A theist insult.

[SoylentGreen]

Theists make the claim that those who choose not to believe in god will be sent to hell for eternity.
I consider that the statement is actually an insult, and my reasons for this are.
1. The theist is taking on an attitude that they are a parent and that atheists are children . The statement is equivalent to telling children that they must obey or face punishment.
This is an insult because atheists are not children. Theists should not behave as parents. Any interaction should be on adult to adult level otherwise it is an insult.

2. the theist may argue that they believe this message and it is their duty to pass it on, no insult intended.
However this is the same as a white supremacist who may sincerely believe that that as an Aryan he is superior to all other races and has the right to rule them.
This is an insult to other races in the same way as the theist message is to atheists.

I can not speak for all atheists so my question to them is , do you agree, and if not why.

To the theists I ask why should you be allowed to insult people who do not follow your belief.
Especially as you claim that your morals are grounded in the bible.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. [Matthew 7:120]. .
So if you do not wish to be insulted , then do not insult.

[HelioPrime]

Because most theists don't see it as in insult, it's just part of belief. People who don't believe go to hell according to belief. So are you asking people to put aside that belief just because it doesn't fit in to todays modern pluralistic society?

Did you even consider that type of attitude is insulting to theists? Asking them to modify religion at a whim to better fit in with a more liberal world view you feel all people should hold?

[Matt W]

Rubbish. Certainly, condemning some to hell can be said in an insulting or mocking fashion, but at the end of the day, it's a statement of beliefs.

[Jack]

I'm not insulted when others try to condemn me to a place that doesn't exist. I find it amusing.

[tivodan1116]

Thread title and OP are wrong.

They say "theist" when what they mean is "some Christians".

[ShadowFox]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Thread title and OP are wrong. They say "theist" when what they mean is "some Christians".

Well, it can be argued that since only theists would use that as an insult, it can be considered a theistic insult since it is condemning people to something that is believed to be a place of torment.

As for me, i'm like jack. I wont say anything, but i'll just kind of laugh to myself.

[inri]

I suppose it would depend 'how' they said it..if it was said with relish...as often seems to happen in debates with Christian Zealots....As though they're thrilled to be able to tell you that you're going to burn for eternity in the hellfires of damnation...In this case, I'm generally aware that the statement is intended to wound

But often this statement is delivered with condescension ...which is thiny disguised as pity...this delivery is generally more annoying than the first...

But I agree, for the most part when someone religious tells another they're going to hell, it is a statement/reflection of their beliefs...as I've come to see those who follow the bible word for word rarely question these teachings. They're simply regurgitating what they've been fed.

[SoylentGreen]

HelioPrimeDid you even consider that type of attitude is insulting to theists? Asking them to modify religion at a whim to better fit in with a more liberal world view you feel all people should hold?

I did consider it. But I have reasons for considering it theists only believe it.
Have you sen the state of the modern church religion does change with the times, it always has.

Matt WRubbish. Certainly, condemning some to hell can be said in an insulting or mocking fashion, but at the end of the day, it's a statement of beliefs.

Like telling your child if he wets the bed the boogey man will take him away. Not an effective or even good way to treat a child. let alone an adult.

Jack I'm not insulted when others try to condemn me to a place that doesn't exist. I find it amusing.

Even if you rise above it and turn a cheek, you are still turning your cheek to an insult.

tivodan1116 They say "theist" when what they mean is "some Christians".

I am not sure how true that is now , there has been a couple of people who quote the bible but claim not to be christians.

Halofan48 As for me, i'm like jack. I wont say anything, but i'll just kind of laugh to myself.

How you choose to react isn't the issue , what it is you are reacting to is.

inri But I agree, for the most part when someone religious tells another they're going to hell, it is a statement/reflection of their beliefs..

Which serves no other purpose than, like an aryan to claim superiority and like a parent to scare. Both insulting to the listener.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: SoylentGreen I am not sure how true that is now , there has been a couple of people who quote the bible but claim not to be christians.

