Invitation to Challange the LDS (mormon) Religion

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Zhavric I am not saying "the mormon god is energy". I challenge you to find where I stated or even implied such nonsense. There is no god. What I did claim is that for Jesus to teleport from the mid east to America, it would take a tremendous amount of energy. As in more energy than is found on the Earth. So, claiming, "Jesus teleported to America" is exactly the same as claiming "There's more energy on the Earth than on the sun"... which is false.

Nobody says he just teleported, for starters. Second of all, since we dont know everything, we also know that science doesnt state "there is only one possible way of teleporting objects"
When push comes to shove, if science was a complete subject with all of our questions answered, then I should say that then is the appropriate time to say there is no God. Of course, we wont know everything, and I doubt that there is sufficent evidence to say there is absolutly no God, and there is no way to say there is only one way to move from point A to point B.

[Darebirth]

Quote by: Kakumei If there are those of you out there that want to challange the beliefs of the LDS religion, I am here to defend it on the behalf. Ill also answer questions about the belief, It seems many people here do not like or are not educated in the matter.

Sorry I'm responding so late to this topic. I hope the original poster is still here.

Anyway, before I ask my question, I would like to appologize in advance if I misapropriate any beleif of mainstream mormonism as my only runthrough of it was given to me by a very discriminating source (i.e. schoolteacher).

From what I understand, mormons explain the existence of different races of people on earth by saying that they are the angels from the revolution that apparently happened in heaven. The angels that had sided with god in this revolution were allowed to stay in heaven with god, while the angles who sided with satan (or against god, if you prefer) were put on the earth as black people (so, I guess they were sentenced to Africa) and those who had remained neutral (not as serious an offence) were still sentenced to earth, but as white people.

So, my question is this. Where did Asian people come from?

[Zhavric]

I forgot all about this thread. Maybe Kak will return and step up.

Quote by: Kakumei Nobody says he just teleported, for starters.

Kak, we know there wasn't a Jesus. Discussing how he got to America is akin to discussing how Superman gets to Gotham from Metropolis.

Second of all, since we dont know everything, we also know that science doesnt state "there is only one possible way of teleporting objects"

Horrible argument. We don't need to know everything to know specific things. That's what we have logic, reason, and science for... For example, I know that 1+1 doesn't equal 3. I know that Jewish cult tried to re-invent itself under Roman occupation. I know that X=X and that X=/=Y. I understand the physics behind moving particles. If you have another way to move them and can present evidence, then do so. Else, concede that it's impossible and that this part of your worldview is critically flawed.

When push comes to shove, if science was a complete subject with all of our questions answered, then I should say that then is the appropriate time to say there is no God.

Oh, that would be now.

[Theists] are apt to quote the late Stephen Jay Gould's 'NOMA' — 'non-overlapping magisteria'. Gould claimed that science and true religion never come into conflict because they exist in completely separate dimensions of discourse:

To say it for all my colleagues and for the umpteenth millionth time (from college bull sessions to learned treatises): science simply cannot (by its legitimate methods) adjudicate the issue of God's possible superintendence of nature. We neither affirm nor deny it; we simply can't comment on it as scientists.

This sounds terrific, right up until you give it a moment's thought. You then realize that the presence of a creative deity in the universe is clearly a scientific hypothesis. Indeed, it is hard to imagine a more momentous hypothesis in all of science. A universe with a god would be a completely different kind of universe from one without, and it would be a scientific difference. God could clinch the matter in his favour at any moment by staging a spectacular demonstration of his powers, one that would satisfy the exacting standards of science. Even the infamous Templeton Foundation recognized that God is a scientific hypothesis — by funding double-blind trials to test whether remote prayer would speed the recovery of heart patients. It didn't, of course, although a control group who knew they had been prayed for tended to get worse (how about a class action suit against the Templeton Foundation?) Despite such well-financed efforts, no evidence for God's existence has yet appeared.

To see the disingenuous hypocrisy of religious people who embrace NOMA, imagine that forensic archeologists, by some unlikely set of circumstances, discovered DNA evidence demonstrating that Jesus was born of a virgin mother and had no father. If NOMA enthusiasts were sincere, they should dismiss the archeologists' DNA out of hand: "Irrelevant. Scientific evidence has no bearing on theological questions. Wrong magisterium." Does anyone seriously imagine that they would say anything remotely like that? You can bet your boots that not just the fundamentalists but every professor of theology and every bishop in the land would trumpet the archeological evidence to the skies.

Either Jesus had a father or he didn't. The question is a scientific one, and scientific evidence, if any were available, would be used to settle it. The same is true of any miracle — and the deliberate and intentional creation of the universe would have to have been the mother and father of all miracles. Either it happened or it didn't. It is a fact, one way or the other, and in our state of uncertainty we can put a probability on it — an estimate that may change as more information comes in.

So, you see, the god hypothesis is fatally flawed.

But we're not here to discuss that. We're here to discuss the bogus claims made by the con men who started your religion.

You've had all this time and you're still unable and/or unwilling to address all the problems I raised with your religion. Now were you lying when you made your initial post? Did you invite questions but have no intention of answering them? Either address the objections or concede the argument.

[Night]

Kakumei, I have three questions for you. My first two are simple, and my third exposes the true logical falsity of "good-evil" religions like Mormonism.

1. If the garden of Eden is in Missouri...why are the oldest fossils of humans found in Africa? Why would God put them there...to "test your faith", which is basically to trick you?

2. Why are there other religions? If Mormonism is the truth, then why would there be other religions that people are born to, live their entire life in, and die in, just like you? Their religion is absolutely no different then Mormonism in the fact that it is the only "real" religion, and the only "real" way to heaven. Why is Mormonism any better?

3. Your religious scriptures say God made Jesus...and the devil. So, the devil chose to make Jesus, and chose to make the devil. God knowingly created the devil, who in turn, created all evil.

So in effect, God knowingly created all evil in the world, through his own creation (the devil)...?

[Darebirth]

Quote by: Night 3. Your religious scriptures say God made Jesus...and the devil. So, the devil chose to make Jesus, and chose to make the devil. God knowingly created the devil, who in turn, created all evil. So in effect, God knowingly created all evil in the world, through his own creation (the devil)...?

I'm not necessarily defending mormonism, but Christianity has this same fundamental problem. God created humans who supposedly created evil, but most Christians will say its not god's fault. I agree with you that it is still god's fault, even if it is a byproduct of something which he has created.