My Understanding of the Universe

[Tycoon]

My understanding of the universe is pretty simple, and so I will put it to you in a numbered format and then we can bicker back and forth on the details afterwards.

1. All the matter in the universe exists within one small area of intense heat and pressure.
2. Extremely active particles explode outwards forming galaxies and other stellar bodies.
3. Every galaxy slowly contracts upon itself as a result of gravity, forming a black hole at the center of each galaxy.
4. The black hole at the center of each galaxy collects all the matter of that galaxy as a result of gravity.
5. Gravity pulls at the black holes, gradually reducing the momentum each galaxy had acquired from the “Big Bang”.
6. The gravity of the black holes pulls them together and they fuse with each other until only one black hole remains.
7. All the matter in the universe once again exists within one small area of intense heat and pressure.
8. Extremely active particles explode outwards forming galaxies and other stellar bodies, the process repeats infinitely.

It is essentially the Big Bang theory with a few minor alterations. I find that the Big Bang theory as I learned it never really elaborated enough on how the galaxies came back together at the end of every sequence, so I just expanded on that.

Anybody disagree with this?

[Zhavric]

You missed the part where a proto-cosmic Jewish zombie barfs it all into reality.

[Diogenes]

The ' Big Bang ' is still just a theory...it is not scientific fact...this is something a few people seem to over-look...

we do not know how the Universe started...and we may never know with any real measurable certainty.

In 50 years another theory might be proposed that has even more validity...then 130 years later another theory...and so forth...

I remember being taught as a child that the Dinosaurs were killed by an Ice Age..now it's a meteor...that Christopher Columbus discovered America...now he really discovered Cuba ( West Indies...or there abouts )...that Pilgrims were the first white men the Natives feasted with...now the Vikings...some have changed it to the Phoenicians ( claiming that they had a trading route to the New World as early as 100BC )...

the facts and theories of today are just fleeting moments of tomorrow.

[bulldogsfiend]

Diogenes,

you have stumbled across the scientific method. we take the evidence we have at hand and come up with a way to explain it that meets all the observations we can make. this is called a theory. as science improves (or our knowledge of history for your examples) we replace what no longer fits with another theory that does fit.

The big bang and the big crunch are just the best explanations we have at the time. Are they proven? no but they do really well to explain why everything is moving the way it does.

Second here are some other theories. there are many rigorous tests a theory must go through before it is called a law. here are some other theories that havent made it to law yet
Heliocentric theory, the theory that the earth revolves around the sun
Gravitational theory
Cell theory
and
Atomic theory.


But yea tyc i think that is the basic model of what happened big bang, big crunch rinse and repeat.

However i would like to point out that the big bang theory does not point out how the universe started, it only describes the events of matter once they were here.

To the best of my knowledge there is no supported theory at how things got here. The idea i tend to lean towards is that everything was always here. I mean if something has had to exist forever its more likely that its the same thats here right now.

[Diogenes]

Siddhattha ( Siddhartha to others ) proposed that there are many Universes...and every Universe goes through both involution and evolution...

just as matter is finite and as a result must recycle itself constantly...so too the Universes as wholes must be recycled...

and this is a never-ending process...

one day...no matter how advanced we become...no matter how important we think we are...this Universe will implode/involve...and the cycle will continue.

Siddhattha believed that the only way to escape this constant recycling...was to reach Nibbana ( Nirvana to others )...a state whereby you become apart from this process...

basically he believed that there was an opposite realm to this ...one that is unchanging...an infinite reality...opposed to our finite reality.

[SoylentGreen]

1. All the matter in the universe exists within one small area of intense heat and pressure.

Then the expansion should be from one locatable point. but it isn't . All matter in the universe is accelerating away from all matter. so there is no central point.

5.Gravity pulls at the black holes, gradually reducing the momentum each galaxy had acquired from the “Big Bang”.

Not only did you leave out a jewish zombie but you completely forgot about dark matter.The driving force behind this apparent acceleration, (which has more to do with decreasing density of the Universe than actual
acceleration, by the way), is a "dark force", somewhat related to
"dark matter", which has been much-talked of lately. (The two are not
synonyms, and "anti-gravity" is not the accepted term, either.) This
Dark Force acts as a counter to gravitational attraction and "snaps"
the Universe outward. This would be a fifth force at work in the
Universe, on top of the four now accepted by physicists: the strong
force, which holds the nucleus of an atom together; the weak force,
which causes atomic decay; electromagnetic force, which holds
electrons in orbit in an atom; and gravity.

