Christ does NOT fulfill prophesy

[Rogue Cardinal]

1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH

A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!

C. TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)

MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS

Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.

A. VIRGIN BIRTH

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.

B. CRUCIFIXION

The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet."

C. SUFFERING SERVANT

Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."
In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.
Ironically, Isaiah's prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.
From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nanianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."

JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION

Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation -- i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person.
Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).
Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):
The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.
What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us -- who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)
Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.

CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY

The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination, and the one most familiar to the Western world.

A. GOD AS THREE?

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).
Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4).

B. MAN AS GOD?

Christians believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).
Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)

C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER?

The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary -- i.e. confessing one's sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me."
In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and God. As the Bible says: "God is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between God and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1)

D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD

Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.
By contrast, Judaism believes that God created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure.

6) JEWS AND GENTILES

Judaism does not demand that everyone convert to the religion. The Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. King Solomon asked God to heed the prayers of non-Jews who come to the Holy Temple (Kings I 8:41-43). The prophet Isaiah refers to the Temple as a "House for all nations."
The Temple service during Sukkot featured 70 bull offerings, corresponding to the 70 nations of the world. The Talmud says that if the Romans would have realized how much benefit they were getting from the Temple, they'd never have destroyed it.
Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism because the Torah prescribes a righteous path for gentiles to follow, known as the "Seven Laws of Noah." Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these basic moral laws earns a proper place in heaven.

For further study of the Seven Laws of Noah, see:

Bnei Noah of Fort Worth
http://www.fastlane.net/~bneinoah/

Path of the Righteous Gentile
Noahide Laws, The Seven - Jewish Knowledge Base

[Rog]

Well, I am sure you know that Christians do not think Jews and Catholics are going to heaven right? so explaining the Torah is not going to matter.

[Rogue Cardinal]

Your religion springs forth from the Torah. Yet you deny it. How odd.

[HelioPrime]

And the comedy line of the day:

Looks like the jews were right


While where on the subject:

Q: Why were the jewish people lost in the desert for 40 years?

A: Because one of them dropped some change!

[GHook93]

The moral of the story? All religion is based on falisities and bullsh1t.

The question of how the universe and life began is a tough question, yet people's answer to it us base it on illogical supersitions aka religion.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: GHook93 The moral of the story? All religion is based on falisities and bullsh1t. The question of how the universe and life began is a tough question, yet people's answer to it us base it on illogical supersitions aka religion.

Oh... I though the moral was some people have an odd and deeply rooted hatred of christianity and to much time on their hands

[Aussie]

Quote by: HelioPrime Oh... I though the moral was some people have an odd and deeply rooted hatred of christianity and to much time on their hands

Playing the victim again Helio! Christians seem very good at this!

[Rog]

Quote by: Rogue Cardinal Your religion springs forth from the Torah. Yet you deny it. How odd.

Christians believe on the teachings of Christ. OT is a reference book of what "not to do" We do not want to be like the Jew.

[Rog]

Quote by: GHook93 The moral of the story? All religion is based on falisities and bullsh1t. The question of how the universe and life began is a tough question, yet people's answer to it us base it on illogical supersitions aka religion.

you know what is odd? Christians have faith in a perfect creator, atheist have faith in faulty man.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Aussie Playing the victim again Helio! Christians seem very good at this!

Some species are endangered in one region yet not in another.

Just like here. Yes, we are the innocent victims here on Volconvo

[GHook93]

Quote by: Rog you know what is odd? Christians have faith in a perfect creator, atheist have faith in faulty man.

Rather I would atheist/agnostics have faith in logic, science, the probably and a keen eye for bullsh1t!

[GHook93]

Quote by: HelioPrime Some species are endangered in one region yet not in another. Just like here. Yes, we are the innocent victims here on Volconvo

If taking sh1t from smart logical people in the digital era is the amount of victimization the Christian feel, consider that fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a price for all devastation the Christians have inflicited on the world in the AD!

[evensaul]

Rogue, are you claiming authorship of the original post, or would you like to name the author?

[Rog]

Quote by: GHook93 Rather I would atheist/agnostics have faith in logic, science, the probably and a keen eye for bullsh1t!

Here are some quotes I found that you probably have faith in...

A Time/Life children's book in the Emergence of Man series says,
"It is now a proven scientific fact that man was millions of years in the making. The path of his evolution is marked by dead ends and new beginnings, the waysides strewn with relics of his various forms. Although many of these remains are at best minimal, they are enough to sketch out the key stages of his march through time. The chief problem facing anthropologists today is to fill in the gaps."


At Fossil Man's Hall of Fame in the Field Museum in Chicago, a caption reads,
"In the study of human evolution there will always be room for differences of opinion and for doubt. Although occasional finds of fossil human remains may contribute greatly to knowledge of human development, theories of human evolution should not be based on specimens that are exceedingly fragmentary and lack important parts."

