christianity vs. Aethism

[christianmathew]

well, maybe one little debate or two.

There is a fight raging between Christianity and Atheism however. Christianity is beginning to decline. 65% of Europeans are already Atheists.

THat still leaves approx. 2 billion followers, and Christianity is still the world's largest religion, contrary to popular opinion.

Doesn't God seem like a selfish, spoiled little child for demanding complete and blind loyalty? Especially considering all the evidence he put out to contradict his own existence?

That is one of those big questions, isn't it? It, at least in my opinion, doesn't make him seem like a child but more like a "wiser than you can imagine old man".

He demands complete loyalty, yet he gives us free will, instead of just creating us without it. That way he knows we are truly loyal and devoted and loving, because we have the choice.

Since there is free will, many people have chosen to reject him, and to make themselves feel better, they make up evidence to support themselves. Think about the big bang theory. Are you really going to believe that a grain of sand (which no one can explain how it got there) exploded, and we are just some cosmic anomaly? Or how about another crazy religion, Scientology. We are the decsendents of aliens which dropped an egg into a volcano. Yeah, that's logical. People are just trying to find evidence that seems true, but really isn't. God didn't create false evidence, man did.

[christianmathew]

Oh yeah Tycoon,
You go ahead and believe that hell doesn't exist. when you are stuck in Hell for eternity, the land of never ending pain and death, don't come crying to me. If you want to risk something that serious, that's your choice. I personally will take my chances with christianity. (besides the fact that I know it to be true).

[Matt W]

Don't preach at other members or threaten them with Hell. Either you want to debate, or preach. Which is it? Choose carefully.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[Tycoon]

THat still leaves approx. 2 billion followers, and Christianity is still the world's largest religion, contrary to popular opinion.

Like I said, beginning to decline.

That is one of those big questions, isn't it? It, at least in my opinion, doesn't make him seem like a child but more like a "wiser than you can imagine old man". He demands complete loyalty, yet he gives us free will, instead of just creating us without it. That way he knows we are truly loyal and devoted and loving, because we have the choice. Since there is free will, many people have chosen to reject him, and to make themselves feel better, they make up evidence to support themselves. Think about the big bang theory. Are you really going to believe that a grain of sand (which no one can explain how it got there) exploded, and we are just some cosmic anomaly? Or how about another crazy religion, Scientology. We are the decsendents of aliens which dropped an egg into a volcano. Yeah, that's logical. People are just trying to find evidence that seems true, but really isn't. God didn't create false evidence, man did.

Man didn't create false evidence, man found the evidence against God's existence. I'm not saying I support anything stupid like scientology, but the simple truth is our existence is a complete coincidence.

You go ahead and believe that hell doesn't exist. when you are stuck in Hell for eternity, the land of never ending pain and death, don't come crying to me. If you want to risk something that serious, that's your choice. I personally will take my chances with christianity. (besides the fact that I know it to be true).

What Matt said. Besides, you bring up the fact that a good number of Christians are simply rolling the dice, betting that God and hell do exist because they think if they don't they think they have a lot to lose.

[christianmathew]

You asked for opinion and you got mine. I don't think atheism and christianity can coexist harmoniously on earth, when christians think they have this "truth" that other non-christians and non-believers do not have.

Other non-christians and non-believers choose to not believe in christianity. They choose not to believe in the christian trulth. Any non believer can get this truth, all they have to do is believe in God. I will tell you this truth if you want me to, complete with scripture.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: christianmathew Other non-christians and non-believers choose to not believe in christianity. They choose not to believe in the christian trulth. Any non believer can get this truth, all they have to do is believe in God. I will tell you this truth if you want me to, complete with scripture.

How do I believe in something that there is no evidence for? Am I being that demanding?

I don't believe in god. Not yours or anyone's. I don't think christianity has a special truth. I don't think morals are divine and absolute. You can quote scripture if you like.

I would like to ask if you believe in the inerrancy of the bible; a talking serpent, a global flood, asexual reproduction, and that we are all the incestuous descendants of Adam and Eve.

