Is the afterlife even possible?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: Darebirth Any religious out there, please explain to me how an afterlife is even possible if we no longer have any of our senses to expierience this "afterlife" then?

What do you expect us to say Darebirth? You'll have people tell you it's the soul, and you'll have people tell you it just is. The honest answer, is that since none us have died, we don't know the logistics of death. My bet's on the idea that our conscious takes another form separate from our bodies, but that's just a hypothesis.

[Piscean]

Your brain gives your body sight, touch, etc. That's it. The part of you that lives on expiriences these things in a different way. Or if you believe your only chemicals and tissue etc. then obviously you can't believe in an afterlife or continued life as I call it.

[Piscean]

I know many wont believe me but I have died for a matter of minutes and I have existed outside my body. This expirience makes my life very different from most. I don't see life the way most people do at all and I have no way to doubt that we live on. This body is for a temporary expirience. Develope charactor while you are here, it's what your gonna take with you.

[Radarlove]

Darebirth,

I have spent 25 years researching the ultimate question, "Is there a life after death?" I can say, with hand on heart, after exhaustive research, that there is. BUT, it has little or nothing to do with religious belief or faith.

The first all-important controversy to clear up is this. Religion states that the brain and consciousness are separate. Science states that the brain and consciousness are one and the same.

All the evidence that I have uncovered shows that science is incorrect and religion is correct. That the brain and consciousness are separate. When the brain dies, human consciousness continues living. Hence, religion calls this consciousness the soul, the spirit etc..

To gain this conclusion, I have researched the Near Death Experience (NDE) and spoken to many different people who have experienced leaving their physical body and moving into other dimensions of time and space. Science crudely dismisses this as a delusion or hallucination caused by lack of oxygen to the brain. This is not the case, in my view. It is only when you research the subject in depth, that you realise just how wrong science is.

I have also spoken to those who meditate. It is through practicing meditation that you can realise, at first-hand, that the consciousness and brain are separate from each other.

Other areas of merit include those people who claim they can leave their physical bodies at will and travel the varied number of different dimensions in time and space. These people are called astral travellers or out of body experiencers.

I am confident that within 50 years science will prove that there is a life after death. Already, the groundbreaking formulae of Hugh Everett proposing parallel universes are now being taken more seriously and along with a better understanding of string theory, I reckon, science will need to finally hold its hand up and say, "Sorry, we were wrong. There is a life after death."

Once this occurs then the whole subject becomes very exciting. My research shows that the true afterlife has little or nothing to do with religious faith or beliefs. Quite frankly their views are puerile and an embarrassment to both human intellect and reason.

In my view, there may come a time when mankind will completely accept there is a life after death; will have a good grasp of what it is and what occurs there; BUT, there will be no need to hold a religious belief or faith to experience it. To repeat, the actual next life we live after our physical one has nothing to do with religious faith whatsoever.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Darebirth Is the afterlife even possible ?

Yes.
It may not necessarily resemble in a form and/or shape a person appears as a living tissue and/or organism (what we call and/or recognise it as "Life").

Atoms released from a person's body after that individual dies, are getting into interactions with other atoms - within the Universe we live-in - and create a new state, substance, fabric, configuration, array, etc.

What exactly happens to those (released) atoms ? and/or how that process takes place ?
No idea.
(When I die, I promise I will send you an e-mail with detailed report, guys :-) )

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Darebirth But when you die, these things are taken away from you. You brain dies, which essentially kills everything in your whole body.

Imagine a stand alone computer that's never been hooked up to the internet. Imagine saving a bunch of files to the hard drive. Now imagine turning the computer off, physically removing the hard drive, and melting it into a puddle.

Given this context is it possible for the data saved on that computer to still exist?

If you answered anything other than "no" then you're wrong. It's gone. Goodbye. So long. It doesn't exist anymore.

Same thing with the brain and you. The brain is you. It's the hardware that runs the software that is your personality. So, it's not possible for there to be an afterlife. It's a dreamthat human beings invented. Wishful thinking. A pretty little lie to mitigate the fact that we know we'll one day die, yet have an incredibly powerful survival instinct.

[Radarlove]

Rainbow,

My research suggests that the consciousness which continues on after death is similar looking to the physical body. Spiritual people often call this the etheric. One analogy would be, it's like taking off your shirt where below lyes the vest. Simply, the consciousness takes on the form and shape of what it already knows and understands.

Disabilities are purely physical, so in your etheric body an amputated limb, for example, is replaced by a healthy one. If you are blind, you can see again. If deaf, you can now hear and so on. In a sense, you experience a fresh and healthy start. A new life - a new beginning.

But, you take with you all your belief systems, habits and nuances gained from the physical. Little changes here, so the personality remains the same. Obviously, one's fear of death ends, so this can have a positive affect on the person's overall demeanour.

