The Nobel Islam and Women

[smartcode]

The main subject against Islam is the women and how they are treated In Muslim countries.
They start by talking about veil, girls circumcision , oppression, political right , blab bla
First of all and before anything we must differentiate between women treatment in Muslim countries and the women rights in Islam.

I tell you truly and honestly that yes some women are treated badly in some societies specially in the uneducated places such as rural area of Egypt (Alsa’eed) and in the middle of Saudi Arabia (Najd) .


I won’t repeat that this not Islam. God said many times in his glory book

“And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable;”228

The prophet also said” the women and men are brothers (equals).”


I found it better to ask you about you about the subject that you want me to discuss in this area.

Bye bye

[Zhavric]

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Can a woman marry many men?

Can a women, under Muslim law, be prosecuted for being raped?

Can a women wear whatever clothing she chooses to?

Can she walk in front of her husband?


Your argument is an example of what's called the "no true Scottsman" fallacy. A single line of your holy book taken out of context doesn't excuse MILLENIA of oppression and abuse. To be sure, women in Muslim countries gain rights and are treated like human beings when Muslim laws are relaxed or ignored outright.

[JaneDoe321]

I would argue that women aren't treated better in non-Islamic countries.

I'm sure those teenage girls who were recently taken from the FLDS compound in TX who have been raped, etc. are treated as first class citizens.

There seems to be a serious lack of female leadership in the Christian tradition, as well (sure, there are exceptions, but that's just it, they're EXCEPTIONS, not the rule).

Etc etc ad nauseum.

[Matt W]

Once again - are you preaching or debating? Answer my question.

[smartcode]

Quote by: Matt W Once again - are you preaching or debating? Answer my question.

Some times the debate is called breaching. In other words If I won the debate then the other party has reached to be satisfied with my ideology.
In Idiologies there are no difference between debating and breaching they are equal.

let us take the usa elections. Candidates are doing debates to breach for themselves. :) Do you agree matt

Am I able to continue or no?

[smartcode]

Your questions are not answered through any religions law.! The answer should be logically and by convention and tradition.

Quote by: Zhavric Can a woman marry many men? .

Yes but one by one . If she is divorced from the first then it turns to the second.
If she mary all of them in the same time then the baby will not know his father .

Quote by: Zhavric Can a women, under Muslim law, be prosecuted for being raped?

If she is being raped then Islam Law will help her to get her right from that damn shit

It happens that some crazy fathers kill his daughter but this is not Islam. The father should be prosecuted by the law.

Quote by: Zhavric Can a women walk in front of her husband?

Sure yes she can .. Islam did not mention this issue ....If she is taller and faster than him she may do. But by convention she should wait him and walk with him!!




QUOTE=Zhavric;507184]

Can a women wear whatever clothing she chooses to?

[/quote]

Aha here you caught me. Of course she cant wear bikini in front of foreigners. She must wear modest clothes. The reason is that religions want to protect the woman from the dirty gazing.
I think you are with me in that the woman body is very attractive, even the non religious society cover big part of her body specially in the offices and the respected places. I think it is a matter of how much the area that should be covered in the woman.
By the way Many muslims dont cover the face of the woman they have their Islamic references also. Islam is not a fanatic religion.

thanks for your important question I hope I gave you the answers

I want your feed back Zhavric

[Jack]

If she is being raped then Islam Law will help her to get her right from that damn shit

These are the stories we see in the West that makes us distrustful of Muslim "law":

