Invitation to Challange the LDS (mormon) Religion

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Kakumei - The Book of Abraham, from Egyptian papyrus scrolls which came into his possession in 1835. He stated that the scrolls were written by the biblical Abraham "by his own hand." Smith's translation is now accepted as scripture by the LDS church, as part of its Pearl of Great Price. Smith also produced an "Egyptian Grammar" based on his translation. Modern scholars of ancient Egyptian agree that the scrolls are common Egyptian funeral scrolls, entirely pagan in nature, having nothing to do with Abraham, and from a period 2000 years later than Abraham. The "Grammar" has been said by Egyptologists to prove that Smith had no notion of the Egyptian language. It is pure fantasy: he made it up. NOTES This is one of my favorites, because they dont have the same papyri that Joseph Smith originally had.

So, Smith made another translation that's NOT made up? Where is that?

That being said, how can you prove whats false if you dont have anything to test?

This is a fallacy called "shifting the burden of proof". You're the one who's claiming that Smith was able to translate Egyptian, right? Then it's up to you to prove it.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Zhavric So, Smith made another translation that's NOT made up? Where is that? This is a fallacy called "shifting the burden of proof". You're the one who's claiming that Smith was able to translate Egyptian, right? Then it's up to you to prove it.

Again, how should I know what the man did with the texts? Hes like, been dead for a couple hundred years now. I am not shifting the burden of proof, I am mearly saying that I cannont prove it, and neither can you. There is no burden if there is not proof on either side.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Zhavric All of the above which you claim to be what mormons actually believe is BS. Seriously, why would you believe something so outlandish? This is flying spahgetti monster caliber nonsense, man. Planet Kolob? Garden of eden in Missouri? Are you out of your fracking mind? Oh, I don't know... how about the REST of what I posted?

Again, im too lazy to go through the rest of what I posted, second, why is it so outlandish to believe this stuff, and not to believe that we are just here to exist for a little while by some random chance with nothing in the world to really know or work for? If you ask me, atheism would also believe in random life on other planets, most I know, dont.

[rez]

Quote by: Kakumei Again, im too lazy to go through the rest of what I posted

Right, uh huh good. You 100% fully believe in something that has no way of being backed up at all. Joseph Smith had golden tablets that nobody else but his close friends saw, but its ok not to show anybody else. Infact, if you lived back then and someone said that Joseph had these golden tablets from the supernatural, you would just believe it. I mean, who questions things? Who in their right mind would question the validity of a claim.

I mean it would be like questioning the little boy knocking on your door asking for money. You don't ask any questions, you just believe him and give him your money. Or like when a car salesman says this car has low mileage or it has no problems, you just believe him and then go buy the car.


Kakumei, you don't live your life according to this type of philosophy, do you?

second, why is it so outlandish to believe this stuff, and not to believe that we are just here to exist for a little while by some random chance with nothing in the world to really know or work for?

No. You can't act like it is absurd or ridiculous that reality can operate by itself unaided by any magical beings. We have information accumulated over thousands of years about how planets work, how they are formed. Information about how a plant grows, what genes are, what cells are and how they reproduce. Human beings have senses, it just so happens these senses can comprehend reality. The only thing that humans have to do is just watch reality, and learn from it. The thing is, when I watch reality ghosts, demons, geneies, and angels don't fly around and interact with me or society.

And if you think it is so ridiculous then perhaps you should go and investigate the ridiculous explanation instead of just using one book poorly written by an uneducated hoaxer to explain reality.

Just because you can't understand Central limit theorm, does not give you the excuse to study preschool philosophy on how reality operates.

You tell a baby that magic formed the earth, then when they are older and can critically think you tell them what the magic is made of --- numbers, molecules, atoms..

You, my friend, are stuck in preschool.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Kakumei Again, how should I know what the man did with the texts? Hes like, been dead for a couple hundred years now. I am not shifting the burden of proof, I am mearly saying that I cannont prove it...

If you can't prove it, then it's false. People who lived a couple hundred years ago in the middle of nowhere America don't magically learn Egyptian.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Kakumei Again, im too lazy to go through the rest of what I posted, second, why is it so outlandish to believe this stuff,

Because it's nonsense, K. It's very very obviously impossible. It's no different from asking "Why is it so outlandish to believe that 1+1=3?" Because 1+1 doesn't equal 3. Your religion, it's the 19th century version of Scientology.

and not to believe that we are just here to exist for a little while by some random chance with nothing in the world to really know or work for? If you ask me, atheism would also believe in random life on other planets, most I know, dont.

A) This isn't about atheism. You are the one who invited questions about your religion. It's up to you to answer them. Not evade them.

B) Atheism doesn't demand anyone believe things which are false at face value.

