Is God really perfect?

[Eraldo Coil]

Perfection is defined as A) being without flaw B) accurate, exact. if you are completely without flaw, then you can never make a mistake. in the same way, God can never make a mistake. if God can never make a mistake, then God must be able to determine the results of his actions before he makes them. in other words, he can predict the future, and because he cant make a mistake, his predictions must always be true. now that i have that established we can move on.

when man ate the forbidden fruit, God cast them out of Eden. Because god is perfect and can predict the future, God must have known that Man would sin if he gave them the ability to choose. The Bible also says that God created the heavens, the Earth, and everything on the earth. the last thing he created was mankind. all of this took six days. Now after he “finished” creating the Earth, he took the seventh day off. Yet the Earth wasn’t really finished, it has many problems even today. He either took time off because he was tired, or because he wanted us to sufffer and deal with the problems, which would make him evil, which is a flaw, making him not perfect.

finally greed is defined as "Excessive desire for more than one needs or deserves" which according to the Bible is a seven deadly sin. Psalm 150:6 states "Let everything that has breath praise the LORD. Praise the LORD!" God is asking every living, breathing organism to praise him, this is surely greed, therefore, God is not perfect because greed is a flaw.

Those were just my thoughts, feel free to argue.

[SoylentGreen]

Nothing is flawless. After all there is nothing in nothing to be flawed. So if we consider god as not existing , a perfect nothingness then yes he must by definition be flawless.

[Maryjane]

Congratulations on your critical thinking skills.
I've wondered how satan could be more powerful than god? Why didn't god just get rid of him and be done with it?

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Maryjane Congratulations on your critical thinking skills. I've wondered how satan could be more powerful than god? Why didn't god just get rid of him and be done with it?

Because then the theists wouldn't have a place to tell the atheists to go to after they convincingly rubbish the theists points.

[Jinei]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Nothing is flawless. After all there is nothing in nothing to be flawed. So if we consider god as not existing , a perfect nothingness then yes he must by definition be flawless.

It's funny you say that. I think the Bhuddists believe their god is so perfect it doesn't have to exist

[Rogue Cardinal]

If you study God through the Jewish tradition God is NOT perfect. IF you pay close attention to the flood story God actually repented making man....which means he felt bad doing it.....which means he had regret....which means he's not perfect.

He can't be too perfect.....he got beat by Jacob in a wrestling match. He had to CHEAT to get out of it and acknowledged Jacob as the winner.

It is only the Christian tradition that makes God perfectly perfect. Which means that they complete do not understand nor read the Old Testament at all.

[Jack]

The rules have always been different for the gods than for mortal men. When humans invent gods, they know they can't reasonably define a perfect being, perfection not having any generally accepted definition beyond "without flaw", so they excuse the gods for their "human" attributes by saying that when the gods behave imperfectly our perception is at fault. When we behave imperfectly it's our fault. We create the gods then chastise ourselves for making them imperfect.

[Dadoo]

I see God and Satan as two faces on one being.
And perfect is as perfect does. The book definition of "flawless" is another opinion. One man's garbage is another's bread and butter, so..
If that cracked vase is "perfect" for it's function to hold my dried flowers, Then perhaps, in this context, the God you refer to is "perfect, as-is"; since bothe perspectives are again, opinion- bound.
The eye of the beholder dictates what is and isn't perfect. It is you who decides if God is "flawless" or needs to be "repaired".
A loose sense of metaphor and definition must be applied to all religious documents, unless one did not want to understand. OTW we are perplexed and irritated!

[Sonart]

.

Is God really perfect?

Uhhhh.... what god?





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[Thanatos]

Of course he's not perfect. Have you seen the Galapagos cormorant's wings or the foot bones he stuck on whales? Drugs were definitely involved in the design of this planet.

[HelioPrime]

God is perfect or at least in whatever understanding of that word would apply to God. Human perceptions of perfection are alterable and humans themselves are never perfect. If we were then what would the point of any sort of judgement be.

