Does suicide exist?

[Walrus]

Quote by: Darebirth Actually, if you finished reading the post you would see that I did adress that question.

No, you have redefined suicide then claimed that it doesn’t exist.

Intending to live with the foreknowledge of eventual failure does not equate to intending to die with the foreknowledge of possible success. The success of the latter having its cause defined as suicide.

[SoylentGreen]

First and foremost, we most define Suicide. Suicide is the making of a choice in which death is a possible result. Ex. You make the choice of jumping off the empire state building. You definitly know that death could be a possible result. Therefore, if you die, it is a suicide. So now that we have defined suicide,

Hold on there . I disagree with your definition. suicide is the act of intentionally taking one’s own life. Because this definition does not specify the outcome of such acts, it is customary to distinguish between fatal suicide and attempted, or nonfatal, suicide.
The making of a choice by the person committing the act of suicide can many and varied .

It can be the deliberate taking of one's own life. Suicide may be compulsory, prescribed by custom or enjoined by the authorities, usually as an alternative to death at the hands of others, or it may be committed for personal motives. Depending on the time and place, it may be regarded as a heroic deed or condemned by religious and civil authorities.

The problem of suicide can be approached from two different angles: the sociological, which stresses social pressures and the importance of social integration, and the psychoanalytic, which centers on the driving force of guilt and anxiety and the inverting of aggressive impulses. Recent studies have done much to dispel some of the myths surrounding suicide, such as the beliefs that suicidal tendencies are inherited, that suicidal tendencies cannot be reversed, and that persons who announce their intention to commit suicide will not carry out the threat.

Considering that i do not cross every street with the deliberate intention of taking my own life then if i should die it would be an accident and nothing more.

[Jayjhis]

I think the biggest flaw in your reasoning is that people don't "decide" to live every day. They can decide not to, then carry out the necessary steps, which is suicide, but most human beings under normal circumstances cannot simply will their heart to stop beating, and if you hold your breath long enough you will eventually pass out and resume respiration. In fact, the only way to kill yourself without taking some kind of purposeful action specifically for that purpose would be to stop eating and/or drinking until you die of thirst or starvation.

The broadest definition you could probably get away with would be to say that any unhealthy lifestyle choice you make or dangerous situation in which you put yourself into creates a possibility for suicide. Stuff like smoking or drinking or driving unsafely or moving to a dangerous neighborhood.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Darebirth Ex. You make the choice of jumping off the empire state building. You definitly know that death could be a possible result. Therefore, if you die, it is a suicide. So now that we have defined suicide, we can take it a step further. When you cross the street, you look both ways because you know it is a possibility that you could be hit by a car. Therefore, if you make the choice to cross the street, and you being hit by a car is a possibility, and you get hit by a car, that is a suicide. Let us take another step forward. If you wake up in the morning and decide to live that day, and you die (by any means in which a person can die) that is a suicide. You make the choice to live that day knowing that you could possibly die. That's a suicide.

My, my, isn't this a lovely exercise in advanced navel gazing.

Look, it's quite simple... suicide is exactly what the definitions says, the intentional taking of one's own life. If you make the choice to cross the street, you are NOT intentionally choosing to take your own life. Likewise when you wake up in the morning and then die, you did not intentionally take your own life.

And as Jayjhis pointed out, we can not simply will our hearts to stop. Therefore suicide involves active steps taken with the intention of murdering ourselves... jumping off a building, firing a gun into our own head, taking sufficient drugs in a dosage you know will be fatal.

Where'd you come up with this silly word game, Darebirth?

Quote by: Jayjhis The broadest definition you could probably get away with would be to say that any unhealthy lifestyle choice you make or dangerous situation in which you put yourself into creates a possibility for suicide.

The 'ol 'Deathwish' scenario, which probably exists... people drinking themselves to death, etc. out of self-loathing and emotional pain. But that's probably less a conscious act than subliminal.

Again, suicide strikes me more as a conscious, intentional act to end your own life.

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[Derach]

Quote by: Darebirth I said that if you make a choice in which DEATH is a possible result, and you DIE, that is a suicide.

That definition is not accurate. Suicide has to involve 'pre-meditation'. Suicide cannot really be accidental, and it is not the result in which death is a POSSIBILITY .... Death is a possibility in almost every action we can take. A guy I know was killed walking out of a grocery store when he tripped and hit his head on a curb. Not suicide. Death has to be the INTENT ... not a possible (or even likely) result.

This is just the pointless fodder of some philosophy professor who smoked too much dope and wants to waste a class thinking about a topic that is flawed in its inception because of a lousy self-imposed definition that doesn't hold water.

[Simonius]

The basic premise of this is not very logical.

If you jump of a tall building with the intention of dying and with the knowledge that death is the most likely income and you die then that is sucide.

If you go to carefully cross the street with the intention of getting to the other side and the knowledge that death is a faint possibility and you die, then that is accidental death.

To use an analogy.

If I inject someone with poisen with the intention of killing them and they die it is murder.

If I inject someone with an experimental medicine to save their life but I know there is a 40% chance of death, and they die then it is not murder.