C) We don't need the right answer to discard one we know to be false. If X is a number between 1 and 10 then the statement X+5=50 is wrong. Not unknown. Not possible. Wrong. False. Likewise, we don't need to know life's ultimate meaning or origin to know that the ramblings of a long dead womanizing con man aren't the answer.

[Zhavric]

Please address the point I raised in post 20.

[stevemckay]

Quote by: Kakumei Not only will human beings be resurrected to eternal life, but also all animals - everything that has ever lived on earth - will be resurrected and dwell in heaven. t

Aw man! You mean there will be fleas and mosquitoes in heaven? That sucks.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Zhavric So, let me get this straight. If I pass a law that says, "Mormonism is silly and should be outlawed. Parents should teach their kids not to be Mormons." You'd be okay with that, right? And here in lies a great problem for you: If you say, "Yes, I'd follow that law" then there wouldn't be any Mormons. If you say, "No, I wouldn't follow that law" then you're picking and choosing which part of your (allegedly) holy text you want to follow.

Heh, look up what our Church did when it was kicked out of a country in Africa for a while, thats what will happen.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Zhavric Likewise, we don't need to know life's ultimate meaning or origin to know that the ramblings of a long dead womanizing con man aren't the answer.

See, this is easy to comment on, considering the Government, instead of owning up to the crap it does on occation, must falisfy a history on a man who did what he thought was right in the site of his God.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: rez Right, uh huh good. You 100% fully believe in something that has no way of being backed up at all. Joseph Smith had golden tablets that nobody else but his close friends saw, but its ok not to show anybody else. Infact, if you lived back then and someone said that Joseph had these golden tablets from the supernatural, you would just believe it. I mean, who questions things? Who in their right mind would question the validity of a claim. I mean it would be like questioning the little boy knocking on your door asking for money. You don't ask any questions, you just believe him and give him your money. Or like when a car salesman says this car has low mileage or it has no problems, you just believe him and then go buy the car. Kakumei, you don't live your life according to this type of philosophy, do you? No. You can't act like it is absurd or ridiculous that reality can operate by itself unaided by any magical beings. We have information accumulated over thousands of years about how planets work, how they are formed. Information about how a plant grows, what genes are, what cells are and how they reproduce. Human beings have senses, it just so happens these senses can comprehend reality. The only thing that humans have to do is just watch reality, and learn from it. The thing is, when I watch reality ghosts, demons, geneies, and angels don't fly around and interact with me or society. And if you think it is so ridiculous then perhaps you should go and investigate the ridiculous explanation instead of just using one book poorly written by an uneducated hoaxer to explain reality. Just because you can't understand Central limit theorm, does not give you the excuse to study preschool philosophy on how reality operates. You tell a baby that magic formed the earth, then when they are older and can critically think you tell them what the magic is made of --- numbers, molecules, atoms.. You, my friend, are stuck in preschool.

I usually dont bother answering what you say, because everything you say has some sort of personal attack attached to it. Ill be darned how much of your own theorys you understand yourself. If I could remember the quote I read by good ol Albert Einstien, he had an understanding of how things work into our perception and how we understand things. He says that something with and that gives energy, will always give energy, even if we are no longer able to see it. He says when something dies, it changes, and that the energy just leaves as apposed to stoping. He also thought out that that energy goes somewhere, even though we do not see it. In this case, he called there is a place X, where energy goes once its beyond a point of death. He never commented on what place X was, but that its there, and we will not know where it is, but its a key factor in the universe.

I dont know what it is myself, nor do I believe I ever will. I merely will follow what makes most sence to me, and learn.
I have slight damage to certain nerves in my brain, so I use diffrent parts of it, and all in all, perhaps this is why I link Religion and Science together.
I believe in an all knowing God, and if this all knowing God truly exists, then he is the ultimate scientist. Perhaps you may not like my ways of believeing things, however, I still do believe in Evolution, and the Big Bang, things of that sort. I understand things better that you realize, I just understand it in a different way.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: rez I mean it would be like questioning the little boy knocking on your door asking for money. You don't ask any questions, you just believe him and give him your money.

I would give him money just for the fact that its in good character. If life is as meaningless as many say, then whats a couple of dollars to me?

[Morality Games]

Quote by: Kakumei I would give him money just for the fact that its in good character. If life is as meaningless as many say, then whats a couple of dollars to me?

'Interpretation of meaning' is a function of the mind. It doesn't rely on God being real, or a particular religion being right, to exist itself. Meaning exists so long as the mind experiences something. Meaning is the sense the mind derives from an analysis of the objectives, what the existence of those objectives represents to the mind.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Morality Games 'Interpretation of meaning' is a function of the mind. It doesn't rely on God being real, or a particular religion being right, to exist itself. Meaning exists so long as the mind experiences something. Meaning is the sense the mind derives from an analysis of the objectives.

Sorry, I think im slightly missing your point...

