let's say for a moment that you were one of those that hate homosexuality and not homosexuals and the article was about a homosexual being hanged in Iran. You wouldn't be arguing that the killing was somehow warranted like you appear to be doing in this case. And don't act like you are not because if you weren't then you would have done nothing more then condemn this atrocious act instead of bringing all the genocide that was committed in the name of Christianity hundreds of years ago, but Christianity has evolved since then and has become much more accepting of differing beliefs. Yes, they still preach their schtick about homosexuality being sinful and what-not but they don't go around killing the sinners which is a common practice in Islam since it has not evolved out of the Dark Ages.

[Jack]

Yes, they still preach their schtick about homosexuality being sinful and what-not but they don't go around killing the sinners which is a common practice in Islam since it has not evolved out of the Dark Ages.

I agree Christian hate killing isn't as prevalent as it is in Islamic countries, but we can't ignore the fact that the killing of Matthew Shepard (a gay youth) and abortion doctors have been motivated by Christian religious beliefs. Religious fanatics are not confined to Islam, though that is the focus of this thread.

[LadiesMan217]

Quote by: Jack I agree Christian hate killing isn't as prevalent as it is in Islamic countries, but we can't ignore the fact that the killing of Matthew Shepard (a gay youth) and abortion doctors have been motivated by Christian religious beliefs. Religious fanatics are not confined to Islam, though that is the focus of this thread.

Jack, I agree. Christianity undoubtedly has its fair share of extremists that commit atrocities, but those don't happen every day as they due in the Middle East and Christians denounce these acts and frown upon them much more prevalently then Islam. The fact that SoylentGreen can't simply condemn this hanging without pointing out the flaws of Christianity as if this person had it coming because of the skeletons in Christian history's closet is very troubling... and revealing.