Life begins............................

[Sandy]

I will not wade through those posts on a subject that is really nobody's damn business. The laws can get firmed up when when every human on this planet is exactly the same. We must have the same freedoms given to both men and women (and gays).......When an egg is fertilized the sperm donor and recipient must donate 17 years to the fertilized egg and be responsibile for the results of the act. It takes 17 years of 24/7 care and feeding to raise a fertilized egg into a human adult.

We are not alike, some are eager to be parents and some are not. Some of us believe in God and some do not. Some of us are promoters of employment of others and some can barely read and function.

At this point in time in America, the religious right is asking the GOP to prohibit all abortions by law and yet they have no follow up laws to protect the unborn fetus. Making women and Doctors criminals seems to be the end game of the Republicans and the damn fools do not realize that women will self inflict an abortion on themselves again and probably die in the act. Many Republicans will nod and shrug it off.

This single issue is turning many good Americans away from God and their church. That doesn't bother me at all but it should bother the very government that is trying for another inquisition-style police state. I've known for years that Christians resent women in the workplace, in the voting booths and on the podium of politics. My response is "Tuff Shit."

[ShadowFox]

Quote by: Sandy I will not wade through those posts on a subject that is really nobody's damn business. The laws can get firmed up when when every human on this planet is exactly the same. We must have the same freedoms given to both men and women (and gays).......When an egg is fertilized the sperm donor and recipient must donate 17 years to the fertilized egg and be responsibile for the results of the act. It takes 17 years of 24/7 care and feeding to raise a fertilized egg into a human adult. We are not alike, some are eager to be parents and some are not. Some of us believe in God and some do not. Some of us are promoters of employment of others and some can barely read and function. At this point in time in America, the religious right is asking the GOP to prohibit all abortions by law and yet they have no follow up laws to protect the unborn fetus. Making women and Doctors criminals seems to be the end game of the Republicans and the damn fools do not realize that women will self inflict an abortion on themselves again and probably die in the act. Many Republicans will nod and shrug it off. This single issue is turning many good Americans away from God and their church. That doesn't bother me at all but it should bother the very government that is trying for another inquisition-style police state. I've known for years that Christians resent women in the workplace, in the voting booths and on the podium of politics. My response is "Tuff Shit."

Ok, then, so, what do you think should be done with abortion and the like? Also, do you think men who donate sperm at a sperm bank should be forced to raise a child made with their sperm? Also, what do you think about people putting children up for adoption? And also, why should the church have anything to do with this matter?

[Dadoo]

Quote by: Halofan48 And also, why should the church have anything to do with this matter?

I can't speak for Sandy, but The Church is a powerful lobby and has an influence upon certain key political regions and representatives. God aside, that church will certainly have a say in the matter, as they are deeply entrenched philosophically and politically. It is all about money, not lives. Human beings are 'revenue centers' unto themselves.

-dadoo

[Gods_Mercenary]

The Church meaning who?

[Sandy]

I see nothing wrong with all churches or some, banning abortions! If they believe this is murder it is well within their system to ban the procedures. Let them ban divorce, birth control and homosexuality. Let them set up their own communities like the Mormons do only keep their breeding stock off the government welfare rolls.

I banned abortions in my own home before Roe v Wade as I never have wanted the government to issue prohibitions. If you belong to a church you should follow the laws of that church. You will never find me attending any church or respecting any of their hypocrisy.

Think! Think as individuals and get off this culture of collective society. If you need God, you have a problem that no legislation can help. I swear people are getting dumber by the day and it may be too much television.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Sandy I see nothing wrong with all churches or some, banning abortions! If they believe this is murder it is well within their system to ban the procedures.

The procedures can be stopped within the church. However, many religious people seem to see the world as their church, and accordingly want to have a greater foothold in government.

Grandpa h.

[isaone]

Well said Sandy !

Though I personally do not consider an embryo to be a person until brain activity begins , my real gripe is with the hypocritical nature of people on all sides. People will always have different opinions and while you and I may disagree, it is really intellectual dishonesty the gets me riled up. If you are in support of laws which will.

1. Make the penalty for all abortions exactly equivalent to current murder laws
2. Ban the fertilization of any eggs in vitro which are not used to inseminate and prosecute for murder anyone who destroys said embryos or allows them to become non viable through any storage issues
3. Ban the use of any contraceptive methods which do allow fertilization but prevent (or make ineffective) the implantation of the egg in the Uterus
4. Defines as a murderer any person whose action (diet, activity..) is shown to have caused an embryo of any age to detach form the Uterus.
5. Ban the use of fertility drugs (they cause many eggs to be released and often multiples are fertilized but do not implant)
6. Eliminate all capital punishment.

Then you and I disagree but you are being honest in your stated position that a fertilized embryo is a "human" . Otherwise you have absolutely no right whatsoever to state that that is your belief. you may still opposes abortion if you wish but you must find another definition for the beginning of life.

[GHook93]

At viability!

[Sandy]

Isaone. The issues you listed are all State's right's issues. Show me in the Constitution where the authority sits. .......

[isaone]

Actually Sandy I would prefer not to get into that particular discussion. It is a separate one from what I am talking about. I (for the purpose of this thread) do not care where the right to make these laws lies. My point is how intellectually dishonest the people are who pretend to take a certain position yet are not willing to make the hard decisions that naturally arise from that position.

For example I find a much higher percentage of the people I know who are anti-abortion are pro capital punishment when compared to those who are pro choice. If the state (whichever on for the purpose of this issue) has the power to end someone's fully developed and function life as punishment for actions that they have taken . Once you have agreed that the State has the right to 'end' life you cannot argue that once life begins (by whatever definition you want) that the state does not have the same authority when it comes to terminating the 'life' of an embryo even if you consider it a human. Thus the argument that the life should not be ended because it is a person is irrelevant unless you are against Capital Punishment.

And of course no politician or even religious leader would take a position against fertility treatments and in vitro fertilization just because they know it would lead to drastic reductions in those who 'follow' them.

[Barnicals]

Sandy. It's interesting that you say that people should think for themselves, yet you seem to encourage people following a religious leader. I think that if people really did think for themselves, you would have a lot more agnostics, or gnostic theists, or atheists, or whatever. (Yes isaone, I have been reading your thread )