7 All the matter in the universe once again exists within one small area of intense heat and pressure.

The universe is expanding. Particles at the edge are expanding at a rate near the speed of light, so the theory goes. Gravity is the among the weakest forces there is . As the universe expands the attraction between bodies grows less.
The only idea that the universe will contract is because we are use to seeing things work in cycles.

[isaone]

Actually current measurements lean more towards a universe ever expanding at an increasing rate. There is just not enough gravity and Dark Energy seems to be working in the opposite direction anyway . No Big Crunch at all . Everything just dies and the universe reaches maximum entropy.

There are a couple of outrider theories that allow for repeated 'bangs' . Even these theories do not have a crunch, just another event (in another dimension according to one I actually sort of understand) which starts it again eventually .

[Jinei]

Quote by: Tycoon My understanding of the universe is pretty simple, and so I will put it to you in a numbered format and then we can bicker back and forth on the details afterwards. All the matter in the universe exists within one small area of intense heat and pressure. Extremely active particles explode outwards forming galaxies and other stellar bodies. Every galaxy slowly contracts upon itself as a result of gravity, forming a black hole at the center of each galaxy. The black hole at the center of each galaxy collects all the matter of that galaxy as a result of gravity. Gravity pulls at the black holes, gradually reducing the momentum each galaxy had acquired from the “Big Bang”. The gravity of the black holes pulls them together and they fuse with each other until only one black hole remains. All the matter in the universe once again exists within one small area of intense heat and pressure. Extremely active particles explode outwards forming galaxies and other stellar bodies, the process repeats infinitely. It is essentially the Big Bang theory with a few minor alterations. I find that the Big Bang theory as I learned it never really elaborated enough on how the galaxies came back together at the end of every sequence, so I just expanded on that. Anybody disagree with this?

I have one small beef with number 5 there. No galaxy actually has its own momentum (except maybe angular momentum preserved in its spin, but not in its movement across space). They may have individual drift, but nothing directly related to the big bang. Their apparent movements that we detect are the cause of the expansion of space-time, which is, as it happens, a relic of the big bang.

The expansionary force between the galaxies isn't likely to lose out to the attractive force between them. Except for exceptionally close galaxies, like the Milky Way and the Andromeda galaxies, the black holes aren't likely to coalesce into a super-unisingularity or something.

Some black holes, by the way, go dormant within the centers of galaxies. They can do this by sucking in nearby stars, dust, noble gases, etc. and near the event horizon, some accretion material accomplishes escape velocity. A haze of escaped material breaks free of the black hole and actually ends up repelling other stars, dust, and noble gases, effectively cutting off the black hole's food source. That being said, the prospect of dormant black holes and the reality of an expansionary force makes one super unisingularity rather impossible.

Well that's how I see it....

Quote by: Diogenes The ' Big Bang ' is still just a theory...it is not scientific fact...this is something a few people seem to over-look...

'Tis inevitable....

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Tycoon My understanding of the universe is pretty simple, and so I will put it to you in a numbered format and then we can bicker back and forth on the details afterwards. All the matter in the universe exists within one small area of intense heat and pressure. Extremely active particles explode outwards forming galaxies and other stellar bodies. Every galaxy slowly contracts upon itself as a result of gravity, forming a black hole at the center of each galaxy. The black hole at the center of each galaxy collects all the matter of that galaxy as a result of gravity. Gravity pulls at the black holes, gradually reducing the momentum each galaxy had acquired from the “Big Bang”. The gravity of the black holes pulls them together and they fuse with each other until only one black hole remains. All the matter in the universe once again exists within one small area of intense heat and pressure. Extremely active particles explode outwards forming galaxies and other stellar bodies, the process repeats infinitely. It is essentially the Big Bang theory with a few minor alterations. I find that the Big Bang theory as I learned it never really elaborated enough on how the galaxies came back together at the end of every sequence, so I just expanded on that. Anybody disagree with this?

I think that concept assumes nothing is going to be developed and/or discovered, ever, that may re-shape the Universe in either way.
Yet, we have not enough data on "Black Holes", not to mention "Dark Energy" (at all), respectively.
How are you going to implement these factors within that concept ?

[Tycoon]

You missed the part where a proto-cosmic Jewish zombie barfs it all into reality.

Dang, better scrap my whole theory.

[Tycoon]

The ' Big Bang ' is still just a theory...it is not scientific fact...this is something a few people seem to over-look...

