A baby is NOT born in debt

[Lullaby Chainer]

What has a new born baby done to be in a debt of such severity that it hangs in the balance of possible damnation?



What is Jesus forgiving this baby of? What the hell did it do?

How valuable is forgiveness under threat? Under circumstances? Under forced contract?

How evil is it to forgive mankind for something God caused but only if you worship his son?

I don't know about you Christians, but when I see a beautiful healthy new baby.. I don't see a ticking contract.. I see hope. I see purity.

[Tycoon]

What has a new born baby done to be in a debt of such severity that it hangs in the balance of possible damnation?

What is Jesus forgiving this baby of? What the hell did it do?

How valuable is forgiveness under threat? Under circumstances? Under forced contract?

Just more questions that Christianity cannot answer.

[HelioPrime]

Correct Tycoon!

Since no christian really knows how judgement is undertaken then none of us know who gets into heaven or not. Perhaps everyone does, even atheists, perhaps not. Perhaps babies are tossed into hell simply because they were not born in the right place.

Judgement is what it is, arguing about the unfairness of some of the possibilities doesn't change the end result.

That's akin to saying the tax code is unjust and because of that needs to be abolished. Doesn't change the fact your still going to be paying Uncle Sam or be hauled off to jail in the end.

[Tycoon]

Since no christian really knows how judgement is undertaken then none of us know who gets into heaven or not. Perhaps everyone does, even atheists, perhaps not. Perhaps babies are tossed into hell simply because they were not born in the right place.

Lullaby Chainer quite obviously brought these questions up for debate to question the integrity of the Christian religion. Pointing out flaws in God's supposed absolute justice and moral integrity just show more contradictions of the Christian faith. If there is evidence that God is not perfect as Christianity preaches then there is evidence against Christianity.

Judgement is what it is, arguing about the unfairness of some of the possibilities doesn't change the end result.

What it does do is question if the judgement and end result even exist.

[Maryjane]

That's akin to saying the tax code is unjust and because of that needs to be abolished. Doesn't change the fact your still going to be paying Uncle Sam or be hauled off to jail in the end.

Pretty snarky Helio.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Tycoon Lullaby Chainer quite obviously brought these questions up for debate to question the integrity of the Christian religion. Pointing out flaws in God's supposed absolute justice and moral integrity just show more contradictions of the Christian faith. If there is evidence that God is not perfect as Christianity preaches then there is evidence against Christianity.

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

The bible already contains enough stories regarding tests of faith. The lives of people like Job were hardly perfect. So no, there is not set precedent that christianity and the world must be perfect according to our point of view.

What it does do is question if the judgement and end result even exist.

How so?

In the eyes of agnostics and atheists I suppose so. But not to mainline people of christian faith. It's in the atheists view that the world must be perfection if order for God to exist.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Maryjane Pretty snarky Helio.

I always try to throw in tax examples. Never ceases to amaze me how many hardcore founding father lovers want a return to the constitution as written except for the part about the power to tax the people.

[Tycoon]

The bible already contains enough stories regarding tests of faith. The lives of people like Job were hardly perfect. So no, there is not set precedent that christianity and the world must be perfect according to our point of view.

No, not that Christianity or the people who follow it must be perfect. God must be perfect. These questions that Lullaby brings up point out that God cannot be perfect.

In the eyes of agnostics and atheists I suppose so. But not to mainline people of christian faith. It's in the atheists view that the world must be perfection if order for God to exist.

Not the world. God must be perfect. These questions bring the integrity of Christianity into question, and so in this debate it should not be assumed that Christianity is correct. Stop looking at it in terms of atheist and Christian, look at it from a neutral perspective. Then see if you can answer Lullaby's questions and maintain the belief that God is perfect.

[Maryjane]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer What has a new born baby done to be in a debt of such severity that it hangs in the balance of possible damnation? What is Jesus forgiving this baby of? What the hell did it do? How valuable is forgiveness under threat? Under circumstances? Under forced contract? How evil is it to forgive mankind for something God caused but only if you worship his son? I don't know about you Christians, but when I see a beautiful healthy new baby.. I don't see a ticking contract.. I see hope. I see purity.

I'm not sure what the answer is? Depending on which faith you ask, a lot of people will try to rationalize it's gods way of punishing them, not the child. I suppose that's why there are so many denominations?

