Hi all I would discuss with you about I.....M

[shrike]

I think you'd find in the economically developed and democratic regions of the Islamic world(Albania, Most of non-Kurdish Turkey, Malysia, most of Iran(well, its partially democractic) aren't very violent at all. Hell, even Indonesia is pretty peaceful, considering the ethnic diversity, population size and poverty of the state- being a liberal-ish democracy probably has something to do with it.

I am really not sure what causes what. It is non democratic nature of this Muslim state that cause the religious violence and fanaticism or its religious fanaticism that cause that we don't see many liberal democratic Islam countries. IMO its synergy of this two reasons because you don't see much Buddhist terrorists in not democratic countries.

[RealRockingham]

Quote by: shrike I am really not sure what causes what. It is non democratic nature of this Muslim state that cause the religious violence and fanaticism or its religious fanaticism that cause that we don't see many liberal democratic Islam countries. IMO its synergy of this two reasons because you don't see much Buddhist terrorists in not democratic countries.

The Buddhist faith is not in conflict with other civilisations, primarily because its so out of the way. Whereas the massive growth of the Islamic population, combined with oil, puts certain Islamic regions in natural conflict AT THE MOMENT with the non-Islamic world, and indeed other Muslims. Its a matter of demography.

It's also important to note that at the two points were it is in conflict with other civilisations- Sri Lanka and Tibet- they engage in terrorism.

Its also important to note that their are plenty of examples of non radical Muslim states, and in fact the vast majority of the worlds Muslims want democracy- just democracy with Islamic law a part of it. However, as is the case in most situations, the small but violent minority of radicals dominates the society, or else the fundamentalist state denies the citizens what they want. Albania, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Mali, Bosnia and probably Kosovo are all excpetions.

Really, it is the Arab world that fits your view of Islam, but most of the rest of the Islamic world is different.

[Zhavric]

Mohammed Image Archive

Do you feel it's justified to murder the person who runs this website? You should. It's mandated by your god.

If I converted to Islam and then decided to become an atheist, would you feel the need to murder me? You should. It's mandated by your god. In fact, it's a law in every Muslim nation including the more progressive ones like Malyasa(sp?).

The problem with Islam (amongst others) is that it can be anything anyone wants it to be. You can look at the peaceful passages and conclude it's a religion of peace or you can look at the passages Mohammed wrote later on and conclude it's a religion of death & violence. It's both. Worse, it's a religion that gave up on learning. It gave up on math and science (which it borrowed from the Greeks) and defined learning as memorizing the kuran... which may be the worst thing to happen to middle eastern civilization.

[loser]

BorisTheFerret said:

My opinion on Islam is the same as my opinion on Judaism and Christianity: a load of archaic nonsense peddled by fundamentalist bigots and control-freaks intent on robbing the rest of us of the right to live in peace.

What right to live in peace? You have no right to live in peace! In fact, you probably don't deserve to live in peace. You have a right to live in a world full of violence, though. Look around. See the earth tremble and the mountains spew their anger. Watch the oceans pound and the winds roar. Fires and floods and lightning strikes rarely offer peace but if you're looking for violence, they are happy to oblige.

Then, there is man...

You want peace? Work for it! After all, peace starts with you. As long as you have an intolerant attitude towards others who have beliefs and desires different than your own, which is revealed by your denigrating words such as "fundamentalist bigots and control-freaks" and "load of archaic nonsense", peace will only be a sentiment and never will it be a reality.

Right to peace? What a joke!

No, the truth is you have an obligation to make this world a better place where the seeds of peace can be sown and nurtured...and it starts with you (not you, specifically, but each of us, collectively).

[blue saki]

Quote by: Aussie You could say the same of Christianity and it's extremists though. You dont see united religious fronts cause there arent any! There's too many demoninations and groups to form one collective group.

Agreed. However the ways in which the world perceives Islam these days, one would tend to assume there would be more denouncing of the radicals regardless of the denomination.

[Rainbow]

Where is smartcode ?
I would like to read an answer to my post.

[smartcode]

Quote by: Zhavric Do you feel it's justified to murder the person who runs this website? You should. It's mandated by your god. If I converted to Islam and then decided to become an atheist, would you feel the need to murder me? You should. It's mandated by your god. In fact, it's a law in every Muslim nation including the more progressive ones like Malyasa(sp?). The problem with Islam (amongst others) is that it can be anything anyone wants it to be. You can look at the peaceful passages and conclude it's a religion of peace or you can look at the passages Mohammed wrote later on and conclude it's a religion of death & violence. It's both. Worse, it's a religion that gave up on learning. It gave up on math and science (which it borrowed from the Greeks) and defined learning as memorizing the kuran... which may be the worst thing to happen to middle eastern civilization.

You are very biased against Islam

May be you did not know that Islam is the religion of tolerance ,peace ,love,and justice . Quraan is calling us to treat our enemies in justic.
In our Muslim world We will be very angry if you claim bad thing about our example prophet Muhammed because this is not justice. He was very great man very merciful man very brave helping poors,and very peaceful.
A man came to him and said bad words about him ,then muhammed disciples tried to kill him but the prophet refused.

[Matt W]

I have a question.

Are you here to debate, or preach?

Given that this is a debate site, I suggest you avoid preaching.

