Preferring fantasy over reality

[Jack]

There's a guy on Twitter with the following biography:

Bio: Christian, husband, father, PHP programmer, gamer. In that order.

I find that sad. He puts his belief in an imaginary being, one he's never met in the flesh and only knows by faith, ahead of his devotion to his wife and children.

That's one way in which religion distorts and diminishes a person's view of reality.

[Athena]

Quote by: Jack There's a guy on Twitter with the following biography: I find that sad. He puts his belief in an imaginary being, one he's never met in the flesh and only knows by faith, ahead of his devotion to his wife and children. That's one way in which religion distorts and diminishes a person's view of reality.

Are any of us sure we don't live a fantasy rather than a reality? Are we really who think we are? Just yesterday, I spent a lovely afternoon with a woman who is now a physicist. She hasn't been a physicist for that long and comes from a family troubled with alcoholism and poverty. She is having an identity crisis, as her position in life is so different now. She lived with helplessness and shame and is now a respected and capable woman. She reads a lot is really is an amazing woman.

I can remember going through going an identify crisis many times. It is common as our lives change. We have to let go of who we think we are to become who can be.

Putting God first is not all bad, and neither is the fantasy. The fantasy begs the question, who am I and who do I want to be and how do I want to treat others? Now a problem comes up though- is one desiring to be like the God of old testament or the God of the new testament? The God of the old testament is the model of an abusive husband, jealous, revengeful, and frightening. Reality is really all about Him, punishing and rewarding people as it suits him. The God of the new testament could be pleasant to live with, loving and forgiving, and caring for others.

[Jack]

Now a problem comes up though- is one desiring to be like the God of old testament or the God of the new testament?

There are more than two gods worshiped in the world today. Putting any of them ahead of your family in your personal priorities I see as an insult to those real people who love you.

There are those of us who have had to come to terms with who and what we are who have managed to do that without involving god worship.

[Eraldo Coil]

I find that sad. He puts his belief in an imaginary being, one he's never met in the flesh and only knows by faith, ahead of his devotion to his wife and children.That's one way in which religion distorts and diminishes a person's view of reality.

This example cannot apply to everyone involved in a religion. And besides it's his choice, and his wife and kids most likely support it. This is coming from an agnostic. Assuming that this God is real wouldn't you, if in his position thank the being that gave you these opportunities and people in your life.

[Jack]

I know Christianity supports such a view:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

However, I see no reason to assume that this god or any god exists, whereas there are plenty of reasons to think his wife and children do. I think it's a sad commentary on religious belief that religions expect a person to put those closest to them in a secondary position to their imaginary master. Islam and Christianity both pervert social conditions by making their god and his imagined dictates more important than friends and family, other humans. Love philosophy all you want, but if you choose to be married and have children, they ought to be the most important things in your life. Isn't that supposedly the family value the religious right is always harping on?

[Eraldo Coil]

Once again Jack, you used the word imaginary. To these people, this being, this God, exists. There is now way to prove or disprove this God. Also, does it really seem to be harming these people? These people being " distorted" by the church. Once again I'm agnostic, I just figured I would debate the other side.

if you choose to be married and have children, they ought to be the most important things in your life. Isn't that supposedly the family value the religious right is always harping on?

True, but it is an unwritten rule that God comes before all this, at least to them.

[wyoguy]

Rather ironic, no? The liberal atheist who gets his hackles raised at the slightest notion that the religious right is interferring with his liberty to lead a sin-filled life, has somehow managed to declare himself the authority on what Christian priorities should be.

Oh, and nice try on obfuscating the issue by tossing in the Muslims. We are all well aware of your agenda.

[wyoguy]

Quote by: Eraldo Coil True, but it is an unwritten rule that God comes before all this, at least to them.

Not true...

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

And if you think this is just a New Testament thing...

Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

[HelioPrime]

Unless I'm misunderstanding then the point here is its sad that the word Christian is used before Husband and Father?

Why are atheists offended that someone would place their religion in a self bio? If someone is proud of who they are then all of which they are proud of belongs in a short description of ones self.

[Jack]

Why are atheists offended that someone would place their religion in a self bio?

I'm not. As a humanist, I'm appalled that someone would put their philosophical beliefs above their devotion to their family.