"Rape victim ostracised in Bihar," from the Indo-Asian News Service, with thanks to Daisy: MUZAFFARPUR: Forced by a religious leader, a Muslim-dominated village in Bihar has asked a rape victim to leave the place after calling her 'napak' (impure) for giving birth to a child. The husband has also deserted Sabia, a mute woman in her 20s and mother of two, following pressures from the leaders, the woman's distraught father Samsher Ali said. The woman, who was raped last year by a neighbour, Mustafa, now lives with her parents in their thatched hut in the same village, Chandkiwari, in Muzaffarpur district, about 70 km from here. Mustafa is on the run. Sabia's parents are facing the ire of the villagers for giving shelter to their "impure" daughter. "No one talks to us; we have no social life. We are treated like animals for no fault of ours," Samsher Ali lamented. Says Sabia's mother: "I fail to understand why my mute daughter was punished when she did not commit any crime. She was rather a victim of the heinous crime of rape. But these people do not realise it." Maulana Abdul Haleem, a Muslim leader of the village, however said that as per Islamic law Sabia had become impure due to the rape and the "illegitimate" child.

Dhimmi Watch: Muslim rape victim ostracised in India

The Saudi judiciary on Tuesday defended a court verdict that sentenced a 19-year-old victim of a gang rape to six months in jail and 200 lashes because she was with an unrelated male when they were attacked. The Shiite Muslim woman had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicted of violating Saudi Arabia's rigid Islamic law requiring segregation of the sexes. But in considering her appeal of the verdict, the Saudi General Court increased the punishment. It also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the woman, Saudi news media said last week. The reports triggered an international outcry over the Saudis punishing the victim of a terrible crime. But the Ministry of Justice stood by the verdict Tuesday, saying that "charges were proven" against the woman for having been in a car with a man who was not her relative.

Saudis defend punishment for rape victim - USATODAY.com

(BTW-gratuitous profanity is discouraged in the forum rules)

[stardust]

What i particularly love about Islam, is the fact that it as a religion, emphasises on drawing a balance between worldly and religious life.

[stardust]

Quote:
If she is being raped then Islam Law will help her to get her right from that damn shit

These are the stories we see in the West that makes us distrustful of Muslim "law":

Quote:
"Rape victim ostracised in Bihar," from the Indo-Asian News Service, with thanks to Daisy:

MUZAFFARPUR: Forced by a religious leader, a Muslim-dominated village in Bihar has asked a rape victim to leave the place after calling her 'napak' (impure) for giving birth to a child.
The husband has also deserted Sabia, a mute woman in her 20s and mother of two, following pressures from the leaders, the woman's distraught father Samsher Ali said.

The woman, who was raped last year by a neighbour, Mustafa, now lives with her parents in their thatched hut in the same village, Chandkiwari, in Muzaffarpur district, about 70 km from here. Mustafa is on the run.

Sabia's parents are facing the ire of the villagers for giving shelter to their "impure" daughter.

"No one talks to us; we have no social life. We are treated like animals for no fault of ours," Samsher Ali lamented.

Says Sabia's mother: "I fail to understand why my mute daughter was punished when she did not commit any crime. She was rather a victim of the heinous crime of rape. But these people do not realise it."

Maulana Abdul Haleem, a Muslim leader of the village, however said that as per Islamic law Sabia had become impure due to the rape and the "illegitimate" child.

Dhimmi Watch: Muslim rape victim ostracised in India


Quote:
The Saudi judiciary on Tuesday defended a court verdict that sentenced a 19-year-old victim of a gang rape to six months in jail and 200 lashes because she was with an unrelated male when they were attacked.
The Shiite Muslim woman had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicted of violating Saudi Arabia's rigid Islamic law requiring segregation of the sexes.

But in considering her appeal of the verdict, the Saudi General Court increased the punishment. It also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the woman, Saudi news media said last week.

The reports triggered an international outcry over the Saudis punishing the victim of a terrible crime.

But the Ministry of Justice stood by the verdict Tuesday, saying that "charges were proven" against the woman for having been in a car with a man who was not her relative.