[Jack]

It's in the atheists view that the world must be perfection if order for God to exist.

Is that the message you get from our asking why, if there's a god, religious people can't behave more in accordance with their faith? No Earthly condition will enable gods to exist. Perfection is a poorly imagined and nonsensical notion.

Comparing the religious notion that children go to hell with the tax laws only accomplishes one thing; it illustrates that both are poorly designed human constructs in need of rethinking.

[Maryjane]

I always try to throw in tax examples. Never ceases to amaze me how many hardcore founding father lovers want a return to the constitution as written except for the part about the power to tax the people.

I knew where you were going with it the first time...thanks for confirming my suspicion.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Maryjane I knew where you were going with it the first time...thanks for confirming my suspicion.

People say I kill the joke....

I have a vague feeling they might be right.

[Maryjane]

Comparing the religious notion that children go to hell with the tax laws only accomplishes one thing; it illustrates that both are poorly designed human constructs in need of rethinking.

You eventually get out of jail or debtors prison. Hell is eternal.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Tycoon No, not that Christianity or the people who follow it must be perfect. God must be perfect. These questions that Lullaby brings up point out that God cannot be perfect.

Why must God be perfect? And does that mean all creation must be perfect as well?

Is your definition of what God must be the absolute correct one?

Not the world. God must be perfect. These questions bring the integrity of Christianity into question, and so in this debate it should not be assumed that Christianity is correct. Stop looking at it in terms of atheist and Christian, look at it from a neutral perspective. Then see if you can answer Lullaby's questions and maintain the belief that God is perfect.

God isn't a human so perfect doesn't apply. Life is a test, and a test that isn't mean to be easy or clear as glass.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Jack Is that the message you get from our asking why, if there's a god, religious people can't behave more in accordance with their faith? No Earthly condition will enable gods to exist. Perfection is a poorly imagined and nonsensical notion. Comparing the religious notion that children go to hell with the tax laws only accomplishes one thing; it illustrates that both are poorly designed human constructs in need of rethinking.

No earthy condition will allow God to exist?

Are we talking about your concept of the god what must obey the laws of physics and leave a verifiable trail of evidence?

[Tycoon]

Why must God be perfect? And does that mean all creation must be perfect as well?

Christianity says so. To claim God is not perfect is to contradict Christianity.

God isn't a human so perfect doesn't apply. Life is a test, and a test that isn't mean to be easy or clear as glass.

The idea that God is not human or like humans is simply an excuse to circumvent contradictions against Christianity. Doesn't the bible say that God made us in his image? That when Adam and Eve sinned we became like him? If God is to judge us then doesn't he have to factor in the fact that we are human and bound to our own limitations? It's either that or we are all destined for Hell.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Tycoon Christianity says so. To claim God is not perfect is to contradict Christianity.

Do all christian say that?

If one christian says it then is it true for everyone?

The idea that God is not human or like humans is simply an excuse to circumvent contradictions against Christianity. Doesn't the bible say that God made us in his image? That when Adam and Eve sinned we became like him? If God is to judge us then doesn't he have to factor in the fact that we are human and bound to our own limitations? It's either that or we are all destined for Hell.

A hot wheels car is made in the image of a Corvette. Is it anything like the Corvette aside from being made of metal?

So no, made in the image does not equate to God being human.

I also find it funny atheists discredit the bible but use direct examples from it when it suits their needs.

[Maryjane]

Quote by: HelioPrime People say I kill the joke.... I have a vague feeling they might be right.

Is this where I interject a comment about board games and follow you in derailment?

[Tycoon]

Do all christian say that? If one christian says it then is it true for everyone?

I'd be surprised if you found a Christian who didn't believe God is perfect.

A hot wheels car is made in the image of a Corvette. Is it anything like the Corvette aside from being made of metal?

What about where the bible says that we became like God, having free will etc.? You bring up this example to discredit the fact that I brought up how we are in God's image, yet you ignore the other fact. Funny how Christians do that, huh?

I also find it funny atheists discredit the bible but use direct examples from it when it suits their needs.

Direct examples from the bible used to prove their own falseness.

[Anmon]

lol and the Christian bashing threads keep rolling in.
As if God would send a a baby to hell for anything in the first place.