[Jack]

Oh, and nice try on obfuscating the issue by tossing in the Muslims. We are all well aware of your agenda.

So if I don't mention Islam I'm picking on Christians and if I do I'm obfuscating?

[wyoguy]

Quote by: Jack So if I don't mention Islam I'm picking on Christians and if I do I'm obfuscating?

No... You are obfuscating when you mention Muslims, period. We know who your real target is. Even though the majority of contributors on this sight would have it be common knowledge that Christians are insipid morons that are incapable of any thought, much less critical thought, it's not too hard to see that you have a major hard-on for organized religion in general and Christianity specifically. Your back-handed jabs at Islam are so thinly veiled (no pun intended) that you can't possibly think that anyone reading your posts thinks they are truly directed at any group other than Christians.

[Matt W]

*sighs* Let's stick to the topic, please. You want to continue this, go to PM. If you're not interested in the topic, don't post.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[Calam]

I find it sad that someone would put their family above their relationship with God.

So what's your point? We disagree. Big deal. This isn't a debate, this is you complaining about someone's personal life.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Jack There's a guy on Twitter with the following biography: I find that sad. He puts his belief in an imaginary being, one he's never met in the flesh and only knows by faith, ahead of his devotion to his wife and children. That's one way in which religion distorts and diminishes a person's view of reality.

Maybe he has a strained relationship with his wife and kids, and is finding immense comfort in his faith. Does that ring as a possibility?

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Jack I'm not. As a humanist, I'm appalled that someone would put their philosophical beliefs above their devotion to their family.

How does word placement really say anything more than what others read into? Not really knowing the man it's just jumping to conclusions to say that he values one thing over another just off how he has laid out a self description.

[Calam]

And even if he values his faith over his family, there's no reason to go complain about it on a public forum. He has a right to choose what his personal priorities are.

[Athena]

Are we as gods or are we as dogs? Personally, I think if we identify with the gods, our human potential will be much better, than if we identify with dogs. We are animals that can reason, and ideas of god lift us up. If we stop at thinking of ourselves as animals, we might be reactionary, more like a dog, than a reasoning human.

How about this- we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Now that puts reality in a whole different context, doesn't it?

I don't see anything wrong with putting God first, because we are potentially better than other creatures if we can imagine a higher level of being, however, if the understanding of God is a humanized jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punishing God, then I have a problem with this. How a person understands God makes a difference.

[wyoguy]

BIG PICTURE---

By loving God most, all the other lesser loves are taken care of but not blown out of proportion. Christians are commanded to love their spouse, deeply and with self-sacrifice. Christians are likewise commanded to care for their children and to raise them with the admonition of the Lord. Christians are to be good stewards of their property and the world in general. But above all, we are to love God, without whom, none of the other loves would be possible.

These lesser loves are truly important, but not to be the focus of the Christian. All these things are perishable. God is eternal.

Now... you couldn't have slid this idea into my head with a crowbar 10 years ago... but here goes...

The driving force of this universe is love...

Sounds pretty sappy, doesn't it?

Love is the motivation for every creaturely act from the dawn of time until the end. Love has it's varying degrees. Love for spouse. Love for children....etc. It can also be corrupted by sin by degrees. Love of money. Love of sensual pleasure. Love of self.... etc. The bottom line, though, is love.

Think about it carefully. I double dog dare anybody to refute this claim. Love, or a deteriorated form of it, is all you really know. It's what gets you up in the morning. It's what keeps you going all day. It's the reason you go where you go when the day is done.

Love of God is the only love that doesn't lead to rabbit tracks disappearing into the dark forest.

My apologies to Jack and others for my lack of love in previous posts. Sometimes I need a good smack upside the head to make me see straight. Augustine did it this time.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Jack I'm not. As a humanist, I'm appalled that someone would put their philosophical beliefs above their devotion to their family.

Here you lose me, his bio is just how he identifies himself, just because he feels like the word christian more fully describes him than husband or father, does not mean that if given the choice between spitting on a cross and murdering his family he'd choose the latter, and even if he did, this sort of thing is not limited to or even most often found in religious people, greed, pride, aspirations and political tenets all regularly come between men and their "loved" ones.