Is the death penalty justified in certain circumstances?

[LaW]

I think that it mostly depends on the circumstances of the situation.
But if I were to generalize...

I think that having a death penalty and killing killers is just "sweeping the dirt under the carpet."

If a death penalty was made, it would definetly deter one from killing, but how long that is going to last is as long as how we want to make it.

I think that the goverment should work more on rehabilitating and treating the criminal through pyschiatics and medicines. If we were to focus more on them, it will help the criminal become better (in theory of course).

But that definetly does not change the fact that (we'll just say a murderer) a murderer has killed some one.

There definetly has to be some form of punishment, but not as harsh as the death penalty.

But again, it all depends on certain circumstances, and again, I'm just generalizing

[davedes]

Quote by: sgrainger i think the death penalty should be brought back into uk law. i think it is a good punishment because, and i'm gonna be a typical 17 year old here, if you take someone else's life then you don't deserve to have your own. period. i also believe that the threat of the death penalty would decrease the homicide rate significantly. evidently, some kill out of passion are not likely to be threatened by the death penalty but for those who do not kill out of passion, the death penalty is going to be great deterrent. i know you're all probably going to disagree with me here but i welcome your counter-arguments.

You argue that any act in which you "take someone else's life" deserves to be punishable by death. But you seem to forget that the act of killing a criminal -- be it by hanging, firing squad, lethal injection, etc -- is taking someone else's life.

I can see very few justifications for the death penalty in our current Western society. Personal revenge should not be supported by the government.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." - Gandhi

Quote by: LaW I think that the goverment should work more on rehabilitating and treating the criminal through pyschiatics and medicines. If we were to focus more on them, it will help the criminal become better (in theory of course).

I agree.

I feel that a lot of potential lies in drug therapies (e.g. LSD therapy).

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: LaW I think that it mostly depends on the circumstances of the situation. But if I were to generalize... I think that having a death penalty and killing killers is just "sweeping the dirt under the carpet." If a death penalty was made, it would definetly deter one from killing, but how long that is going to last is as long as how we want to make it. I think that the goverment should work more on rehabilitating and treating the criminal through pyschiatics and medicines. If we were to focus more on them, it will help the criminal become better (in theory of course).

That's going to cost a LOT of money. Totally not feasible. And most criminals with a mental illness have a anti-social disorder which is INCREDIBLY difficult to treat.

[sgrainger]

Quote by: LaW I think that the goverment should work more on rehabilitating and treating the criminal through pyschiatics and medicines. If we were to focus more on them, it will help the criminal become better (in theory of course).

that is just the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard! rehabilitating murderers... hmmm... if you say so. the best medicine for them is the lethal injection. period.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: sgrainger i think the death penalty should be brought back into uk law. i think it is a good punishment because, and i'm gonna be a typical 17 year old here, if you take someone else's life then you don't deserve to have your own. period..

Period? Shall I come up with a few examples where the taking of a life might include manslaughter , or the involuntary taking of life.
Should a mother backing out of a driveway and accidentally running over her own child be included in that?

i also believe that the threat of the death penalty would decrease the homicide rate significantly.

And what do you base this unsupported assumption on.

evidently, some kill out of passion are not likely to be threatened by the death penalty but for those who do not kill out of passion, the death penalty is going to be great deterrent.

Or perhaps a good reason not to be obvious in there actions.

By the way remember a while back those two boys who kidnapped a small child from a mall and then deliberately killed him. Do you think it appropriate in that situation that two 13 year old (I think that's how old they were ) should be executed?

[davedes]

Quote by: sgrainger that is just the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard! rehabilitating murderers... hmmm... if you say so. the best medicine for them is the lethal injection. period.

Rehabilitation has shown to work wonders for certain individuals.

I've always enjoyed this clip about Norway. No death penalty, and no life sentence. The video also gives you a taste of Bastøy Prison, which rehabilitates murderers, rapists and child molesters in a friendly island community!
LiveLeak.com - The Worlds Best Country to live in

[another day]

i also believe that the threat of the death penalty would decrease the homicide rate significantly.

Well sorry, this may have been erroneously posted in the religion section, but it doesn't matter what you "believe" because that is not true.

Studies have shown a death penalty does nothing to reduce homicide rates and the reasoning is obvious.

The majority of homicides are not premeditated. The majority of murderers do not reoffend. The majority of homicides happen under heat of the moment circumstances. In these situations, a threat of punishment, no matter how severe does nothing to dissuade a murder because the perpetrator is not thinking about that kind of thing when he commits the crime, and probably not thinking about much at all.

Those that do premeditate murders are not operating on a risk evaluation basis. They are operating under the idea that they will NOT be caught. Life in prison vs. death penalty is not going to change a persons mind about a premeditated murder.. they wouldn't do it unless they thought they could get away with it completely.

If you instituted the death penalty for shoplifting I can guarantee you there would be an almost 100% drop in shoplifting. But murder, and most violent crime, is different because of it's nature.

[SoylentGreen]

[b]another day[/B ]i also believe that the threat of the death penalty would decrease the homicide rate significantly.

Putting aside murdering someone for murdering another, there are only three things that are an effective way of rehabilitating criminals.
Age religion and women.

[LaW]

That's going to cost a LOT of money. Totally not feasible.

Money < Helping someone

hmmm....

"Hmm, gold, or the world?" -Al Gore (inconvienent truth)

This is like the global warming issue, but thats for a different thread and topic.

