Why should a person even pray?

[Jack]

I would have said Coincidence! But I feel inside there is a lot more to it.

Here's where I see religion cheating you. Had you not assumed that god was responsible for these events, had you examined the situation through humanistic eyes, perhaps you would have seen where you were responsible for making the changes that bettered your life. The next time you were in despair, you would have counted on your inner strength of character to get you through, knowing that that's what happened the last time. The way it is now, if that circumstance should ever repeat, you have to start at square one, hoping that god once again decides to create circumstances that will be to your benefit.

By introducing the element of god into our lives we introduce uncertainty and helplessness. If you truly believe in god's guidance, and he should fail to guide you, you have nothing to fall back on except blame (i.e. your sinful, unworthy nature).

he was about loving each other and peace

I'm all for that, many humanists are as well. There's no need for a god to be loving and peaceful. I see the gods as the cause of much of the strife and war going on in the world today. As a serious advocate of love and peace, I have to oppose religious influence and encourage the humanistic view of life. When we realize that we're all humans, that there are no insurmountable differences between us, then peace and love can freely flow.

[aseeker]

Quote by: Jack Here's where I see religion cheating you. Had you not assumed that god was responsible for these events, had you examined the situation through humanistic eyes, perhaps you would have seen where you were responsible for making the changes that bettered your life. The next time you were in despair, you would have counted on your inner strength of character to get you through, knowing that that's what happened the last time. The way it is now, if that circumstance should ever repeat, you have to start at square one, hoping that god once again decides to create circumstances that will be to your benefit. By introducing the element of god into our lives we introduce uncertainty and helplessness. If you truly believe in god's guidance, and he should fail to guide you, you have nothing to fall back on except blame (i.e. your sinful, unworthy nature). I'm all for that, many humanists are as well. There's no need for a god to be loving and peaceful. I see the gods as the cause of much of the strife and war going on in the world today. As a serious advocate of love and peace, I have to oppose religious influence and encourage the humanistic view of life. When we realize that we're all humans, that there are no insurmountable differences between us, then peace and love can freely flow.

I agree with most of these concepts but I look at them a little differently. My experience is that belief in God strengthens our inner character rather than weakens it. His Spirit is always with us, as Jesus says, and connects us with Him, where there is infinite strength and with others, where there is always need for compassion. Humanistic instincts are good, I was a Humanist for many years, but to realize that it was also what Jesus was talking about was an epiphany for me. Whether you or I think God exists or not does not change the truth, and if we seek the truth we one day will find it. Indeed we are all human and we CAN solve our differences hopefully. I just happen to believe, in addition to it, that we are all created by and loved by God. I don't feel cheated, I feel blessed. By the way, I do NOT believe that "non-believers" go to Hell.

[rez]

Quote by: aseeker Talking to God has had better results.

Thats the argument. One side says that talking to god does not give results the other side says talking to god does work.


Since you say there are results, then they can be tested and understood in reality. The camp that says talking to god has worked has failed miserably to meet expectations.

Worshiping the Creator also tends to make us less self-centered than worshiping ourselves - in case any of us have trouble with that.

So you think atheists worship themselves.

Tell me, since when does worshiping yourself ever turn out to be good in any situation? Why would any smart human being ever want to do such a thing?

Naturally I want to strive to be empathetic. Notice how I said naturally.

[rez]

Quote by: aseeker By the way, I do NOT believe that "non-believers" go to Hell.

Take note ladies and gentlemen. Us atheists are arguing a bunch of people who think that "belief" makes something real.



You can believe atheists don't go to hell, but I want you to prove that atheists don't go to hell because I also have to contend with a bunch of people who do actually believe atheists go to hell. Same goes for praying, you say it works, well then show me. Give me a reason to think you are correct in your claims.

[aseeker]

Quote by: rez Thats the argument. One side says that talking to god does not give results the other side says talking to god does work. Since you say there are results, then they can be tested and understood in reality. The camp that says talking to god has worked has failed miserably to meet expectations. So you think atheists worship themselves. Tell me, since when does worshiping yourself ever turn out to be good in any situation? Why would any smart human being ever want to do such a thing? Naturally I want to strive to be empathetic. Notice how I said naturally.

The camp I talk to has had great results - depends on who you talk to I guess.

We agree, no smart person would worship himself. I was talking I think about praying to God (as many people do with no bad results), as opposed to talking to yourself (which some believe to be unhealthy).

[aseeker]

Quote by: rez Thats the argument. One side says that talking to god does not give results the other side says talking to god does work. Since you say there are results, then they can be tested and understood in reality. The camp that says talking to god has worked has failed miserably to meet expectations. So you think atheists worship themselves. Tell me, since when does worshiping yourself ever turn out to be good in any situation? Why would any smart human being ever want to do such a thing? Naturally I want to strive to be empathetic. Notice how I said naturally.

Quote by: rez Take note ladies and gentlemen. Us atheists are arguing a bunch of people who think that "belief" makes something real. You can believe atheists don't go to hell, but I want you to prove that atheists don't go to hell because I also have to contend with a bunch of people who do actually believe atheists go to hell. Same goes for praying, you say it works, well then show me. Give me a reason to think you are correct in your claims.

What I mean by believe is that it is my opinion. In other words I do not agree with those who do say Atheists go to Hell. There is very little in this world we can actually prove. As a research engineer I deal with probabilities of happenings. I do not want to assess the probability that you or I go to Hell either. I do not even try to convince Atheists of my opinions, I just say neither you nor I should have a closed mind but should keep seeking. Another opinion: niether of us really knows the wholeTruth.