You have faith in missing links.

[evensaul]

The following is from jewsforjesus.org

What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?
January 1, 2005

It is important to begin by saying that for one who has already made up his or her mind that Jesus is not the Messiah, no amount of evidence will be convincing. But for those who are honest in asking, the evidence speaks for itself.

When sincerely asked, this question is a good one. After all, there have been false Messiahs in Jewish history. Among the most prominent were Bar Kochba and Shabbetai Zevi. Bar Kochba led a revolt against Rome in the years 132-135 C.E.

During this revolt, one of the most famous figures in Jewish history, Rabbi Akiva, proclaimed him to be "King Messiah." Unfortunately, Bar Kochba, Akiva and thousands of Jews were killed in 135 C.E. when the Romans stormed the stronghold of Betar. Shabbetai Zevi, on the other hand, was a self-proclaimed Messiah. Flourishing in 17th-century Europe, the Shabbatean movement spread among both the common people and the rabbis. But when Shabbetai Zevi was arrested in 1666 by the Sultan of Turkey, he converted to Islam rather than face death. We have been tragically wrong before, so it is not surprising that hard evidence should be sought for believing in Jesus.

The idea of a Messiah is one that is found throughout the Hebrew Bible. There, the Messiah's "I.D." is given to us. Imagine looking up a friend by first locating his country. That would not be enough information, so you would need to ascertain his city, street, and specific number on that street. It would also help if you had a phone number and knew the time at which he would be home.

Similarly, the Bible tells us the "I.D." of the Messiah. His ethnic background, place of birth, time frame of his arrival and other identifying characteristics are given. These "credentials" enable us to identify the Messiah, and to recognize imposters.

Of course it might be objected that if these "credentials" are so clear, why didn't most Jewish people believe in Jesus, and why were they so taken in by false Messiahs like Bar Kochba and Shabbetai Zevi?

To understand this, one must realize that by the time of Jesus, the Messianic hope had become greatly politicized in the minds of the people. They were seeking deliverance from the tyranny of Rome. Although the Scripture spoke both of the sufferings and of the victories of the Messiah, the victorious aspect had become uppermost in the minds of the common people because of the Roman domination. This "lopsided" view of the Messiah has stuck with Jewish people, and the politicization of the Messianic hope has continued. Thus the hope of a political rather than a spiritual Messiah contributes to both the acceptance of people such as Bar Kochba, and the rejection of Jesus in his role as a Messiah.

This is not to say that all Jewish people rejected the claims of Jesus. Far from that being the case, all the first followers of Jesus were Jews. In fact, the rabbis of that time period and afterwards were well aware of the many Messianic prophecies which Christians claimed were fulfilled in Jesus. So for instance, although the Talmudic rabbis concurred that Isaiah 53 was a prediction of the Messiah, by medieval times the pressure from those who applied this prophecy to Jesus was so great that Rashi, that greatest medieval Biblical scholar, reinterpreted the chapter and said it referred to the nation of Israel. This interpretation is maintained today by many Jewish scholars, though it only dates back to the Middle Ages.

What, then, are some of the credentials of the Messiah? Only a few can be listed below; there are many others. All of these passages were recognized by the early rabbis as referring to the Messiah:

Messiah was to be born at Bethlehem: Micah 5:1
Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10
Messiah would present himself by riding on an ass: Zechariah 9:9
Messiah would be tortured to death: Psalm 22
Messiah would arrive before the destruction of the Second Temple: Daniel 9:24-27
Messiah's life would match a particular description, including suffering, silence at his arrest and trial, death and burial in a rich man's tomb, and resurrection: Isaiah 52:13-53:12
In detail as to lineage, birthplace, time, and lifestyle, Jesus matched the Messianic expectations of the Hebrew Scriptures. The record of this fulfillment is to be found in the pages of the New Testament. But several other factors combine to further substantiate the Messiahship of Jesus.

In the first place, he claimed to be the Messiah! When a woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming." he replied, "I who speak to you am he."1 Naturally, that doesn't prove anything one way or the other. But if Jesus had never made the claim to be the Messiah, why would we bother to try and prove that he was? His own claim lays the groundwork for the rest of the evidence.

Also, Jesus' life is in sharp contrast to that of the false Messiahs, and it is a positive demonstration of what we would expect the Messiah to do. Thus, Jesus worked many miracles of healing, bringing wholeness into people's lives, forgiving sin and restoring relationships. In contrast with Shabbetai Zevi, for instance, Jesus carried out the Law of Moses as a devout Jew. And in contrast with Bar Kochba, although Jesus also died, he was resurrected!