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Winter wind Mormons rock (except they don't drink tea). but really, but it would be easier if you post the common misconceptions and then tell us why they are wrong.

Heh, thanks for the comment, aparrently im a stupid ape because I believe in what I cannot see. Kinda like my teachers brain, lol. (okay seriously, my teacher is singing his ABC'c, is that absence of intellagence?)

[Morality Games]

Quote by: Kakumei Sorry, I think im slightly missing your point...

As an example then, I experience 'reading a play'. Analysis of the content of this play reveals it is a story about how young love accepts no boundaries (Romeo and Juliet). So, the existence of the play, to me, represents that young love accepts no boundaries (other people will probably reach the same conclusion, as the form of the play presents itself similarily to all).

Also, I don't think very many people claim life is meaningless. You are just upset they don't accept what you find meaningful as authentic, because it doesn't seem consistent with the facts derived from rigorous investigation.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Morality Games As an example then, I experience 'reading a play'. Analysis of the content of this play reveals it is a story about how young love accepts no boundaries (Romeo and Juliet). So, the existence of the play, to me, represents that young love accepts no boundaries. Also, I don't think very many people claim life is meaningless. You are just upset they don't accept what you find meaningful as authentic, because it doesn't seem consistent with the facts derived from rigorous investigation.

Hm, I never thought of it that way, and I understand it now. I never honestly had the intention of coming away with a victory against athiests, i just did it to challage my own beliefs. I believe I have achieve a victory in understanding and accepting what you have told me. and I thank you for that. I think Ill turn to you on advice for things now, lol.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Kakumei The first part of the post, a male should serve a mission to give service to the Lord. They go at 19 years old and serve 2 years. This is 20% of there life at this point. Women dont because much of there service taking care of children and more of all, going through the pains of having them. That goes back to "what all counts as service to the Lord?"

Are most of the girls serving their husbands at age 19? Is divorse okay and can a man morally have sex with his x-wives after he gets married again to the next wife?

What is the lastest new thing the Mormon Prophet has revealed to the church membership?

[rez]

Quote by: Kakumei I usually dont bother answering what you say, because everything you say has some sort of personal attack attached to it. Ill be darned how much of your own theorys you understand yourself. If I could remember the quote I read by good ol Albert Einstien, he had an understanding of how things work into our perception and how we understand things. He says that something with and that gives energy, will always give energy, even if we are no longer able to see it. He says when something dies, it changes, and that the energy just leaves as apposed to stoping. He also thought out that that energy goes somewhere, even though we do not see it. In this case, he called there is a place X, where energy goes once its beyond a point of death. He never commented on what place X was, but that its there, and we will not know where it is, but its a key factor in the universe.

Is this a personal attack?

Albert Einstein also said that god does not play dice. His own beliefs could not allow him to connect his theory of general relativity and quantum physics together. If Albert Einstein were alive today, he would be under a different set of believes about reality. He did not end his career well....

I wonder, are you partically a Mormon because you lack an intermediate understanding of what Albert Eistein did and said?

I dont know what it is myself, nor do I believe I ever will. I merely will follow what makes most sence to me, and learn.

Sorry, but no. I won't let you get away with that. There are hundreds of other supernatural religions out there. All of which use magic to explain how things operate in reality. All of which have as much evidence to back up as the next supernatural religion. If you think LDS makes total, sense, wait till you learn about Hinduism...

I have slight damage to certain nerves in my brain, so I use diffrent parts of it, and all in all, perhaps this is why I link Religion and Science together.

Because you have a deficency in your brain? Thats not a good enough reason.

I believe in an all knowing God, and if this all knowing God truly exists, then he is the ultimate scientist. Perhaps you may not like my ways of believing things, however, I still do believe in Evolution, and the Big Bang, things of that sort. I understand things better that you realize, I just understand it in a different way.

Sorry, but this is about Mormonism. You believe God lives on a planet near the star Kolob. I can see how you can believe that all human share chromosomes that can be paired with one another, but you still have a problem with Kolob.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Technosoul Are most of the girls serving their husbands at age 19? Is divorse okay and can a man morally have sex with his x-wives after he gets married again to the next wife? What is the lastest new thing the Mormon Prophet has revealed to the church membership?

No they usually marry after the men get off there missions. There are not guidliness on the age of marage, just as long as its moral, and its withing the boundries of the law. We also believe that it is a sin to divorce a spouse in most events, with the acception of there being serious sin, such as Adultery and Murder and all that.
No, they cannot have sex with the previous spouse, as they are no longer bound by marriage.

When it coms to new revealations, at this point we dont get many. For now, it comes down to reignforcing the teachings already known, as we are all liable to forget and become involved in immoral activities and worldly things. "Be in the world, but not of the world" is how its quoted. We have to master what we already know before recieveing the new. ^_^