The Nobel Islam and Women

[Jack]

People who claim to be Muslims and don't practise what he says, make us look bad. Don't let a small bunch of crazies, interfere with what Islam really is.

That's known as the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Every religion owns its extreme elements. To disown them is to question the roots of your beliefs.

[techliveadmin]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel All who practice the words of this prophet are very sadly misguided humans who have easily given up their human responsibilities to other humans and the ways of love

Quote by: Jack That's known as the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Every religion owns its extreme elements. To disown them is to question the roots of your beliefs.

I don't question my beliefs!

Islam tells us to ignore those who innovate or try to innovate the religion. I rather follow Islam, than a mad man who interprets it for himself and his won ideologies. Thats called belief and not ignorance as you are perceiving me to to have.

[Jack]

Islam tells us to ignore those who innovate or try to innovate the religion.

Of course it does. In a similar fashion Christianity has its own built-in escape clauses to allow its believers to ignore questions that might make them doubt the validity of their beliefs.

That's nothing more than self-preservation for belief. You cannot be allowed to think for yourself or ask awkward questions. Theists are taught to equate questioning their beliefs with disavowing their faith.

Theism of any stripe is a pernicious threat to thought and enlightenment. It subjugates its followers by making doubt a sin and ignorance an asset. It lives in fear of being exposed to logic and common sense. It attempts to hide from exposure. It creates mysteries to camouflage its shallowness.

[techliveadmin]

Islam tells us to question our beliefs.
When I mean innovate the religion, I mean that when people want to change the religion to conform to how modern society is. I don't want to conform to modern society. Islam as survived and withstood the corruption which pagans and theists have done to Christianity.

I believe in a God and I reassure my faith by questioning it. Everything in this universe is TOO complicated to just exist. Some external power or force has had to put these all together.

The Holy Quran says that men will think they have the power to create, but yet the use God's creation and call it their own.

How does that work?

Cloning! - Scientists take dna from one person, put it in another embryo and call it a creation of their own, they can give life!

They didn't create anything! They are using what God already put their!!!

[Matt]

Quote by: techliveadmin Everything in this universe is TOO complicated to just exist. Some external power or force has had to put these all together.

I agree with you there.

Anyhow, say if you miss prayer for 6 months intentionally, what happens?

So can a women marry 4 men? smartcode ignores me when I ask him, so I thought I'd ask you.

[Jack]

Quote by: techliveadmin Islam tells us to question our beliefs.

Yet believers don't. I doubt Islam really teaches that at all. True, unbiased skepticism is anathema to religion.

When I mean innovate the religion, I mean that when people want to change the religion to conform to how modern society is. I don't want to conform to modern society. Islam as survived and withstood the corruption which pagans and theists have done to Christianity.

You earlier implied that our examples of Islam's attitudes toward women, for example, were the results of the message of Islam being corrupted. It either is or isn't. I find it revealing that you don't want to "conform to modern society". That's a shame. The world is advancing every day. The future could be free of religious intolerance and wars, free of theocracies that subjugate their citizens instead of allowing them to live as they wish, free of superstitions and religiously inspired hatred and divisiveness...if it weren't for those who idealize the lives of ancient goat herders and pretend that their morals and attitudes have any place in the 21st century.

I believe in a God and I reassure my faith by questioning it. Everything in this universe is TOO complicated to just exist. Some external power or force has had to put these all together.

Why does it have to? It only appears that way because religion has impressed on its followers that it must be. That's not true in reality.

The Holy Quran says that men will think they have the power to create, but yet the use God's creation and call it their own. How does that work? Cloning! - Scientists take dna from one person, put it in another embryo and call it a creation of their own, they can give life! They didn't create anything! They are using what God already put their!!!

Excessive punctuation isn't impressive. Neither are claims that can only be accepted by those who are already biased against any other explanation, the kind someone might arrive at were they truly able to think for themselves.

[techliveadmin]

Ok, to answer your question, no, women cannot marry 4 husbands. Why? It's because Allah (swt) allowa men to marry more than one women, so that widows and orphans can find love. comfort, a home :).

A man can marry 4 women or lets just say more than 1. It is not recommended to marry more than one woman in Islam. But it is allowed.

Men can work and earn money, as laborers, in business and such.

Women are more feable and dont have the make up of a man to do strenuous work and such. So she cannot provide for 4 husbands.

Men are strong and can provide for 4 wives.

Nothing happens if i miss 6 months of prayers. I just get sinned for every prayer I miss.

Muslims are advised to submit to God, because he rewards us and gives us benefits. Who wouldn't want to give something back to the one who has given them everything?

Scientists and doctors agree that when Muslims prayer, the different stances we make, have great physical benefits which cannot be found in any exercise.

So it is recommended to pray.

[Jack]

Scientists and doctors agree that when Muslims prayer, the different stances we make, have great physical benefits which cannot be found in any exercise.

Let's see some documentation of that. Otherwise I'm more likely to accept the results of studies that show no effects from prayer. Is prayer effective? New study says no

[techliveadmin]

I have atheist friends and I speak with them. Maybe if you go to a mosque you could speak to someone more on the topic at hand?

Islam DOES encourage questioning.
Islam is modern in its own way.
Islam does not have to conform to society as the only society that people see out there is an irreligious one.

So are you telling me the universe is not complicated? So then explain it to me.