[Jack]

In our Muslim world We will be very angry if you claim bad thing about our example prophet Muhammed

So I take it humility and turning the other cheek aren't a part of Islamic belief?
My problem with this attitude is that it's not being kept within your "Muslim world". Muslims want everyone, everywhere, to show respect to their prophet or suffer legal retaliation or worse. I'm not a Muslim, I don't live in a Muslim nation, and I could care less if I offend a bunch of people who, like so many others, are trying to avoid entering the 21st century by clinging disparately to outdated attitudes appropriate to desert dwellers thousands of years ago. Blasphemy is not a sin in my book.

[Matt]

He is ignoring me too Rainbow.

[Rainbow]

@Matt
It looks I am not alone, in this subject :-)

[Rainbow]

@smartcode

Answer the following question, please :
- why women (in Islam-driven states) have no equal rights with men ?
(Do not tell me that Allah commended to treat women that way, please.)

[SoylentGreen]

And still to I wait a reply. It would seem that smartcode has an agenda for preaching rather than debating.

[Kuldeep]

To my mind, anything mentioned in any religion, can never be the direct directive of God. It has to be man made using own logic with imagination that God would like it that way. Since, some or the other group of people have always been responsible for starting a new religion.

Let me ask both Muslims and Christians as to what God was doing before the birth of Christ or Mohammad ?? HE was not at all worried about the people living before those times. What were HIS directives for the common man then ???

[RealRockingham]

Quote by: Rainbow @smartcode Answer the following question, please : - why women (in Islam-driven states) have no equal rights with men ? (Do not tell me that Allah commended to treat women that way, please.)

They do, actually, in some- Turkey and Albania are the first that come to mind.

[shrike]

They do, actually, in some- Turkey and Albania are the first that come to mind.

Turkey and Albania are secular republics.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: smartcode You are very biased against Islam May be you did not know that Islam is the religion of tolerance ,peace ,love,and justice . Quraan is calling us to treat our enemies in justic. In our Muslim world We will be very angry if you claim bad thing about our example prophet Muhammed because this is not justice. He was very great man very merciful man very brave helping poors,and very peaceful. A man came to him and said bad words about him ,then muhammed disciples tried to kill him but the prophet refused.

In debate, what you've posted above is called an evasion. You see, I asked you specifically if it's true that Islam mandates the death of Muslims who become Atheists. I also asked you if it's mandated by Islam to murder people who create images of your prophet.

We both know the answer to both of these questions is a resounding yes... which is morally, ethically, and intellectually barbaric. Such practices have no place in a peaceful civilized world.

So, if I sound biased against muslims it's for two reasons:

1) Being an atheist, if a muslim thought I had ever been a Muslim before I became an atheist, I could be MURDERED by them.

and

2) I've yet to encounter a Muslim online who can adequately debate. Christians... atheists... agnostics... new agers... all of them can delve into the specifics of their faith (or lack there of) with equal detachment. Without preaching. I've yet to meet a Muslim who can do this. Now, what are you going to do? If you try to prove me wrong on this point and show that you can debate, you'll have to admit that Muslims are in the habit of murdering former muslim atheists. If you don't address this point, then you're proving me right when I say that Muslims can't debate.

Do you see what I did there?

[smartcode]

Quote by: Matt He is ignoring me too Rainbow.

Matt I answered you in post 22
I add also that it is not halwacination. The Qoraan is very wise book totally different from what you suggest.

[smartcode]

Quote by: Zhavric In debate, what you've posted above is called an evasion. You see, I asked you specifically if it's true that Islam mandates the death of Muslims who become Atheists. I also asked you if it's mandated by Islam to murder people who create images of your prophet. We both know the answer to both of these questions is a resounding yes... which is morally, ethically, and intellectually barbaric. Such practices have no place in a peaceful civilized world. So, if I sound biased against muslims it's for two reasons: 1) Being an atheist, if a muslim thought I had ever been a Muslim before I became an atheist, I could be MURDERED by them. and 2) I've yet to encounter a Muslim online who can adequately debate. Christians... atheists... agnostics... new agers... all of them can delve into the specifics of their faith (or lack there of) with equal detachment. Without preaching. I've yet to meet a Muslim who can do this. Now, what are you going to do? If you try to prove me wrong on this point and show that you can debate, you'll have to admit that Muslims are in the habit of murdering former muslim atheists. If you don't address this point, then you're proving me right when I say that Muslims can't debate. Do you see what I did there?

1-Although this rule is true but since 1400 years ago no single person converted from Islam to another religion. Milions of Muslims living in America and Europe can convert if they like but non of them did so. As a result we can deduce to that This rule is put to stop playing with the religion.

In the same time Islam does not force YOU to become muslim. If you want to become Muslim you should read and understand Islam.
By the way you can convert and reconvert hundred times nobody will murder you.

[smartcode]

Quote by: Kuldeep Let me ask both Muslims and Christians as to what God was doing before the birth of Christ or Mohammad ?? HE was not at all worried about the people living before those times. What were HIS directives for the common man then ???

God never forgot his people on earth. If we start with Adam, he met god in the heaven. After that God sent many messengers every couple of years he sends messengers. We know Nooh (Noa), Saleh, Hood, Shuaib,Loot,Ibraham, Isaac Jacob, Johan, Ismail, Moses Jesus, Muhammed,
Muhammed is the final messenger sent by God