Is the afterlife even possible?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: radarlove I have discussed the afterlife with various atheists over the years. Overall, I have found them to be blinkered, extreme, predictable and often quite tedious with their insipid argument.

I'm not so sure. Well, predictable I guess, but not extreme or off base.

Where's the empirical evidence?

You give, not decisive evidence, but circumstantial that doesn't stand up to review.

I'm not saying the conclusion is wrong, but the scientific data isn't wonderful. It's not fool proof. Most importantly, it's not decisive.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Winter wind I'm not so sure. Well, predictable I guess, but not extreme or off base. Where's the empirical evidence? You give, not decisive evidence, but circumstantial that doesn't stand up to review. I'm not saying the conclusion is wrong, but the scientific data isn't wonderful. It's not fool proof. Most importantly, it's not decisive.

Do NOT misquote me. That was radarlove who stated that. Not me.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Radarlove Zhavric, Are you one of Dawkin's rottweilers? I have discussed the afterlife with various atheists over the years. Overall, I have found them to be blinkered, extreme, predictable and often quite tedious with their insipid argument.

Those darn atheists. All that silly intellectual honesty. The idea that 1+1 just HAS to equal 2. What are they thinking?

Atheists are so wound up about religion and God that the realisation there may be an afterlife without a required religious faith attached completely throws them.

Prove it.

What you'll find is that atheists are just people with highly developed bullsh** detectors. Whether it's in church or a coffee shop, a claim of an afterlife is still unsupported and ridiculous.

I am not religious. I don't believe in God. Yet, I whole-heartedly accept there is an afterlife.

This is like stating, "I'm a mathematician. I believe in numbers as taught in academic establishments (like universities). Yet, I whole-heartedly accept that 1+1=3 in a base 10 number system." It's not a matter of whether you're a theist or an atheist. You've simply made a claim that is not true.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: zhavric (for real this time) Do NOT misquote me. That was radarlove who stated that. Not me.

Christ, that's like the fifth time I've done that this week. Sorry about that. In my defense, my post wasn't illogical. I just wrote the wrong name in...

[Radarlove]

Zhavric,

"You've simply made a claim that is not true."

Ho hum, a typical atheistic comment. :o) Atheism is yet another religion. As extreme and blinkered as Christian or Islamic fundamentalism.

You offer Atheists evidence for an afterlife but it's never enough evidence. You offer atheists books and articles to read but they rarely ever read them and if they do, they never offer an open mind. The information is always prejudged.

To find an open-minded atheist is a rare thing indeed.

I have learnt from experience that arguing with atheists is a complete waste of time and energy. It may be a good opportunity to release and express one's repressed anger and frustration but I can always kick my cat (god forbid!)

So, I wish you every good luck with your atheistic beliefs. I hope they bring you fulfillment and satisfaction. But just one thing... When you die, you're in for one BIG SURPRISE! :o)

[Radarlove]

Winter wind,

"You give, not decisive evidence, but circumstantial that doesn't stand up to review. I'm not saying the conclusion is wrong, but the scientific data isn't wonderful. It's not fool proof. Most importantly, it's not decisive."

There can never be absolute, sufficient, decisive proof of an afterlife until you have experienced dying yourself.

Therefore, I would suggest, the next logical step would be to meet people who have experienced an NDE or who regularly have OOBEs. Talk to them; learn about their experiences; and then make an intuitive yet rational decision on how genuine, how real they are.

I have been very impressed with those I have spoken to over the years. It can be a transforming experience. People's lives often change quite dramatically for the better. Certainly, for me, this was an important step on my own particular journey.

[Maryjane]

So, I wish you every good luck with your atheistic beliefs. I hope they bring you fulfillment and satisfaction. But just one thing... When you die, you're in for one BIG SURPRISE! :o)

That always makes me laugh!
I don't agree with you..Now GO TO HELL!

[Winter wind]

Quote by: Radarlove Therefore, I would suggest, the next logical step would be to meet people who have experienced an NDE or who regularly have OOBEs. Talk to them; learn about their experiences; and then make an intuitive yet rational decision on how genuine, how real they are.

I donno. Eyewitness accounts are notoriously dodgy. I mean, people could present evidence like this against witches in court. People very convinced they had nightmares where the witch had done all sorts of nasty things to them. After the 9/11 attacks people thought army planes or helicopters had flown into the buildings. Some said missiles, others even said space alien death ray.

Eyewitness isn't enough to convince me scientifically (being a Christian on the other hand...)

[Maryjane]

I agree WW.
I've talked to numerous people who lost loved ones. One swears that sparks in her bed are her dead husband's spirit.
It's nothing more than static cling. When it comes to death and the afterlife...people will believe what they want to believe. It's comforting to think the dead are still with you.
(unless you caused their death)

[Jack]

Ho hum, a typical atheistic comment. :o) Atheism is yet another religion. As extreme and blinkered as Christian or Islamic fundamentalism. You offer Atheists evidence for an afterlife but it's never enough evidence. You offer atheists books and articles to read but they rarely ever read them and if they do, they never offer an open mind. The information is always prejudged. To find an open-minded atheist is a rare thing indeed. I have learnt from experience that arguing with atheists is a complete waste of time and energy.

Anyone who believes in something that is untestable, based on second-hand evidence, unverifiable, unable to be replicated and suggesting a fact that cannot be properly and skeptically examined has to offer evidence that cannot be refuted or explained in simpler, more natural ways. When those people fail to establish their case beyond a reasonable doubt, they resort to insulting their critics.