The fact this is being discussed clarifies the position. If everything created was perfect then there would be no discussion over it. What is created doesn't need depend on how perfect the creator is.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Eraldo Coil Perfection is defined as A) being without flaw B) accurate, exact. if you are completely without flaw, then you can never make a mistake. in the same way, God can never make a mistake. if God can never make a mistake, then God must be able to determine the results of his actions before he makes them. in other words, he can predict the future, and because he cant make a mistake, his predictions must always be true. now that i have that established we can move on. when man ate the forbidden fruit, God cast them out of Eden. Because god is perfect and can predict the future, God must have known that Man would sin if he gave them the ability to choose. The Bible also says that God created the heavens, the Earth, and everything on the earth. the last thing he created was mankind. all of this took six days. Now after he “finished” creating the Earth, he took the seventh day off. Yet the Earth wasn’t really finished, it has many problems even today. He either took time off because he was tired, or because he wanted us to sufffer and deal with the problems, which would make him evil, which is a flaw, making him not perfect. finally greed is defined as "Excessive desire for more than one needs or deserves" which according to the Bible is a seven deadly sin. Psalm 150:6 states "Let everything that has breath praise the LORD. Praise the LORD!" God is asking every living, breathing organism to praise him, this is surely greed, therefore, God is not perfect because greed is a flaw. Those were just my thoughts, feel free to argue.

The Bible is not a God. The Bible is not perfect nor did it give us a discription of a perfect god according to our modern human standards of perfectionism.

And so that pretty much sums it all up in one lump.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: Eraldo Coil Those were just my thoughts, feel free to argue.

While your observations are hardly original, they are nonetheless entirely correct. When people consider the things God is supposed to be -- all-present, all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good -- and really think through what these would mean, they quickly find that the atributes contradict each other and the observable world.

The contradiction that hits people hardest is between being perfectly good and powerful enough to change anything. If such a being existed, the world could be expected to be a much, much better place. This is such a problem for religion that the field of apologetics, itself the PR wing of the church, has spawned a special branch called theodicy, concerned solely with reconciling the existence of evil and suffering with the existence of the sort of all-perfect God outlined above. So far, they've come up with a lot of really, really lame answers. :-)

TC

[Jack]

Is God really perfect?

That question presumes both god and perfection have substance, can be consistently and concisely defined and are accepted as valid. I contend those presumptions. Those concepts lack credibility.

[Rogue Cardinal]

By the way....for those of you that want to study up on how God became perfect......the answer is in Hellenism.

Hebrew.....they might say El Shaddai....which means God is sufficient. Wow that's not perfect. That's more like good enough. The Talmud explains it this way, it says that "Shaddai" stands for "Mi she'Amar Dai L'olamo" - "He who said 'Enough' to His world. Also said is Adoni...which is Lord....more like a respectiful title. I would call you Mr. or Mrs. they say Lord.

But back to El shaddai.....when this stuff went to GREEK.....they translated the word from shaddad. This is the root word. This literally means to overpower or destroy. Thus God became....Almighty.

[Tycoon]

A perfect being cannot make an imperfect creation.

Also, if God is truly perfect, and omnipotent, and omniscient, then God does not have free will, for he can only make one choice, the perfect choice. Therefore, the bible's story contradicts itself.

[Jack_Sparrow]

Quote by: Tycoon A perfect being cannot make an imperfect creation.

I dont see why not...

[Jack_Sparrow]

Quote by: Jack That question presumes both god and perfection have substance, can be consistently and concisely defined and are accepted as valid. I contend those presumptions. Those concepts lack credibility.

I agree. I dont think anything can logically be perfect in every aspect simultaniously without causing contradictions. I do however think that relative to us, some things could merit the description as approximately perfect

[Rogue Cardinal]

Quote by: Tycoon A perfect being cannot make an imperfect creation. Also, if God is truly perfect, and omnipotent, and omniscient, then God does not have free will, for he can only make one choice, the perfect choice. Therefore, the bible's story contradicts itself.

Well for arguments sake.....freewill was for man. There is nothing that says God has freewill or should have.

Again I refer you to my line of thought that parallels the Jewish tradition and the Christian tradition.

You have to understand the the word "Israel" means "to struggle with God". The Jews literally struggled with God. You find it all over the Old Testament. God does something great for the Jews......they turn around a second later and start worshiping idols again.....so God punishes the shit out of them....only to do something nice for them again...and so on and so forth. Jewish people argue with God. When they say in the Bible "Why God......." they are not just talking up to the Heaven's....it's more like a literal conversation. They have the ear of God. Permanently.

It's CLEAR in the Old Testament God makes mistakes. He experiments. Want to have fun with a Christian? Ask them about the Nephilim. They won't really want to talk about that. But it's in the bible. Genesis Chapter 6:4.

At any rate....god doesn't become perfect till Hellenism. It's a translation thing. One simple thing has ruined an entire religion. Kinda funny. Most Christians....don't even know it. But it's a FACT.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: Jack_Sparrow I agree. I dont think anything can logically be perfect in every aspect simultaniously without causing contradictions. I do however think that relative to us, some things could merit the description as approximately perfect

Stop it, you're making me blush!

TC