[techliveadmin]

Quote by: Jack Excessive punctuation isn't impressive. Neither are claims that can only be accepted by those who are already biased against any other explanation, the kind someone might arrive at were they truly able to think for themselves.

Quote by: Jack Let's see some documentation of that. Otherwise I'm more likely to accept the results of studies that show no effects from prayer. Is prayer effective? New study says no

Am i seeing that you are biased against any other explanation?

Google - Benefits of Muslim Prayer

Compare, think and then speak to me about it.

[techliveadmin]

The link you provided just said there were no benefits to prayer. Which proves nothing. Find something that says Muslim Prayers dont have any effects on us. Then speak to me.

That link is simply a fallacy and your belief in that link proves nothing whatsoever.

[Jack]

Am i seeing that you are biased against any other explanation?

No, you're seeing someone who accepts the results of studies conducted with at least an attempt to be impartial.

Instead of asking me to Google for results, why can't you provide the evidence that supports your contention, "Scientists and doctors agree that when Muslims prayer, the different stances we make, have great physical benefits which cannot be found in any exercise"?

So are you telling me the universe is not complicated? So then explain it to me.

Not at all. I am saying that the simplistic and unsupported explanations that religions offer are worthless. There's no reason at all to accept them as authoritative.

The link you provided just said there were no benefits to prayer.

I didn't actually expect you to read the studies from which that conclusion was drawn. I only offered it to set an example of providing support for an opinion.

That link is simply a fallacy

So you can counter its conclusions? Please do.

[techliveadmin]

You didnt expect me to read the study? That makes no sense.

here is proof Here
Here
Here

and
Here

[Matt]

Quote by: techliveadmin Ok, to answer your question, no, women cannot marry 4 husbands. Why? It's because Allah (swt) allowa men to marry more than one women, so that widows and orphans can find love. comfort, a home :). A man can marry 4 women or lets just say more than 1. It is not recommended to marry more than one woman in Islam. But it is allowed. Men can work and earn money, as laborers, in business and such. Women are more feable and dont have the make up of a man to do strenuous work and such. So she cannot provide for 4 husbands. Men are strong and can provide for 4 wives. Nothing happens if i miss 6 months of prayers. I just get sinned for every prayer I miss. Muslims are advised to submit to God, because he rewards us and gives us benefits. Who wouldn't want to give something back to the one who has given them everything? Scientists and doctors agree that when Muslims prayer, the different stances we make, have great physical benefits which cannot be found in any exercise. So it is recommended to pray.

Don't you think the opposite of that could work also? Where orphans and men who's wife died can find comfort?

Women can too, they can do just as good at non-extensive labouring jobs, like in a business career or at being a doctor (most of the jobs available are not labour jobs).

Not being a fantastic labourer does not mean she couldn't provide. She could provide in other ways, such as beign a doctor.

Maybe stronger physically, but not as smart as women in alot of cases.

Look at how those fake meds sometimes doctors give out can cure a patient (they have no medical ingredients), since their illness is all in their head. The same may go for Muslim prayer, since it is just like a fake pill, after people do it (prayer), they mentally feel better even if it has done nothing.

[techliveadmin]

Quote by: Matt Don't you think the opposite of that could work also? Where orphans and men who's wife died can find comfort? Women can too, they can do just as good at non-extensive labouring jobs, like in a business career or at being a doctor (most of the jobs available are not labour jobs). Not being a fantastic labourer does not mean she couldn't provide. She could provide in other ways, such as beign a doctor. Maybe stronger physically, but not as smart as women in alot of cases. Look at how those fake meds sometimes doctors give out can cure a patient (they have no medical ingredients), since their illness is all in their head. The same may go for Muslim prayer, since it is just like a fake pill, after people do it (prayer), they mentally feel better even if it has done nothing.

You can't really judge or say these things unless you have prayed a Muslim's prayer before.

[Jack]

You didnt expect me to read the study? That makes no sense.

Sure it does. If you'd have actually read the study and attempted to debunk it point by point I would have been amazed, impressed and surprised. Just like the debates over evolution, theists are loath to actually read what's offered in opposition to their religious opinion. That would be too much like granting validity to concepts they don't accept.

Your links, except the last one, all have one thing in common; they make a lot of claims without offering anything to support them. Granted, theists are accustomed to believing what they're told without asking for evidence, but the rest of us prefer to see some substance to claims like these. I could say that sneezing cures cancer. That doesn't make it true. Yet some gullible person will take me at my word and start spreading the word that sneezing cures cancer. That's how fallacious ideas get spread. When someone asks for substantiation, the whole concept falls apart.

[Jack]

You can't really judge or say these things unless you have prayed a Muslim's prayer before.

Saying in effect you can't believe it until you believe it isn't a way to debate or defend an opinion, it's an evasion.

[techliveadmin]

I see this going nowhere.

[Matt]

Quote by: techliveadmin You can't really judge or say these things unless you have prayed a Muslim's prayer before.

And how is it so different from other prayers?

Also, it would be great if you could respond to the other part of my post.

[techliveadmin]

Muslims dont just kneel down and clasp hands begging for a miracle.

We have different stances and a method to pray. Times to pray and when prayer is forbidden.

A man can marry a woman. Sure not a problem, but why share a wife when you can have one for yourself? Note, Muslims believe half of faith is complete when you have a successful prosperous marriage.