God Is EvIl?

[LaW]

I did not write this. read it somewhere and thought it would be interesting to post here.

Please share your thoughts.

PS: This was written by a teen in a forum discussion about god. Also note that some "i's" were capitalized and look like "L", so try to read it carefully.

I used to be Lutheran, then I started to thInk about the stuff I belIeved and came the conclusIon that If God exIsts, then he Is evIl. and here Is my reasonIng (Its not suited for a forum, but I dont feel lIke modIfyIng It to fIt better. rIght now It Is In essay format) If I were to tell you that God Is evIl, you would probably respond by sayIng "yeah...waIt what?" (GrIf, Red Vs Blue, Ep. 100). but that Is exactly what I am about to argue. to begIn, I must establIsh that the Holy BIble says that God Is perfect. most of my arguments stem from thIs fact, so It Is vItal that I mentIon It here. I wIll begIn by defInIng the word perfect, and descrIbe how thIs relates to God. next, I wIll dIscuss choIce. and fInally, I wIll talk of descrImInatIon. PerfectIon Is defIned as A) beIng wIthout flaw B) accurate, exact. If you are completely wIthout flaw, then you can never make a mIstake. In the same way, God can never make a mIstake. If God can never make a mIstake, then God must be able to determIne the results of hIs actIons before he makes them. In other words, he can predIct the future, and because he cant make a mIstake, hIs predIctIons must always be true. now that I have that establIshed we can move on. Now, the BIble also says that God created man In hIs Image. psychology tells us that In order to be perfect, one must veIw themselves exactly how they are. therefore, God created man exactly lIke hIm, both physIcally and mentally, because God Is perfect. Now, when man ate the forbIdden fruIt, God cast them out of Eden. Because god Is perfect and can predIct the future, God must have known that Man would sIn If he gave them the abIlIty to choose. The BIble also says that God created the heavens, the Earth, and everythIng on the earth. the last thIng he created was mankInd. all of thIs took sIx days. Now after he “fInIshed” creatIng the Earth, he took the seventh day off. Yet the Earth wasn’t really fInIshed, It has many problems stIll. There are really only two reasonable explanatIons for why he would take thIs fInal day off. The fIrst possIbIlIty Is that he Is lazy. The second Is that he dId not wIsh to remove them, because he wanted the creatures of Earth to suffer. Because God Is perfect, God cannot be lazy, because lazIness Is a flaw. therefore, we must conclude that God wIshed the creatures of Earth to suffer. SInce the tIme of Earths creatIon, man has done sIgnIfIcant damage to the Earth, startIng by eatIng the forbIdden fruIt and gettIng themselves and every other beIng cast out of Eden, and more recently, pollutIon, nuclear bombs, and the destructIon of most of Earths forests. And agaIn, because God Is perfect, he must have known that mankInd would damage the world that he created, and eventually wIll be the cause of Its destructIon. Now we have to ask ourselves, why would he create somethIng, just to have It destroyed by another of hIs creatIons? Now, the bIble also says that God Is good, but can’t be true, unless of course he Isn’t perfect. But sInce we are assumIng he Is perfect, than the only reasonable possIbIlIty Is that God Is not good, but he Is In fact evIl. Now, I know that some of you are goIng to argue that God Is good, because he created Earth wIth the abIlIty of choIce. But I belIeve you are forgettIng that he also created heaven. Whereas we have the choIce to belIeve that he exIsts or to belIeve that he doesn’t, on the other hand, the angels have no choIce, they are forced Into obeyIng God, and the only one ever to attempt to defy God was Instantly cast down Into the pIts of Hell. Yes I am referrIng to LucIfer, more commonly known as the DevIl. So at best, you can only argue that God Is neutral, although If he was neutral, he probably wouldn’t have created eIther world. SInce we are on the topIc of heaven and hell, we must dIscuss Jesus and the Idea of beIng forgIven for our sIns. As most of you know, the bIble says that Jesus dIed for our sIns. But why dId God send hIs only son to dIe for our sIns, when It would have been easIer to just say “Hey, I know that you guys have messed up a lot, but don’t worry I forgIve you.”? The answer Is that God wIshed us to feel that he sacrIfIced somethIng when he forgave us. In realIty, because Jesus just went back to heaven where he orIgInated, the only real effect that It had was dIvIdIng the JewIsh relIgIon, whIch resulted In multIple Holy Wars (I.e. the crusades). Now durIng these Holy Wars, God made no attempt to end the fIghtIng, Instead, he just sat by and watched. ThIs brIngs me to my next poInt. As humans, we consIder dIscrImInatIon as bad, If not evIl. Yet we seem to apply thIs vIew only when It Involves other humans. We would never accuse God of dIscrImInatIon. But maybe we should, because he does It all the tIme. For example, when God created heaven and earth, he gave hIs most prIzed creatIon, mankInd, the abIlIty to choose and he created man In hIs Image, but he dIdn’t gIve the angels anythIng even close to these. ThIs Is a clear example of favorItIsm, whIch Is a form of dIscrImInatIon. Another example of Gods dIscrImInatIon was creatIng mankInd wIth mInds much more advanced than any other anImal on earth. AgaIn thIs Is favorItIsm. Even among hIs favorItes, he dIscrImInates. The most obvIous example of thIs dIscrImInatIon Is heaven and hell. The bIble says that god forgave us of our sIns, but he only forgIves those of us who acknowledge hIs exIstence. In other words, those people who belIeve In hIm go to heaven wIthout a glance at whether they actually deserve to be there, whIle those who don’t go to hell In the same fashIon. An example of thIs Is If someone, we’ll call hIm JIm, kIlled fIve hundred people, and then In jaIl, he was converted and then saId, “I’m sorry god; I know that what I dId was wrong. Please forgIve me.” MeanwhIle, Bob never IntentIonally harms anyone, and lIves hIs lIfe to the hIghest moral code, hIs only flaw Is that he doesn’t go to church, because he doesn’t belIeve In God. Now who should go to heaven? The obvIous choIce Is Bob, but yet Bob doesn’t go to heaven, no It Is JIm who goes, whIle Bob Is sent to Hell for all eternIty. ThIs Is lIke a judge who sends person A to jaIl for stealIng a purse, but not sendIng person B, even though he robbed a bank, just because person B Is hIs frIend. If you can’t see the dIscrImInatIon here, I’m not goIng to waste my tIme tryIng to poInt It out. In conclusIon, I have provIded evIdence of Gods dIscrImInatIon, dIscussed the Issue of choIce, and descrIbed how perfectIon relates to God. based on thIs evIdence, and the assumptIon that God Is perfect, I conclude that God Is evIl. and If I have stIll not convInced you that God Is evIl, then I gIve up. belIeve what you wIsh, your opInIon Isnt really Important anyway. I dont care If you thInk Im a great hero, or Im a mentally unstable lunatIc who needs to be locked up, eIther way, I dIsagree. even If God Is evIl, there Is nothIng any of us can do about It, so It doesnt really matter. besIdes I dont belIeve that God Is evIl anyway, mostly due to the fact that I dont belIeve In God, but thats not the poInt. "In closeIng someone dIed, vote for me." (SImmons, Red Vs Blue).