[christianmathew]

If you don't believe in something there is no evidence for, that is your perogative. You are ot being demanding, you are just trying to think with your head and not your heart.

If you don't believe in something, that's your choice.

And finally, I do believe in every single word the bible has. Down to the letter. Every story and every single thing people have called inconsistencies before.

But now I'm going to leave, or at least stop debating and simply observe. I seem to have gotten on the bad side of the moderator MattW. Adios!

[Voluntary]

Quote by: christianmathew If you don't believe in something there is no evidence for, that is your perogative. You are ot being demanding, you are just trying to think with your head and not your heart.

I am using reason. If god exists, then god gave me reason. I have reason to believe that he does not exist.

[WakeTFU]

Quote by: Voluntary I am using reason. If god exists, then god gave me reason. I have reason to believe that he does not exist.

I am sure you have reason to believe he exists, as well.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: WakeTFU I am sure you have reason to believe he exists, as well.

Show me the evidence.

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: Voluntary You asked for an opinion and you got mine. I don't think atheism and christianity can coexist harmoniously on earth, when christians think they have this "truth" that other non-christians and non-believers do not have.

I think this is accurate. I think the *best* one can hope for is a relatively uneasy truce, but there will *always* be underlying tension.

[gela]

Christanity is a good thing.

So long as it stays out of politics and laws.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: christianmathew But I was wondering what other people thought about christianity vs. aethism. Post, write what you want, whatever. I just want to hear your opinions.

No, you don't... you came here to evangelize. Hardly the Christian thing to do, mathew... start off a new thread with a lie.

Quote by: tommy If God can create the universe, he can falsify the evidence.

LOL! Good lord, Tommy... WHY? God gives humans the mind to compile evidence and follow where it leads, only to fool us by planting false evidence?

Oh well, I always thought that if God existed, He had to be a real practical joker.

Quote by: christianmathew Yes, I am very comfortable with that idea. Every human being was given a chance to turn to God, so if they didn't do so, they are choosing to go to hell.

So here it is... the ultimatum.

Mathew, I have a little test I'd like you to take, but before I get to that, let me ask you. Is God the creator of all things, all knowing and all powerful? Is everything that happens in the universe the will of God? And if so, isn't every choice we make also God's will? Therefore it obviously can't be our will, now, can it?

Nah... I don't believe in God and I'm not going to Hell. Hey, God works in mysterious ways, right? If you believe in Hell, you're welcome to it.

Now for your quiz...

"One beautiful, sunny day, a sweet, innocent 13 yr-old girl was making her way home through the streets of Bangkok, Thailand. She was a very bright, precocious young girl, a good student, an obedient and loving daughter, who gave of her time doing volunteer charity work. And she was a devout Buddhist, the religion of her parents and their parents, and her peers and community.

As she's walking home, she comes across a Christian missionary who's holding forth before a small crowd, explaining the basics of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Being bright and curious, the young girl stops and listens intently. After an hour or so, she mulls over what she's heard and decides to continue to believe devoutly in her own faith and that of her family. Satisfied and happy, she turns to continue her walk home, stepping into the street, where she is hit by a careening, runaway bus and killed instantly.

So... is she going to Hell?"

Quote by: christianmathew And finally, I do believe in every single word the bible has. Down to the letter.

Really? That's interesting, because right off the bat, in Genesis, God creates day and night. Then, three days later, He creates the Sun. It's interesting because every third grader understands that the definitions of day and night depend on which part of the earth is facing the sun.

So having day and night before having a sun not only defies the laws of physics, it defies the laws of language, and THAT'S a neat trick! Yep, God definitely works in mysterious ways.

Quote by: christianmathew If you don't believe in something there is no evidence for, that is your perogative. You are not being demanding, you are just trying to think with your head and not your heart.

Actually I'm thinking with both. When I was 18, I asked Jesus to come into my life. For the next three months or so I read the Bible and really tried hard...

But in the end, it wasn't my head that told me I wasn't buying it, it was my heart. It was during the next 40 years that my head tried to figure out what my heart was telling me, and what, if I didn't believe in God, I did believe in.