As to this next dimension in time and space, the evidence suggests it is quite similar to the physical world. In other ways it is very different. Along with a new set of natural laws and science, the person can take a while to adjust to their new environment.

At first, they will play out the secure beliefs and forms they already know. But as they become more accustomed and confident of their surroundings, so the individual will expand and experience new things.

As to where they find themselves in this next dimension is very much governed by who they are. One natural law is 'like attracts like'. So, the thief, for example, will find himself living in an area surrounded by other criminals. A hateful and deceitful person will be among similar types and so on. On the other hand, a kind, loving, caring person will attract those too. So, the Eastern philosophy of Karma appears correct. The more you work on yourself here, the better your next life will be. The religious belief in heaven and hell as actual places is utter tosh. Heaven and hell are states of mind which are re-enacted out as expressions of your beliefs after passing over. Enough said, as it is such a huge subject.

Obviously, these are my interpretations based on the evidence I've gained.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Radarlove My research suggests that the consciousness which continues on after death is similar looking to the physical body. Spiritual people often call this the etheric.

What do you mean by " research" ?
Can you provide some extra info, please ?

[davedes]

Quote by: Radarlove the consciousness which continues on after death is similar looking to the physical body.

From my understanding, the "physical environment" that we interpret while out-of-body can change based on our own expectations. William Buhlman experiments with this in his book Adventures Beyond the Body. Monroe also touches on this in his first book, Journeys Out of the Body.

I too would like to see this research, though.

[Radarlove]

Rainbow,

Thank you for asking the question.

My research began with books and articles. There are countless books published on the life after death subject. Some are badly written and researched. There are probably only around 40% worth reading. A good place to start are those on the Near Death Experience (NDE). Avoid those which have been written by religious people as the experiences are already tainted by their belief.

Once sufficient knowledge is gained of the subject, I find meeting and talking to people who have actually experienced an NDE is important. Hundreds of thousands around the world, perhaps millions, have had an NDE. Many are embarrassed to discuss the subject in case of ridicule, so discovering the right person is essential.

The length of experience also varies, so finding someone who was proven to be clinically dead offers credence. You will find the vast majority of these people will undergo a positive transformation afterwards. Their fear of death goes and this, in itself, gives a new purpose to their lives. One lady I interviewed told me, "I hope I don't sound smug, but dying has been the happiest experience of my life!" This was someone who had died four different times while undergoing several operations - deaths which had been medically proven by the surgeons involved.

Anyway, just a few suggestions.

[Radarlove]

davedes,

I found the Monroe trilogy of books quite mind-blowing. They greatly helped me to understand other dimensions in time and space. Have you attended the Monroe Institute? Also, his former pupil, Bruce Moen, whose books are wonderfully enlightening.

"Simply, the consciousness takes on the form and shape of what it already knows and understands."

My understanding is that the vast majority of people will initially take on the physical body shape after passing over. But as the person evolves in this next dimension, he/she realises that a body is not necessary and will eventually discard the humanoid shape and move into other forms - often an orb or spark of light. Robert Monroe mentions this in his second book "Far Journeys".

[davedes]

I've only recently gotten into the subject of NDE/OBEs. It's a truly fascinating subject, and I hope to have my own OBE in due time.

I haven't visited the Monroe Institute. I've still got a lot more reading and research to do before that point.

[Radarlove]

davedes,

Take this journey of discovery step by step. Never push the process of expanding your consciousness too hard. It can bite back! :o)

Like you, I found the whole area of NDE/OBEs quite amazing. Monroe's "Far Journeys" has been a very important book in my life.

Over the last 6 years, I've been exploring "channelling". I have worked very closely with a channeller whom I accept is genuine. The knowledge I have gained about other dimensions in time and space, via this form of communication, has been quite astonishing.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Radarlove My research began with books and articles. There are countless books published on the life after death subject. Some are badly written and researched. There are probably only around 40% worth reading. A good place to start are those on the Near Death Experience (NDE). Avoid those which have been written by religious people as the experiences are already tainted by their belief. Once sufficient knowledge is gained of the subject, I find meeting and talking to people who have actually experienced an NDE is important. Hundreds of thousands around the world, perhaps millions, have had an NDE. Many are embarrassed to discuss the subject in case of ridicule, so discovering the right person is essential. The length of experience also varies, so finding someone who was proven to be clinically dead offers credence. You will find the vast majority of these people will undergo a positive transformation afterwards. Their fear of death goes and this, in itself, gives a new purpose to their lives. One lady I interviewed told me, "I hope I don't sound smug, but dying has been the happiest experience of my life!" This was someone who had died four different times while undergoing several operations - deaths which had been medically proven by the surgeons involved. Anyway, just a few suggestions.