[SoylentGreen]

LaW besIdes I dont belIeve that God Is evIl anyway, mostly due to the fact that I dont belIeve In God,but thats not the poInt.

I would of thought that the exact point.
Would he care to explain the contradiction in believing that something that doesn't exist can be evil

[Okieslims]

Many of the ideas attributed to "God" are evil... but there is no God.

[LaW]

Would he care to explain the contradiction in believing that something that doesn't exist can be evil

sorry, but that was all he/she wrote.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: LaW sorry, but that was all he/she wrote.

So whats your opinion on this?

[Gods_Mercenary]

I'm an agnostic, so unsure seems a good choice.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I'm an agnostic, so unsure seems a good choice.

fence sitter

[Gods_Mercenary]

Hey, I'm finally comfortable, no posts all up in there or nothin, so leave me alone

[LadiesMan217]

There are many problems with this person's point of view. I can go into detail about each point that I think he is wrong about but it will take some time to write.

[LaW]

So whats your opinion on this?

I thInk that the way he/she presented thIs was very logIcal.

It defInetly makes me thInk.

I am unsure of gods existence, but If gad were to exist.

I'd probably agree that he Is Indeed evIl sInce hIs/her argument and logic Is very persuasIve.

If god were to to exIst, what would your opInIon be, soylentgreen?

[Matt W]

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[Darebirth]

Quote by: SoylentGreen I would of thought that the exact point. Would he care to explain the contradiction in believing that something that doesn't exist can be evil

The guy said in this beginning of his post that he had "come to the conclusion that if God exists, than he must be evil."

he is still unsure of the existence of god, but he is certain that if he does exist, he is evil.

[SoylentGreen]

]LaW ]If god were to to exIst, what would your opInIon be, soylentgreen?

Ok well lets start with this flaw in his argument.

God created man exactly lIke hIm, both physIcally and mentally,

As far as I am aware the words should be that god created man in his image. The word image does not mean that we were created exactly like him.

because God Is perfect.

Is this suppose to be a reason why god created man? I wasn't aware of that reasoning for creating man, where did he get that from.

