Does suicide exist?

[Darebirth]

I have been talking with a friend who is taking a philosophy course and he has been giving me ideas that have challenged my mind. I eventually proposed this question to him and it blew his mind. I want to know what you guys think of this.

Does suicide exist?

First and foremost, we most define Suicide. Suicide is the making of a choice in which death is a possible result.

Ex. You make the choice of jumping off the empire state building. You definitly know that death could be a possible result. Therefore, if you die, it is a suicide.

So now that we have defined suicide, we can take it a step further. When you cross the street, you look both ways because you know it is a possibility that you could be hit by a car. Therefore, if you make the choice to cross the street, and you being hit by a car is a possibility, and you get hit by a car, that is a suicide.

Let us take another step forward. If you wake up in the morning and decide to live that day, and you die (by any means in which a person can die) that is a suicide. You make the choice to live that day knowing that you could possibly die. That's a suicide.

From all of the above information, we can conclude that every death in history has been a suicide, or the result of a choice in which a possibility is death.

However, I have concluded that suicide does not exist and I'll tell you why.

What is the alternative to choosing to live for another day. That would be killing yourself, which is still by definition a suicide. This means that no matter how you die, it is going to be a suicide, which means that suicide is not a CHOICE. If the type of death is not a choice, than it cannot be a suicide.

Therefore, suicide does not exist.

P.S. I know this logic is inherently flawed. I have come upon one single instance in which this logic does not apply. I would like to see if anyone here can find that instance or come up with another one.

[Walrus]

Quote by: Darebirth Let us take another step forward. If you wake up in the morning and decide to live that day, and you die (by any means in which a person can die) that is a suicide. You make the choice to live that day knowing that you could possibly die. That's a suicid.

Then what do you call it if you decide not to live?

[Captain Cardio]

First and foremost, we most define Suicide. Suicide is the making of a choice in which death is a possible result.

I think Suicide is more commonly defined as making a choice where death is the intended result.


But regardless, was dieing of old age the instance you were refering to?

[The Bacon Guy]

suicide - definition of suicide by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

su·i·cide (s-sd) n. 1. The act or an instance of intentionally killing oneself. 2. The destruction or ruin of one's own interests: It is professional suicide to involve oneself in illegal practices. 3. One who commits suicide.

[Ken Carman]

There's a long history of people waiting to die until something happens. My mother, who should have died a year after she got cancer in the 60s... at best, lived seven years. She waited to die six months until my brother Ted came home from the service in the 60s. No one could figure out how she held on.

So do we pick when we die? Sometimes but would that be suicide? It's a bit of a stretch.

Personally, it's our life. We have the right to choose. Is it a good thing we do? Not always. Often: not. And I've been here before, almost 40 years ago... and promised myself I'd never go back.

[Lullaby Chainer]

According to popular theories involving quantum mechanics, it's impossible to die.

Google search:

"quantum suicide"

"quantum immortality"

[Gods_Mercenary]

If you intend for yourself to die, it's suicide. Suicide is not just causing your own death, just like accidentally killing someone else is not murder. It is defined by intent, not only result.

[loser]

Wrong. Suicide is defined by death. No death, no suicide. What you have when you are unsuccessful is ATTEMPTED SUICIDE, which is a prosecutable crime...suicide is not.

I eventually proposed this question to him and it blew his mind.

I bet that made a loud explosion...about like Rice Krispies in milk.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I said not only result. In any action, the result obviously dictates whether it is successful in acheiving the end the perpetrator intended.

[Jayjhis]

Even by your overly simplified logic, premeditated murder would usually not be a suicide since in most cases your own choices and actions have nothing to do with it. I don't mean walking through a bad neighborhood wearing gang colors and yelling obscenities and getting murdered, I mean someone wants to kill you so they find you wherever you are or break into your house and kill you. Yes. Do I get a cookie?

[davedes]

Suicide is the act of intentionally ending one's life.

eg.
1) Developed adult jumps off a building with the intention of ending his/her life. This is suicide.
2) Small child jumps off building not realizing the consequences. This is not suicide, but an "accidental" death.

[Osborn F Enready]

Yes, suicide exists.

[Morality Games]

Under the logical conditons you have posited, all deaths are suicides (I'm not going to strain my mind to figure out the sole exception), although if you think that is a profound realization, you have a hideous conception of the purpose of philosophy.

For starters, that definition, while one possible meaning for the term 'suicide', draws upon no standard which somehow makes it superior to any other. I could say 'suicide' is a description of the entity we conventionally called a 'donkey', not a depiction of a particular process of dying, and I would have the same justification for my assertion as you have for yours ... I want that to be the object referenced by the term 'suicide'. However, what we want a term to represent and what it conventionally refers to in contemporary discussion are two entirely different things.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer According to popular theories involving quantum mechanics, it's impossible to die. Google search: "quantum suicide" "quantum immortality"

This is a thought experiment not a reflection of whether you can die or not.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: SoylentGreen This is a thought experiment not a reflection of whether you can die or not.

Sure, I just thought it was interesting.

[Darebirth]

Can I have everyone's attention please? I know that the logic is inherently flawed. The original question was can anybody figure out an instance in which this logic does not apply?

I'll help out by giving the one single instance that I could think of.

Abortion.

The death of a fetus is not the result of a choice made by the fetus because the fetus did not choose to be conceived.

Can anybody else think of an instance in which the logic in the original post would not apply.

Also, I did make a small typing error in the definiton of suicide in the original post. Allow me to correct that here.

Suicide - A death resulting from a choice in which death was a possible result.

[Darebirth]

Quote by: Walrus Then what do you call it if you decide not to live?

Actually, if you finished reading the post you would see that I did adress that question.

[Darebirth]

Quote by: Captain Cardio But regardless, was dieing of old age the instance you were refering to?

No, but that is something to consider. Ageing is not a choice, so dying of old age cannot be the result of a choice.

However, it could be argued that choosing to live another day knowing that death is a possibility, but not dying that day, is just prolonging your eventual death of old age. Hmm, that is an interesting concept.

[Darebirth]

Quote by: loser Wrong. Suicide is defined by death. No death, no suicide. What you have when you are unsuccessful is ATTEMPTED SUICIDE, which is a prosecutable crime...suicide is not.

I said that if you make a choice in which DEATH is a possible result, and you DIE, that is a suicide.

I was aware that attempted suicide is prosecutable, and I think that is hilarious. Also, I think there are several states in the U.S. in which suicide is prosecutable. How that law is enforced is beyond me.

[stardust]

If you have the intention to die, and you make an attempt to die, and you finally die. Then that's suicide, no?