Unless you can suggest the mechanism for a dead body to experience anything after death, your premise is no better than the theist's suppositions of an afterlife. It's all based on wishful thinking and the failure to consider other, more plausible explanations for the perceived experiences.

I will keep an open mind until I can be convinced beyond a doubt that what these people claim is possible. Until then it's just another hypothesis without substantial evidence.

[Kakumei]

I guess Ill make this short. I studied up on one of Einstiens quotes. He basically said that everything in out body creates and emits energy, but he also concluded that energy does not cease in most cases, and that it just changes forms, he believed that when the body stopped emiting energy, that the sources of that energy left the body and became something else. I think thats the best way I can explain it, so if you think of it like that, sure, I believe in an after life.

[Radarlove]

Oh dear, I see I have attracted the atheists and sceptics to my door. :o)

I am not here to have a spat. You have your views, I have mine. I am delighted for you if your atheistic beliefs give you comfort and contentment.

I have spent 25 years researching the afterlife subject with an open mind. I have spoken to numerous people who have experienced NDEs and OOBEs; read many books and articles on the subject; attended conferences and lectures; clairvoyant meetings and seances; worked closely on a one-to-one basis with a number of channellers and mediums.

I have listened to scientists refuting the afterlife evidence; have heard the arguments put forward by atheists and agnostics. And you know what? After all that exploration. After all that hard work, I finally made a rational, reasoned decision based on the large amount of evidence I had accrued.

There is an afterlife. It has nothing to do with religious faith. It has little to do with a God. And I am very happy and comfortable with my viewpoint.

And when the time arrives, I look forward to passing over into another dimension of time and space and starting my non-physical second life.

[Maryjane]

I am not here to have a spat. You have your views, I have mine. I am delighted for you if your atheistic beliefs give you comfort and contentment.

Just so you know...WW is a very nice christian.


So what's this big surprise we are in for when we die? Can we flick on light switches? Make it snow? Play a special song on the radio? Can we communicate with the living?

[Reflechir]

You forgot the old "cell phone turning on by itself" trick maryjane....lol

I'm not sure what I believe anymore, but I sure would like to believe there is some place better.

[Morality Games]

Quote by: Radarlove Oh dear, I see I have attracted the atheists and sceptics to my door. :o) I am not here to have a spat. You have your views, I have mine. I am delighted for you if your atheistic beliefs give you comfort and contentment. I have spent 25 years researching the afterlife subject with an open mind. I have spoken to numerous people who have experienced NDEs and OOBEs; read many books and articles on the subject; attended conferences and lectures; clairvoyant meetings and seances; worked closely on a one-to-one basis with a number of channellers and mediums. I have listened to scientists refuting the afterlife evidence; have heard the arguments put forward by atheists and agnostics. And you know what? After all that exploration. After all that hard work, I finally made a rational, reasoned decision based on the large amount of evidence I had accrued. There is an afterlife. It has nothing to do with religious faith. It has little to do with a God. And I am very happy and comfortable with my viewpoint. And when the time arrives, I look forward to passing over into another dimension of time and space and starting my non-physical second life.

Any fancy can fall under the term 'evidence', but it takes some weighty facts for your idea to pass for something other than the offspring of private desire. There is no reason to assume NDE experiences are non-chemical (physical) in nature, when every other experience can be qualified in that mode (physically).

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Radarlove Zhavric, "You've simply made a claim that is not true." Ho hum, a typical atheistic comment. :o) Atheism is yet another religion. As extreme and blinkered as Christian or Islamic fundamentalism.

It would be so refreshing to meet a theist who can debate beyond a "i kno u r but wut am i" level.

You offer Atheists evidence for an afterlife but it's never enough evidence.

Woah, woah, woah... when did that happen? You claimed there was an afterlife. You didn't offer the slightest bit of evidence. I will not tolerate such boldface lies. You will offer the link / quote to where you offered any such evidence or you'll concede this point. Do so in your next post.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Radarlove There can never be absolute, sufficient, decisive proof of an afterlife until you have experienced dying yourself.

Quote by: Radarlove You offer Atheists evidence for an afterlife but it's never enough evidence.

So, there's no evidence, but you've been (allegedly) showing us evidence? Clearly, you haven't thought your argument through very carefully.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Kakumei I guess Ill make this short. I studied up on one of Einstiens quotes. He basically said that everything in out body creates and emits energy, but he also concluded that energy does not cease in most cases, and that it just changes forms, he believed that when the body stopped emiting energy, that the sources of that energy left the body and became something else. I think thats the best way I can explain it, so if you think of it like that, sure, I believe in an after life.

Wow... just... wow.

That could be the worst interpretation of anything Einstein said that I've ever read. You're going to need to provide these "quotes" you provided. Einstein was a physicist. Not a biologist. You're going to need to support this argument of yours. As of now, all you're doing is taking something WAY out of context.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Radarlove I have listened to scientists refuting the afterlife evidence; have heard the arguments put forward by atheists and agnostics. And you know what? After all that exploration. After all that hard work, I finally made a rational, reasoned decision based on the large amount of evidence I had accrued. There is an afterlife.

I'm saddened that it took you 25 years to reach the wrong conclusion.

[Morality Games]

"blink"

Mental function depends on the chemistry of the nervous system in particular, not energy in general. Energy is just ... according to Einstein ... a really small substance. It plays into the activity of the brain, but it is not the chemical processes which embody our ongoing existence. It just keeps them going.