Saudis defend punishment for rape victim - USATODAY.com

(BTW-gratuitous profanity is discouraged in the forum rules)[/quote]



Oh well, i'm sure you would get those kind of stories out of every region. I think in few cases religion dosen't impacts a society as much as their traditional laws and norms, or religion is simply evaded in few cases. This may not sound a very viable contention. But its a fact. We hear these kind of stories out of regions, which while considering Islam, as their way of life, still tilt more towards their traditional outputs on social issues. I'm sure you would get more of those stories out of indian hindu regions as well. Because these laws have more to do with social structure of the society than religion. Also, Saudi maybe a staunch Shariah follower, but in most of the matters Islam is probably evaded, or the correct ruling of Islam is not inferred. because i'm sure Islam is against those kind of atrocities. You should, btw, study about the pre-Islamic sturcture of the Arab society, and compare it to todays Arab world, where change is apparent,.. keeping some factors aside as exceptions

[Squeaky Wheels]

Islam is a culture. It's more than just one's narrow interpretation of the Q'ran. If women face a lot of restrictions under Islamic culture then Islam is responsible. Especially given the degree of control that Islam imposes on the daily lives of people living under Islamic culture, and the fact that these restrictions are usually imposed explicitly in the name of Islam.

[another day]

I don't care what is in the quran, I care about what came out it. I care about the culture that it has created, and how it has translated into the real world. An ideal taken from a book's pages is meaningless when faced with the reality of the kinds of societies it has spawned, which are not good.

[Technosoul]

I like the word breachng, that is a new one for me.

I call it "mouse tapping". But you have a good point, if by debate you convert someone then that is a sensible way to preach.


About the dress codes.

"Shut up woman, we enforce this because it is good for you". That is how I picture that idea.

What if she is a ugly woman that would not turn on anyone by showing some flesh and bones? A woman that would cause men to want to cover their eyes? Are they in violation of promoting men to sin?

And why blame the women if the bad thoughts are those of the men and not the woman? Why can't she be like American women and just say "what the hell are you looking at you pervert". She could use her body to breach the truth about how men wrongly view women just as sex objects. It might be good for them to learn how to view women for their brains and not just their body. But they cannot experience that if the body is covered up, now can they?

Anyway, if they can get Mr Right to see them as real attractive then they can use that power to get the man of their dreams. Why censor that advantage women have over men? It's is only a natural part of a mating ritual that should not be obstructed in my opinon, on the other hand if you expose your bananas in the market place for the right buyers you might attract a lot of flies also, so it does have some disadvantages.
If you know what I mean by that anology.

Being that men are more in need of controlling relative to the sex drive, and being that women have more at stake relative to such an encounter, it would be wise to put women in full control of such situations, with the powers of enforcement to their standards. For one thing women can control their sexual habits better then men can and thusly have more experience. And so I think the system you are breaching about is upside down. Women should be the boss with the final say so relative to sexual behavorisms in a culture. No means no and yes means yes. No ifs or wiggley butts about it. I am sure God would agree with me on that. He seems like He would share such wisdom with you fellows because men are supposed to be only useful means for a woman to create a family.

She would use you to make the family, she would raise the children, and you would be like the worker bee who goes out and gets whatever she needs to do that in order that she can do her inalianable duties. Her help mate, not the other way around.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: another day I don't care what is in the quran, I care about what came out it. I care about the culture that it has created, and how it has translated into the real world. An ideal taken from a book's pages is meaningless when faced with the reality of the kinds of societies it has spawned, which are not good.

The Quran is not to blame. Modern Iran and Taliban era Afghanistan were roughly analogous to Christian or Jewish society a few hundred years ago. Given a choice between medieval English justice and Iranian justice I'd pick Iran.

What happened in Europe was the Enlightenment. The Middle East never had an enlightenment because they never had a dark age to rebel against. Medieval Middle Easterners were really about the same level as some of their modern descendants.

Meanwhile, in Dubai they're going through centuries of enlightenment at once and have moved straight into a postmodern Las Vegas-esque style. Go figure.

[gallo]

Here's a story. There will be a test.

A young man wearing an overcoat boards a bus at the terminal. Under his overcoat he wears a bomb strapped to his chest. His pockets are filled with nails, ball bearings and rat poison.