The resurrection is a third piece of additional evidence, and it is perhaps the most convincing vindication of Jesus' claims. It is interesting that an Israeli scholar, Pinchas Lapide, has written a book which has attracted no small amount of attention in the Jewish community. The reason is that Lapide has said that the resurrection of Jesus is well within the realm of possibility. After all, he reasoned, the Hebrew Scriptures give a number of accounts of people coming back to life. Why not Jesus as well? Regrettably, Lapide fails to note that the resurrection of Jesus is described in terms that go far beyond the resucitations of the other stories; and, he fails to come to grips with the fact that Jesus predicted his own resurrection, which vindicated his claims to Messiahship.

An assortment of explanations has been offered throughout history to explain away the resurrection as either non-historical ("It never happened.") or as non-supernatural ("Here's how it happened."). But these explanations have not been successful. Run down the possibilities for yourself and see which makes the best sense. Did the Roman authorities steal the body of Jesus from the tomb? Then why didn't they produce it when the word started being spread that Jesus was risen? Or maybe the disciples stole it. But could such a fabrication on their part account for the change in their attitude? Three days earlier they were disillusioned, defeated idealists who had hoped that Jesus would bring in a new world order; could a lie which they knew to be a lie, now account for their hope, their boldness in the face of official persecution, and for the high ethical standards they set?

Or perhaps Jesus never died: he just fainted on the cross and revived in the tomb. This idea was popularized in the book The Passover Plot by Hugh Schonfield. Unfortunately the author overlooked the fact that the Romans pierced Jesus' side, which would have most certainly killed him. Also, there was a contingent of Roman soldiers guarding the tomb as well as a huge stone that blocked its entrance. There was no way that a resuscitated Jesus could have escaped and then convinced hundreds of skeptical eyewitnesses that he had conquered death forever! Or was it all a mass hallucination? It must have been quite a hallucination to be seen by vastly different kinds of people at different times of day in many different places. You might be able to fool one person, but can you fool five hundred who saw him at one time? And unlike the pattern of hallucinations, these appearances of the resurrected Jesus stopped as suddenly as they started, forty days after the resurrection took place.

The only satisfactory explanation is that the resurrection actually occurred, just as the record says. And if that's the case, it's a solid reason for accepting the Messiahship of Jesus.

Finally, Jesus transforms people's lives. Because he provides atonement for sin and reconciliation with God, Jesus brings peace, joy, and purpose into people's lives. Apart from faith in him, there is no basis for true peace or direction, for as the psalmist says, "Man is estranged from the womb." That this estrangement is healed by the reconciling ministry of Jesus is the common experience of those who believe in him.

So, between the objective evidence of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, and the subjective verification in our own lives--we think there's ample evidence that Jesus was who he claimed to be!

[rez]

Quote by: Rog you know what is odd? Christians have faith in a perfect creator, atheist have faith in faulty man.

Faith? I have faith that man can discover the unknown? Haven't we been doing that for the past million years? From making a fire, building a wheel, to sending cameras in space....

Christians are the ones that have faith Rog. You need to learn some things.

Edit to Add: And there is yet another theist on the boards doubting Biology. Doubting it not because it sucks at explaining what it says it explains, but because it conflicts with their superstitions. We have hundreds of threads here with theists saying the same stuff over and over again and none of them ever learning from it. Rog, go check the science forum and learn something before you speak please.

[Rogue Cardinal]

Quote by: Rog Christians believe on the teachings of Christ. OT is a reference book of what "not to do" We do not want to be like the Jew.

The OT is YOUR God's laws and words. The Old Testament HOLDS the only prophesies of your boy Jesus H. Christ. So by you basically peeing on it.....you are peeing on your own religion.

Try this instead......refute the points....instead of wasting everyones time with drivel.

[Rogue Cardinal]

Quote by: evensaul Rogue, are you claiming authorship of the original post, or would you like to name the author?

Rabbi Simmons. A Jew none the less.

I found it very interesting and was hoping that some Christian would be up to the task.

I just bet that's not gonna happen.

[Rogue Cardinal]

This is not to say that all Jewish people rejected the claims of Jesus. Far from that being the case, all the first followers of Jesus were Jews. In fact, the rabbis of that time period and afterwards were well aware of the many Messianic prophecies which Christians claimed were fulfilled in Jesus. So for instance, although the Talmudic rabbis concurred that Isaiah 53 was a prediction of the Messiah, by medieval times the pressure from those who applied this prophecy to Jesus was so great that Rashi, that greatest medieval Biblical scholar, reinterpreted the chapter and said it referred to the nation of Israel. This interpretation is maintained today by many Jewish scholars, though it only dates back to the Middle Ages.

Let me start by saying that I appreciate you posting this. Isaiah 53 is GOOD reading. I had not read that before. Many thanks. Something for me to think about.