The Big Bang theory is an explanation with a lot of missing peices, but it is based on one solid fact. All the galaxies in the universe are moving away from each other. What follows is that if you hit the rewind button they all meet somewhere at the beginning. If you can find a better explanation for that peice of fact, then please, present it.

[Tycoon]

However i would like to point out that the big bang theory does not point out how the universe started, it only describes the events of matter once they were here. To the best of my knowledge there is no supported theory at how things got here. The idea i tend to lean towards is that everything was always here. I mean if something has had to exist forever its more likely that its the same thats here right now.

That's my opinion as well. I disagree with theists who accept the Big Bang and evolution and just attribute it all to God because they play by a double standard: they say that the universe couldn't have existed forever, and yet they say that God could have existed forever.

[Tycoon]

Siddhattha ( Siddhartha to others ) proposed that there are many Universes...and every Universe goes through both involution and evolution... Siddhattha believed that the only way to escape this constant recycling...was to reach Nibbana ( Nirvana to others )...a state whereby you become apart from this process... basically he believed that there was an opposite realm to this ...one that is unchanging...an infinite reality...opposed to our finite reality.

And is there any evidence or reasoning to support any of this? It's pure fantasy and speculation. It also panders to the human dellusion that we are important, and panders to the human need for belief in an acheivable afterlife.

[HelioPrime]

What started the process hehe

And if your going to answer: It always existed: where is the evidence for that?

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Tycoon And is there any evidence or reasoning to support any of this? It's pure fantasy and speculation. It also panders to the human dellusion that we are important, and panders to the human need for belief in an acheivable afterlife.

And your not doing the same here?

I haven't seen a theist try and preach creationism or any similar subject in awhile. It's the non theists who seem to enjoy attention these days

[Dr_Acula]

Quote by: SoylentGreen dark matter.The driving force behind this apparent acceleration, (which has more to do with decreasing density of the Universe than actual acceleration, by the way), is a "dark force", somewhat related to "dark matter", which has been much-talked of lately. (The two are not synonyms, and "anti-gravity" is not the accepted term, either.) This Dark Force acts as a counter to gravitational attraction and "snaps" the Universe outward. This would be a fifth force at work in the Universe, on top of the four now accepted by physicists: the strong force, which holds the nucleus of an atom together; the weak force, which causes atomic decay; electromagnetic force, which holds electrons in orbit in an atom; and gravity.

Dark Matter represents extra mass, meaning extra gravitational pull, which helps the universe stick together.
Dark Energy is a completely differnet concept, associated with a "negative pressure", which ensures the expansion of the universe. This is supposed to be the "Age dominated by dark energy", Gravity aint strong enough so expansion wins.

And not only that, but the actual space between galaxies is expanding.

But it´s the universe were talking about, there are lots of things we dont know, many things can happen in the far future.

[bulldogsfiend]

Quote by: HelioPrime What started the process hehe And if your going to answer: It always existed: where is the evidence for that?

i think it always existed. think...i cant really support it but if i must chose between what i can see being here forever or making up an imaginary being and then saying he was here forever i would choose what i can see around me.

[Dr_Acula]

Quote by: HelioPrime What started the process hehe And if your going to answer: It always existed: where is the evidence for that?

Always? Do you understand the implications of such a word? It implies time. And there is no time without universe. Time is the evolution of the matter and energy in the universe. If things stopped evolving, stopped moving, one would say that "time stopped". If there is nohing, there is no time.

[Diogenes]

And is there any evidence or reasoning to support any of this? It's pure fantasy and speculation. It also panders to the human dellusion that we are important, and panders to the human need for belief in an acheivable afterlife.

OK...all I did was propose another theory...not even my theory...but let's examine your complaint anyways...

what exactly about this alternate theory you disagree with?

1. there are many Universes
2. every Universe goes through both involution and evolution
3. matter is finite and as a result must recycle itself constantly
4. Universes as wholes must be recycled
5. this is a never-ending process
6. no matter how advanced we become... the cycle will continue.
7. no matter how important we think we are... the cycle will continue.
8. the only way to escape this constant recycling...was to reach Nibbana ( Nirvana to others )...a state whereby you become apart from this process...
9. there is an opposite realm to this ...one that is unchanging...an infinite reality...opposed to our finite reality.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Dr_Acula Always? Do you understand the implications of such a word? It implies time. And there is no time without universe. Time is the evolution of the matter and energy in the universe. If things stopped evolving, stopped moving, one would say that "time stopped". If there is nohing, there is no time.

As the non theists would say... evidence please?

Call one thing a fantasy and another a possible reality... why? because the other fits more in line with how you'd prefer the world to be.