And most criminals with a mental illness have a anti-social disorder which is INCREDIBLY difficult to treat

And the criminals without illnesses?

Also, who cares if its difficult.

Hard Work = (usually) satisfaction

and besides, I'm sure if you had a mental illness, you'd want someone to talk to and help you. It's just a matter of finding the right person to treat you.

[LadiesMan217]

Carrying out the death penalty is actually overwhelmingly more expensive than just putting them away for life.

Your source is kind of disingenuous, it seems that it is only more costly due to lawyer fees, but are yout telling me that people with life sentences don't appeal? If you ask me they have just as much motivation to appeal then someone wiht the death penalty.

[Thanatos]

Regardless of whether its a good idea, the death penalty is an empirical failure.

Murder Rates 1996 - 2006

When people set out to commit a violent crime they're usually either stupid, crazy or desperate. If they're stupid they don't think they'll get caught and if they're that desperate they may or may not care about their future.

As Lullaby mentioned many of them are also emotionally disturbed. While this would make them difficult to treat it is also a big part of why the death penalty fails to help states desperate to stop crime; the people they're trying to stop are not rational.

Speaking of statistics, there are also flaws in the U.S. legal system. DNA has rescued many innocent people from death row and presumably there are some cases that still slip through. I don't feel good about this. Even if they can't be rehabilitated they should be kept alive. Make them grow their own food or something.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: LaW Money < Helping someone hmmm.... "Hmm, gold, or the world?" -Al Gore (inconvienent truth) This is like the global warming issue, but thats for a different thread and topic.

You misunderstood me. It's not just expensive.. it's totally-out-of-the-question expensive. So much that the rest of us would suffer just so we can help some losers that are almost incurable. Like I said, anti-social disorders have horrible treatment success rates. You gotta make a better case then, "who cares about money, what's important is helping people."

Quote by: LaW And the criminals without illnesses? Also, who cares if its difficult. Hard Work = (usually) satisfaction

If some guy wants to build a life size replicate of the twin towers out of tooth picks and glue, let him have his fun. But what you're asking is that we all publicly fund the mad man and his tooth pick project.

[LaW]

You misunderstood me. It's not just expensive.. it's totally-out-of-the-question expensive. So much that the rest of us would suffer just so we can help some losers that are almost incurable.

i partly agree with this and get your point.

You gotta make a better case then, "who cares about money, what's important is helping people."

i wish the world was like that, then money wouldn't even be needed and people would just help eachother...

Like I said, anti-social disorders have horrible treatment success rates.

read his/her post and visit site (rehab part starts around 3:48)

Rehabilitation has shown to work wonders for certain individuals. I've always enjoyed this clip about Norway. No death penalty, and no life sentence. The video also gives you a taste of Bastøy Prison, which rehabilitates murderers, rapists and child molesters in a friendly island community! LiveLeak.com - The Worlds Best Country to live in

If some guy wants to build a life size replicate of the twin towers out of tooth picks and glue, let him have his fun. But what you're asking is that we all publicly fund the mad man and his tooth pick project.

give me a replica of this statement, but in a larger scale that would cost alot of money.

[davedes]

Just a note to the above: I was referring to "rehabilitating murderers" in general, not necessarily treatment of antisocial disorder.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer It's justified because it saves lives. There are people who would murder if they weren't afraid of being killed themselves.

Prove it, murders are almost never committed under the assumption that you'll be caught.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Prove it, murders are almost never committed under the assumption that you'll be caught.

After seeing the arguments and sources of others in this thread, I retract my statement. lol

[Gods_Mercenary]

woops, sorry.

[MiSsiNgFaDe2BlK]

yes, the death penalty can be justified in certain cases, many cases in fact. but just because it is justifiable doesnt mean that it is necessarily the best option.
first off, i live in the county in texas with the highest rate of executing prisoners on death row in the state. and if im not mistaken, texas is one of the states with a higher percentage of executions.
personally, i say those who have done something so horrible that they deserve the death penalty should be lined up against a barn wall and shot.
extreme, yes, but still.
but sometimes, dying isnt the worst punishment. sometimes it is the easier way out. isnt it more painful to spend the rest of your life rotting in a cell, rather than having a needle jabbed in your arm and then -- ending it all? it would also be more comforting knowing that the murderer of someone i loved was suffering as much as possible.
and it costs around $3 million a person to executed, if ive read correctly. so by lining everyone up against a barn wall would be much less expensive. but that just brings up the issue of method of capital punishment, which is off topic.
so yes, there are many pros and cons of the death penalty, it just depends on which way you look at it.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer After seeing the arguments and sources of others in this thread, I retract my statement. lol

No harm done. There's some brilliant and impressive quote about changing your mind to prove you still have one that's on the tip of my tongue.

[Technosoul]

Although in other situations for other countries it might be justified but here in the USA I think life in prision should be the general rule and the reason for that is that our justice system is not yet just, and our justice system depends a lot of opinons rather then absolute evidence which evidence can even be planted by the police, or someone who wishes to frame someone else.

A lot of people were released from jail and even death row because new evidence turned up that found they to be not guilty after all. Sometimes Judges will not allow all the evidence to be shown to a jury. Our Justice system cannot be truely depended upon to be perfect enough to allow for captial punishment.

Also, fear of capital punishment might motivate an innocent suspect to confess to a lesser version of the crime duing a flee bargan offer, which is not justice but only intimidation based on the fear factor.