Einstein: god is a "childish superstition"

[Zhavric]

Albert Einstein described belief in God as "childish superstition" and said Jews were not the chosen people, in a letter to be sold in London this week, an auctioneer said Tuesday.

The father of relativity, whose previously known views on religion have been more ambivalent and fuelled much discussion, made the comments in response to a philosopher in 1954.

As a Jew himself, Einstein said he had a great affinity with Jewish people but said they "have no different quality for me than all other people".

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

"No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this," he wrote in the letter written on January 3, 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, cited by The Guardian newspaper.

The German-language letter is being sold Thursday by Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, said the auction house's managing director Rupert Powell.

In it, the renowned scientist, who declined an invitation to become Israel's second president, rejected the idea that the Jews are God's chosen people.

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions," he said.

"And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people."

And he added: "As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

Previously the great scientist's comments on religion -- such as "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" -- have been the subject of much debate, used notably to back up arguments in favour of faith.

Powell said the letter being sold this week gave a clear reflection of Einstein's real thoughts on the subject. "He's fairly unequivocal as to what he's saying. There's no beating about the bush," he told AFP. Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter

So, there you have it. One of the greatest minds of the 20th century calling it like it is. This lays to rest once and for all Einstein's views of theism. Clearly, he was an atheist in the sense that he recognized no Judea-Christian god and thought of such belief as a childish superstition.

[Dagda]

"childish superstition"

I prefer gnostic theology which called the Hebrew God the Ildaboath-'childish God. He was real, just an arrogant entity with no conception of spirtuality and desprete to hang on to His stranglehold on humanity.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Zhavric So, there you have it. One of the greatest minds of the 20th century calling it like it is. This lays to rest once and for all Einstein's views of theism. Clearly, he was an atheist in the sense that he recognized no Judea-Christian god and thought of such belief as a childish superstition.

Speaking of "childish", is there anything to debate anything here, or are you just trolling?

What's your point?

[grandpa]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Speaking of "childish", is there anything to debate anything here, or are you just trolling? What's your point?

His point is pretty self-explanatory.

Grandpa h.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Spam deleted What's your point?

You need to stop skimming or *gasp* admit I'm right.

This lays to rest once and for all Einstein's views of theism. Clearly, he was an atheist in the sense that he recognized no Judea-Christian god and thought of such belief as a childish superstition.

[Matt W]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Speaking of "childish", is there anything to debate anything here, or are you just trolling? What's your point?

If you're not interested, tivodan, don't post.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Zhavric You need to stop skimming or *gasp* admit I'm right.

Perhaps my question was clumsy.

What are we to debate here? Assuming the statements quoted are correctly attributed to Einstein, what is the debate? I would like to debate, hence my presence on this site, I just don't understand what the debate is here.

[Morality Games]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Perhaps my question was clumsy. What are we to debate here? Assuming the statements quoted are correctly attributed to Einstein, what is the debate? I would like to debate, hence my presence on this site, I just don't understand what the debate is here.

The religious on this site and elsewhere have argued Einstein's religiousness as a proof that science and religion are compatible (if the 20th century's greatest scientist says so, then it has to be true!). Zharvic is laying the myth that Einstein was religious to rest, but giving those who have quoted Einstein in the past to support their arguments a chance to say otherwise.

[ItsDarts]

Tivo is right in a sense, there is nothing to debate here. What this does is essentially refutes any claims theists have made in the past with respect to Einsteins religiosity and use of the logical falacy of arguments from authority to support their faith in the existence of god(s), i.e. If a smart guy like Einstein believes, it must be true. The link should be saved to all atheists link list of refutations for future reference.

The only possible debate here would be the authenticity of the claims made in said document. Is the document a forgery? Since the above article claims that " he wrote in the letter written on January 3, 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, cited by The Guardian newspaper...", all that is needed is peer review of the letter and his handwriting to verify that it was written during his lifetime and that its actually his handwritting and not a forgery. Shouldn't be too hard to verify, thus, Theists can no longer make claim to Einstein in any debate, unless of course some other letter appears that may have been written at a later date proclaiming a conversion to theism.

[grandpa]

Quote by: ItsDarts Tivo is right in a sense, there is nothing to debate here. What this does is essentially refutes any claims theists have made in the past with respect to Einsteins religiosity and use of the logical falacy of arguments from authority to support their faith in the existence of god(s), i.e. If a smart guy like Einstein believes, it must be true.

Well, we can debate Einstein's points. But the theistic bubble over Einstein has now been
broken officially, at least in this thread.