But there are billions of theists who do not believe in hell, and even some Christians who do not.

So your statement that this is a "theist" insult is patently invalid.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: tivodan1116 But there are billions of theists who do not believe in hell, and even some Christians who do not. So your statement that this is a "theist" insult is patently invalid.

Fine then read christian where you see theist.

[Maryjane]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Theists make the claim that those who choose not to believe in god will be sent to hell for eternity. I consider that the statement is actually an insult, and my reasons for this are. 1. The theist is taking on an attitude that they are a parent and that atheists are children . The statement is equivalent to telling children that they must obey or face punishment. This is an insult because atheists are not children. Theists should not behave as parents. Any interaction should be on adult to adult level otherwise it is an insult. 2. the theist may argue that they believe this message and it is their duty to pass it on, no insult intended. However this is the same as a white supremacist who may sincerely believe that that as an Aryan he is superior to all other races and has the right to rule them. This is an insult to other races in the same way as the theist message is to atheists. I can not speak for all atheists so my question to them is , do you agree, and if not why. To the theists I ask why should you be allowed to insult people who do not follow your belief. Especially as you claim that your morals are grounded in the bible. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. [Matthew 7:120]. . So if you do not wish to be insulted , then do not insult.

You are looking at it all wrong! They say it because they LOVE you and want you to experience god's love! They want to save you from yourself. You aren't a child...you are a fool! You know not what you do! (famous last words and all)

You know...I've had some strange dealings with christians. I went to the funeral home to pick up death certificates. I received a 4 page hand written letter from a stranger that was sent to the funeral home telling me about god's love and the fires of hell. Another girl went out to her car to get her bible to show my sister the scriptures where my husband was going to hell. It freaked my sister out so much she stopped being a christian. If they had any idea how many people they turned away with this kind of talk, they'd reconsider their marketing ploys. It amuses the hell out of me...pun intended. It's rude yeah, but I turn the other cheek and think to myself...and I thought my life was shitty? which makes it even funnier. <shrug>

[inri]

Which serves no other purpose than, like an aryan to claim superiority and like a parent to scare. Both insulting to the listener.[/quote]




...yeah, you're right, it's a totally nasty thing to say to another person regardless of how firmly you believe it. It would be the same as a health practitioner walking by an obese person declaring "you're gonna be dead in 2 years"...completely unnecessary and rude.

[Gregory]

As a semiChristian I would never tell someone they are going to hell. Whether or not it is an insult is up to the recipient of the comment. I imagine a Christian would typically say such a thing as a copout for having doubts about on their own faith. A Christian cannot possibly know whether or not someone else is going to hell; to judge such a thing is to play God- which is probably more a sin than whatever it was the Christian was judging the atheist for doing.

[wyoguy]

I was wondering... does a semi-Christian only get sent to heck?

My stance: It's supposed to be offensive. Every bit of it. Eternal judgement? A crucified savior? Living for God's glory and not your own? There is very little on the surface of Christianity that is appealing.

If your looking for a religion that is fluffy and gentler on your sensitivities, you might look into Buddhism. Nobody ever picks on the Buddhists. For that matter, I don't notice that any religion, save Christianity, gets much attention in here. Muslim extremists are crashing jet liners into buildings but that's not nearly as threatening as those fascist Christians that think that a baby shouldn't have to pay, with it's very life, for the sexual irresponsibility of it's parents. In India, a citizen must submit to police interrogation before they can convert to anything other than Hindu. This pales in comparison to those selfish, prudish Christians that insist that the institution of marriage remain the exclusive right of heterosexual couples.

I will admit that there are more than just a few real nutbags out there that call themselves Christians, and what motivates them to add their own offensiveness to an already offensive message escapes me.