I've pretty well figured it out, thanks.

.

[Jack]

you are just trying to think with your head and not your heart.

If someone thinks with their heart they have been grossly misconfigured. Even in poetic language, you feel with your heart, not think with it. Your brain is meant for thinking; I wish more people used it for that.

[Walrus]

Quote by: christianmathew Walrus, christianity and aethism can coexist, its just that they don't. As religions, it is possible for both two exist on earth. But the idea of Christianity directly opposes Aethism, and vice versa.

Firstly, I would like to say that atheism isn’t a religion, as unlike religion there is no atheist doctrine or creed, so if I speak as an atheist I represent no one but myself and whilst there may be atheists who feel antipathy towards religious belief, I am not one of them.

Some people have beliefs, these beliefs give value to their lives and providing those beliefs don’t hurt anyone, then I feel they are fully entitled to hold them. However, religion as defined by the major creed religions of Christianity and Islam, is overtly political and as a political instrument has been used to oppress, not only non believers but also those whose religious beliefs may be considered heresy, which is why I feel religion must never be placed beyond criticism any more than any secular political doctrine.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: butterbut Just becuase I can't prove it to you doesn't mean its not evidence.

Actually, that's exactly what it means. Evidence and proof should be universal. Furthermore, what's far more likely, is that you've been conditioned to view specific feelings as being "divine" in orgin. That conditioning just means that you want certain events and emotions to be evidence of god. That doesn't make them evidence.

You say I'm asinging "mythological motives" to positive things but it goes a lot deeper then that.

No. No it doesn't. It's pretty cut and dry. You have no evidence. You want there to be a god. You're using a bogus set of logical rules that says certain emotions count as "evidence" which is retarded. You wouldn't accept me stating "The way I feel when I have diarhea proves that there's a devil." Why should I accept the same from you?

He's given meaning to my life that you could never imagine.

No. You've assigned meaning based on what you've been indoctrinated to believe.

If you only knew the Jesus I know.

Yes, I'm sure; the cosmic self-fathering jewish zombie who you telepathically submit to on a daily basis. Makes perfect sense.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: christianmathew And finally, I do believe in every single word the bible has. Down to the letter.

Well, obviously that's not true.

There are plenty of idiocies in the OT that Jesus never overturns that no well adjusted Westerner (American, Aussie, etc.) could follow without being arrested or put in a nut house.

Furthermore, there's just no way you can take the first chapter of Genesis seriously. That silly creation myth that projects the world's age at 6000 years old has been debunked for decades if not longer. Please tell me you're not a young earth creationist.

[Winter wind]

now I've got to go to monty carlo, I've got to find this man!

I'm right now working as a spotlight techy with too much money on his hands for our production of "Lucky stiff"

Quote by: zhavric Yes, I'm sure; the cosmic self-fathering jewish zombie who you telepathically submit to on a daily basis. Makes perfect sense.

Well put.

Furthermore, there's just no way you can take the first chapter of Genesis seriously. That silly creation myth that projects the world's age at 6000 years old has been debunked for decades if not longer. Please tell me you're not a young earth creationist.

The Bible didn't create the young earth theory, humans did.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Winter wind The Bible didn't create the young earth theory, humans did.

Well, considering the bible was completely the invention of bronze age sociopaths, it doesn't really matter.

[Morality Games]

If there is a God, in the Christian sense at least, then it makes sense for the Earth to have been created 7000 years ago-ish. If God can create the universe, he can falsify the evidence.

It contradicts biblical (at least New Testament) thematics that God would be that deceptive. 'Retaining silence' and 'falsifying evidence' are two entirely different processes, the former can be interpreted as 'noble' in a sense (certainly, I enjoy retaining my silence in some circumstances), whereas the latter is an open display of sneakiness and dishonesty.

Moreover, there is really no basis for that kind of belief, that is, no reason to assume it is true except because you want it to be. I could claim God sent Jesus to test the Jews and throw them off the trail (something very in keeping with the thematics of Old Testament), and I would have just as much justification for the idea as you would for this one (maybe a little more, actually).