He takes a seat beside a couple with a baby. Several more people board the bus at the following stops until the bus if full and people are standing in the aisle. He stands up and presses the button in his pocket and detonates the bomb that destroys himself, the couple and the baby next to him, and several others nearby. Many others, even outside of the bus, are victims of the nails, ball bearings, and rat poison.

The young man's parents, although saddened because they have lost a son, are proud of his accomplishment. They know that he has gone to heaven and prepared a way for them. Neighbors celebrate the event and offer the parents food and money as a token of esteem.

Please answer these questions.

Was he popular in school?

Was he rich or poor?

Was he smart or stupid?

Did he have a college education?

What was his religion?

So, smartcode. You have no idea, right?

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: smartcode The main subject against Islam is the women and how they are treated In Muslim countries. They start by talking about veil, girls circumcision , oppression, political right , blab bla First of all and before anything we must differentiate between women treatment in Muslim countries and the women rights in Islam. I tell you truly and honestly that yes some women are treated badly in some societies specially in the uneducated places such as rural area of Egypt (Alsa’eed) and in the middle of Saudi Arabia (Najd) . I won’t repeat that this not Islam. God said many times in his glory book “And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable;”228 The prophet also said” the women and men are brothers (equals).” I found it better to ask you about you about the subject that you want me to discuss in this area. Bye bye

All who practice the words of this prophet are very sadly misguided humans who have easily given up their human responsibilities to other humans and the ways of love

[smartcode]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel All who practice the words of this prophet are very sadly misguided humans who have easily given up their human responsibilities to other humans and the ways of love

Would pls clarify your statement.
By the way one billion Muslims and hundreds of thousands of newly muslims cant be misguided. May be you who is misguided to standing about the stratight path of God

Again If you have in mind any bad understanding just say it to be discussed. I will appreciate it.

[Jack]

By the way one billion Muslims and hundreds of thousands of newly muslims cant be misguided.

Really? Popularity of belief infers credibility? So at a time when the majority of humanity thought the world was flat it was?

[Chaossaber314]

If credibility by popularity is fact then I'm sorry to break it to you Smartcode but that makes Christianity the one true faith and not Islam.

[techliveadmin]

Islam is a WAY of LIFE.

So of course it advises you as how to go about your day. You do have freewill, but it's better to obey and follow rather that rebel. It doesn't control every aspect of our lives. It just gives us a better way of living it.

A woman is Islam has more rights than a man. Of course you WILL get crazy stories as above, because some people practice Islam wrongly. They interpret it in their own way. Rather than what is normally done, which is innovation and Muslims who innovate, will be punished.

Women cannot marry more than one husband at a time. It makes no sense. So why can a man marry more than once?

To be honest, it's because Islam advises us to marry the widows and the orphans. So as to provide support and LOVE. SEX is not something Islam propagates, however there are rules to it.

Having more than one wife is not for sexual pleasure, NO.

If you must have more than one wife, you have to provide equally for all.
Example : Buy a house for wife A, you MUST buy a house for wife B of equal value.

All the money the husband earns goes to his wife/s. She then decides how much she needs to keep the household running, takes how much she wants for herself and then gives her husband enough to survive on.

Women cannot be beaten is Islam. What you see and hear today are fanatics who claim you can. YOU CANNOT.

Muslims who do this will surely see the fire as their homes.

Women can dress however they want, at home, in front of other muslim women and with their husbands and families.

SO why not dress how they want in public? - Dress modestly, to save themselves from wandering eyes, from sexual enticement, to not draw the attention of other males.

Why would you want anyone beside your husband to see your body? Are you a prostitute?

Salaams to all. Any ques, pm me

[techliveadmin]

Are you kidding me? The Prophet preached the word and did good. People who claim to be Muslims and don't practise what he says, make us look bad. Don't let a small bunch of crazies, interfere with what Islam really is.