NDE (Near Death Experience) is unknown event in life. It could be related to unusual brain's activity. It could be that a person enters a completely different environment.
I have no opinion on that subject, since it may indicate one or both states.

I had a conversation with an individual, who experienced NDE twice. That individual described both events with details, including (beyond understanding) environment that individual entered, as well as presence of an entity that individual was in touch with and/or felt a presence of, all the time.
In short : a very weird story.

[WakeTFU]

Quote by: Darebirth Before I ask the main question of this topic, I should explain exactly what "life" is. Life is our own existence based on our natural means of observation, or our five senses. Sight: We can use our eyes to intake light from the objects around us. We can observe the world around us by seeing these objects.Your brain will then perceive this image. Hearing: We can use our ears to pick up sound waves. We know that hearing is also controlled by our brain, because certain noises can directly effect our brain. Touch: The nerves in your skin, all part of the nervous system, all link up to your spine which links to your brain. Your brain sends sensations to a spot on your body when it comes in contact with something. Smell: We can observe the world around us by the aromas that certain objects send off. We know that smell has its roots in our brains, because certain smells can effect our brains directly. Taste: From the tastebuds on our tounges, we can taste food. While it would seem somewhat useless, it is still a way to observe the world. Taste is controlled by our brain because certain foods or liquids can directly effect our brain. Without these five senses, there really is no way to be sure if you are or aren't alive. All of these senses can be explained physically, through your eyes, ears, skin, nose, tounge, and ultimatly your brain. But when you die, these things are taken away from you. You brain dies, which essentially kills everything in your whole body. Your blood stops, your nervous system dies, and eventually all of your senses are gone because your brain can no longer uphold them. Any religious out there, please explain to me how an afterlife is even possible if we no longer have any of our senses to expierience this "afterlife" then?

I'm not religious, but consciousness doesn't die.

[Radarlove]

Rainbow,

"It could be related to unusual brain's activity."

Science uses this notion to counteract the truth of the NDE, in my view. And on the surface, 'unusual brain activity' sounds a feasible suggestion. BUT when you have studied the subject in depth and read the many first hand accounts of people's experiences, there are some NDE cases which simply cannot be brushed aside with this viewpoint.

For example, when a person finds himself floating above their physical body during an operation; when they can see and hear what is going on around them; listen in to conversations between the surgeon and nurses etc.. while they are out for the count... then it becomes interesting because you have some tangible proof to work with.

One typical case I came across was where a woman was pronounced dead on the operating table. This lady said she floated through the theatre wall and found herself above the roof of the hospital looking down. She noted in a corner gutter section an old plimsoll lying there. It had a red stripe down the side and a hole at the end where the big toe would be. She was then revived by the doctors. Her next memory was waking up in a hospital bed.

The following day she managed to persuade a nurse to look for this plimsoll. No-one was aware it lay there. It could not be seen from any of the hospital windows. Sure enough, after much huffing and puffing; when the hospital handyman was called and a ladder was used to reach this desolate gutter section, they found a plimsoll exactly as described by the woman. There are many similar cases.

When science is faced with this type of evidence, they have great difficulty explaining it away, so their usual pat answer is, "The brain is very complex and it will take us another 50 to 100 years to understand it." Thus giving themselves more time to remain in denial.

The NDE and the OOBE are exactly the same experience. The only difference is that with an NDE the person has no control over it. With the OOBE, after some practise, the person can have control.

[Radarlove]

Wake TFU,

"I'm not religious, but consciousness doesn't die."

It is taking religion away from the view that there 'is' an afterlife. That is the real challenge.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: WakeTFU I'm not religious, but consciousness doesn't die.

Yes. Yes it does. I know most people don't want it to die, but want doesn't make for much of an argument. Should I bother asking you to prove what you stated?

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Radarlove Science uses this notion to counteract the truth of the NDE, in my view. And on the surface, 'unusual brain activity' sounds a feasible suggestion. BUT when you have studied the subject in depth and read the many first hand accounts of people's experiences, there are some NDE cases which simply cannot be brushed aside with this viewpoint.

No. No there aren't. Not one. Still waiting for evidence that proves the alleged visions of an NDE took place during the time when a person was dead and not when they were unconscious, but alive. Got any?

[Radarlove]

Zhavric,

Are you one of Dawkin's rottweilers?

I have discussed the afterlife with various atheists over the years. Overall, I have found them to be blinkered, extreme, predictable and often quite tedious with their insipid argument.

Atheists are so wound up about religion and God that the realisation there may be an afterlife without a required religious faith attached completely throws them.

I am not religious. I don't believe in God. Yet, I whole-heartedly accept there is an afterlife. Surely, therefore, I should be an atheist?