DarebirthThe guy said in this beginning of his post that he had "come to the conclusion that if God exists, than he must be evil."

True point taken I missed that part. So this is another hypothetical about invisible spaghetti monsters.

[ryanatau]

The article does not show much theological knowledge. Most of the problems he raises have been addressed by various philosophers and theologians. It says at one point basically either God is lazy or evil. He can't be lazy because that would make Him imperfect. Therefore God is evil. However, wouldn't being evil make God imperfect as well? So it must follow that creation is not evil. If we consider that humans have free will and in order for pleasure to exist the negation must also exist we can understand why God would allow pain and how evil can penetrate into the world. Evil as such is does not exist but is simply the privation of Good and exists when humanity exercises their free will incorrectly. God would know that Haman's would exercise their free will incorrectly but would have to allow it if they were to truly be free. The reason God would make humans free is because in order for an action to be Good it would have to be done from a free will. Thus because God wants people to be Good he must allow them to be evil if they so choose.

[linda_mary_13]

In the Lord's prayer, Jesus teaches us to pray " and deliver us from evil". I agree that evil is the privation of Good (GOD) and that reality exists on Earth, therefore evil exists on Earth. I would suggest that not only are our actions potentially evil but storms, natural disasters, famine are also evil.

Evil has force. A small lie, a few untrue words, has a power to change things dramatically by causing physical and emotional pain in our Earthly experience, It remains to be seen whether evil exists beyond our earthly experience but we are asking to be delivered from....evil.

[ryanatau]

Quote by: linda_mary_13 I agree that evil is the privation of Good (GOD) and that reality exists on Earth, therefore evil exists on Earth.

So you are saying God is equivalent to Good? I don't think that's well to say. And what do you mean the Earth is real therefore evil exists on the earth? Is God not real then? Do you mean the earth is material therefore evil exists. If so then you would have to conclude that God did not create the earth or that God is evil.

I would suggest that not only are our actions potentially evil but storms, natural disasters, famine are also evil.

If you admit that there are natural evils in the world then you must conclude that God created these natural evil. If God created evil then God cannot be equivalent to Good (though this does not imply God is evil).

[linda_mary_13]

Evil is the lack of GOD. GOD is goodness, love, mercy etc. and more and that IS real.

Evil and goodness are real things and we know they exist in the world (Earth). GOD didn't create evil. Evil is the lack of GOD. GOD did not create himself therefore GOD did not create the lack of himself.

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: linda_mary_13 Evil is the lack of GOD. GOD is goodness, love, mercy etc. and more and that IS real. Evil and goodness are real things and we know they exist in the world (Earth). GOD didn't create evil. Evil is the lack of GOD. GOD did not create himself therefore GOD did not create the lack of himself.

Actually, "evil" and "good" are tremendously subjective terms and I don't believe they exist "Unto Themselves" in the world.

You said earlier that storms were evil. Didn't god supposedly put the laws of physics into place by creating everything? That's at least indirect creation of evil? Unless storms are somehow physical manifestations of the lack of god, which I am having serious trouble understanding...

[ryanatau]

Quote by: linda_mary_13 Evil is the lack of GOD. GOD is goodness, love, mercy etc. and more and that IS real. Evil and goodness are real things and we know they exist in the world (Earth). GOD didn't create evil. Evil is the lack of GOD. GOD did not create himself therefore GOD did not create the lack of himself.

If evil is the lack of good (the privation of good) then it does not have real existence.

What I think you don't understand is that if you are saying the God is equivalent to Good then you have created a pantheism which I don't think you mean to do. I think you mean to say God is the exemplary good (or Good is part of the divine mind as it understands itself) and all good things imitate this exemplary.

I don't think your position is very well thought out. It does not follow any theologian's ideas that I know of. In fact, it is what most theologians argue against.f

[ryanatau]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 Actually, "evil" and "good" are tremendously subjective terms and I don't believe they exist "Unto Themselves" in the world. You said earlier that storms were evil. Didn't god supposedly put the laws of physics into place by creating everything? That's at least indirect creation of evil? Unless storms are somehow physical manifestations of the lack of god, which I am having serious trouble understanding...

Yeah. I don't think it would make sense to say a storm is a physical manifestation of a lack. How can nothing materially manifest? We would have to avoid saying natural disasters are evil because then even Augustine's comment that God is so good and powerful that He can bring Good from Evil would be useless because He would be the one creating the evil in the first place. I think it would be better to say the pain that storms cause is evil (or bad) but it is necessary if we are to have pleasure (i.e. if we are to be sensible).

However, I am with you that evil and good are human conceptions that would not exist if we were not here to conceive them. But because we are here they do exist, if as nothing else but a conception, which gives it practical existence because we still feel it.