Let me just add something: People don't have to start threads like this, but they should occasionally. It's important to set the record straight on certain things, and certain people have been warping other people's beliefs since time immemorial.

Another overlooked view of Einstein's:
"The flag is a symbol of the fact that man [sic] is still a herd animal."

Grandpa h.

[Morality Games]

Quote by: grandpa Well, we can debate Einstein's points. But the theistic bubble over Einstein has now been broken officially, at least in this thread. Let me just add something: People don't have to start threads like this, but they should occasionally. It's important to set the record straight on certain things, and certain people have been warping other people's beliefs since time immemorial. Another overlooked view of Einstein's: "The flag is a symbol of the fact that man [sic] is still a herd animal." Grandpa h.

Einstein was more into a single world government than anarchy to resolve that problem, however.

[GHook93]

We both are Jewish and support and sympathize with the Jews, but we both think all religions are an ancient and illogical way of thinking. We believe questioning god's existence is more rational then proclaiming unequivocally of god's existence.

[GHook93]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Speaking of "childish", is there anything to debate anything here, or are you just trolling? What's your point?

Yep the debate is whether he is right. Are all religions or the belief in a supreme being "childish." I would answer yes, but also add ancient and illogical!

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Morality Games The religious on this site and elsewhere have argued Einstein's religiousness as a proof that science and religion are compatible (if the 20th century's greatest scientist says so, then it has to be true!). Zharvic is laying the myth that Einstein was religious to rest, but giving those who have quoted Einstein in the past to support their arguments a chance to say otherwise.

I think as most men, he probably went back and fourth between wether he believed in religion or not. I have done the exact thing, and have looked at his very thoughts on the matter... I think mine end up different, but honestly what 2 people agree 100% on everything.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: Kakumei I think as most men, he probably went back and fourth between wether he believed in religion or not. I have done the exact thing, and have looked at his very thoughts on the matter... I think mine end up different, but honestly what 2 people agree 100% on everything.

We all start out atheists, we have no inherant knowledge of any gods when we're born. Since E was considered Jewish, it leads to the logical conclusion that he was brought up believing, since Judaeism is a religion, not a race. It's fair to say most of us were brought up to believe in one gor or another, but without scriptures, we have nothing to point to that says any of the scritural gods exist. I've never gone back and forth between belief and non-belief, I've only been indoctrinated from non-belief to belief and then gradually went back to my original atheism through a series of steps throughout my life. Gods are NOTHING without their scripture.

[Technosoul]

Ye must become as childish children - Jesus.
Partake of innocent beliefs that are not poluted by adult doubts.

[wyoguy]

I think if the situation is looked at honestly, if the document pans out to be legit, that it is neither a feather in the cap for the atheists nor a slam against the theists, but rather a glimpse at the flakiness of Einstein himself on matters of a metaphysical nature.

[Fangrim]

Quote by: Technosoul Ye must become as childish children - Jesus. Partake of innocent beliefs that are not poluted by adult doubts.

That's actually exactly what I was going to say.

A basic tenet of many religions, particularly Christianity, is the idealization of childhood and blind faith.

That Einstein calls Judeo-Christianity "childish superstition" is unremarkable. For the most part, Christians already accept and promote the understanding that they act as children believing the teachings of their father.

[Jack]

"Childish", yes. But they tend to bristle at "superstition".

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Jack "Childish", yes. But they tend to bristle at "superstition".

A judgement of superstition is an opinion only. It would suggest any belief not based on knowledge. Knowledge can be based on first hand experience and personal observations as well as just something learned out of a science book. A fosil is not a living creature.

Now if someone told a story about creation in the bible days they would employ use of the knowledge used in those days. One dominate knowledge known by everyone was to create things out of pottery (clay), and so a story about Adam might use that knowledge to explain a concept to other people. In those days people constructed houses from the ground up, so a storyteller might use that known knowledge to explain that God created the earth (foundation) first and the sky (roof) last. The use of knowledge known back then would seem very logical, even if nowadays it would seem like superstition. In those days Jewish people completed their weeks work in 6 days and so it would be logical to them that God would do the same thing. Using knowledge that the common folk can relate too in storytelling.

Our modern concepts about evolution and the Big Bang that employs the use of the status of knowledge known to us might seem like a primitive supersition two thousand years form now.

So we think that other beliefs are supersitions because they are not in conformity with the knowledge we want to use to explain things. Which bowls down to name-calling in the name of being biased or selective.

This post was not edited for schools.

Yesterday's science fiction might be todays reality, and todays theory might be towmorrow's superstition. Opinions based on circumstances.