I have to wonder, though, about what would spur all this virulence towards Christianity. Every group, religious or otherwise, has it's fair share of nutbags. Why single out Christianity as the bane of the civilized world? Not so very long ago, when a Native American infant cried, it would be placed outside the camp until it stopped. This way the child learns that crying is not going to achieve attention. Its not good to have a squalling kid around when you're hunting or being hunted. If Christianity is as trivial, passe, and nonsensical as it is made out to be, wouldn't it make better sense to just ignore it? If mankind is truly, collectively evolving, surely we could just kick back and let religion go the way of the Dodo.

I don't think that the atheists are being honest when they say that they don't proselytise. I think that they are actively attacking the only religion that they percieve as a threat....Christianity.

[Jack]

I don't think that the atheists are being honest when they say that they don't proselytise. I think that they are actively attacking the only religion that they percieve as a threat....Christianity.

This tells me you haven't read my blogs or any books by Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins, among many others. The only reason you'll see more debates about Christianity here is that it's the religious choice of more forum members than any other single religion.

Atheism is the disbelief in all gods. Socially aware atheists are as opposed to degrading and unacceptable practices in Islam as much as we are those practiced by Christians. We are as incredulous at the bizarre beliefs of Scientology as we are at the quaint beliefs of Mennonites.

Pointing out the nonsensical nature of religious belief isn't "attacking", it's providing enlightenment. How in the world can Christianity "threaten" atheism? Only one way...by providing evidence that proves their god exists.

[Chris]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Thread title and OP are wrong. They say "theist" when what they mean is "some Christians".

Quote by: tivodan1116 But there are billions of theists who do not believe in hell, and even some Christians who do not. So your statement that this is a "theist" insult is patently invalid.

Do you have any evidence that there are "billions" (i.e. more than two billion) of theists do not believe in hell? Also Define "some" Christians. Give us a finite number. Point me in the right direction please. The onus is on you to provide this evidence.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: wyoguy I don't think that the atheists are being honest when they say that they don't proselytise. I think that they are actively attacking the only religion that they percieve as a threat....Christianity.

I think you have the right idea but I'd spread it to include Islam as well. Because they are both facets of a similar stance. Both have followers who can be extreme or moderate but both have the amazing ability to adapt and spread even in the modern world. Heck by 2050 half the population of france is supposed to be Islamic, with large numbers in many other counties where immigrant followers of Islam will outnumbers static or declining european populations. Christianity is the same, it spreads continually especially in the third world and among the massive US suburbs. Only in the select cities can those opposed really congregate where they try to gain power just within the city to "pluralize" the rest of the world into an all accepting stance of believing everyone is equal and great. And once your at that step then why not become an atheist! It's a war for the mind. And your up against the side that uses pleasures and basic vices to the full extent, promoting them not as vices or wrongs, but basic pleasures all humans should experiment with. It's teaching secularism by leading kids down a trail with treats then letting them make the final step.

[SoylentGreen]

wyoguyI have to wonder, though, about what would spur all this virulence towards Christianity.

Which is why I said theist, not christian.
Islamics have a hell to, so why just pick on christians. And I am finding more and more that the theists here are very quick to claim that whatever particular belief an atheist is pointing to is not their particular belief. So it would not surprise me now to see some theists denying that they believe in hell.

[thrashee]

Quote by: Chris Do you have any evidence that there are "billions" (i.e. more than two billion) of theists do not believe in hell? Also Define "some" Christians. Give us a finite number. Point me in the right direction please. The onus is on you to provide this evidence.

I certainly don't have numbers for you. However, what I can provide is simply this: theists are those who believe in a god, or multiple gods (or goddesses). Believing in hell really has nothing to do with believing in a place of eternal damnation, unless you're a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. In other words, it's a pretty Old Testament concept.

Even Buddhists' belief in samsara doesn't equate to hell.

[thrashee]

I'm sorry, I need to clarify my last post to read:

Believing in God (or Godesses) really has nothing to do with believing in a place of eternal damnation