What, then, are some of the credentials of the Messiah? Only a few can be listed below; there are many others. All of these passages were recognized by the early rabbis as referring to the Messiah: Messiah was to be born at Bethlehem: Micah 5:1

Alright.....the good stuff. I will use the New testament to discuss this stuff as it serves me well. I'd like to point out though that Micah doesn't say this in 5:1.....it's actually in 5:2.

I would also point out that if you keep reading Micah 5......you will find that JEsus did NONE of the things that were promised in this prophecy other than seemingly be born in Bethleham. For example by the time you get to Micah 5:10......well The Messiah would be like a military leader....which is part of what the Jews thought the Messiah would be. So Jesus only fits a PART of this prophesy.

The New testament handles this matter in an interesting way.
Matthew starts at Bethlaham. Right at the birth. Now what I find odd is WHY they are even there. They are after all from Nazareth.....so over to Luke we must go to find the answer. Let's ssee what he says.

Luke 2:1-4
"In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman World. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to his own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlaham to the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David."

What I find interesting about this bold part is that it doesn't make ANY sense. David lived 1,000 years BEFORE Joseph. It doesn't even make sense at all historically to have to answer to a census in this fashion. It appears to me that the writers are trying to place Jesus there while fudging on the details. Why would you go and answer a census because of a 1,000 year dead relative? ODD

Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10

No argument here. That's what I said in my OP. But I will take a slant on this in a bit.

Messiah would present himself by riding on an ass: Zechariah 9:9

The real issue with this....is that when the Messiah comes he will unite the kingdoms of Israel. It's easy to snatch a verse out of a chapter, but is it right to ignore the rest of the words? This is HUGE in why the Jews don't think that Jesus was the Messiah. When Jesus rode the donkey into the city....he didn't unite the Kingdoms of Isreal. All he did was ride a donkey. When the Messiah came it was going to at that second bring peace.....and it didn't.

Zechariah 9:10 (aka the next line)
"I will take away the chariots from Ephraim and the war-horses from Jerusalem, and the battle bow will be broken. He will proclaim peace to all nations. His rule will extend from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the Earth."

According to the prophesy THIS should have already happened if Jesus was the messiah.

Messiah would be tortured to death: Psalm 22

This makes no sense at all. Psalm 22 is a prayer that David wrote. It was QUOTED supposedly by Jesus on the Cross.....it's NOT prophesy at all.

PLEASE explain how this is a depiction of the Messiah suffering. To suggest it makes no sense.

Messiah would arrive before the destruction of the Second Temple: Daniel 9:24-27

Yeah but he was supposed to make the third temple.....Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). didnt' quite do that did he?

Messiah's life would match a particular description, including suffering, silence at his arrest and trial, death and burial in a rich man's tomb, and resurrection: Isaiah 52:13-53:12

I am going to have to spend more time on this one. By far the BEST thing any Christian has ever offered up to me. Truly cool.

In detail as to lineage, birthplace, time, and lifestyle, Jesus matched the Messianic expectations of the Hebrew Scriptures. The record of this fulfillment is to be found in the pages of the New Testament. But several other factors combine to further substantiate the Messiahship of Jesus.

Here is a big misstep and I alluded to this earlier as something I would address later....now is the time.

With details to lineage the New testament makes ABSURD claims that do no favors to prop Jesus up as the Messiah. Matthew opens up wtih the lineage of Jesus, but he traces it through Joseph. This is HIGHLY illogical. Joseph is of the line of David according to Luke.....but what the hell does THAT have to do with JEsus? The Father of Jesus is GOD. The mother of Jesus is Mary. Neither are of the line of David.

The only other account of the lineage is the end of the third chapter of Luke. At this point we must note. that Luke does the EXACT same thing as Matthew. He traces Jesus through Joseph?!?! That doesn't make any sense at all. But what's worse is that EVERY name on this list is entirely different than the account in Matthew.

So we have two lineages.....traced through a nonblood relative.....not one name matches up. It would appear that this is a desperation attempt to justify Jesus as a Messiah based on lineage but according to what is IN the New Testament....it's a farce. Whom should we believe? Matthew or Luke?

Furthermore as I pointed out there is a mistranslation. The Jewish tradition says that the Messiah will not be the SON of God....but the son of two humans. Reference "alma"

[Sinner]

Rogue Cardinal 1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will: A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4) D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

Either through ignorance or deliberatly, you give as attributes of jewish "messiah" who of course according to Christian Doctrine is the Anti-Christ.

Interestingly enough, you try to build you argument on jewish sources. Mind you modern judaism is response to Christianity not the 5000 years old religion it pretends to be.

Another interesting observation, is that an "atheist" is often simply a Christ-hater. Anti-Christian religions just don't come under attack by atheists.

It is always Bible, Christ, Church that they want to discredit. Somehow sinagogues, satanic orgies etc. escape atheist's attention.