Christian Prudes

[Anmon]

Quote by: gela As halo pointed out I had already posted it by the time you had accused my of lieing. I even have a scanned page of the circumsision quote. Enough proof for you?

You presented a paragraph from one page of a fifty year old book which recommended circumcision for women if there are some medical problems from too much masturbation(which I admit is silly).

So can you now try to explain how this is any proof of any wide spread modern Christian practices of female circumcison as you presented before, with the words 'must be a serious Christian issue?'

Your original post

I read a book, writen by some christian guy. He said that masturbation is wrong, because it trivialises our sacred organs that are there to increase intamacy between a husband and a wife. By masturbating, you are using your sacred organs for your own shallow indulgance. This christian guy circumsised girls to stop them masturbating. It must be a serious christian issue.

What was actually in the book itself -

"There is an anatomical factor that sometimes causes irritation about the clitoris and thus encourages a manipulation of the delicate reproductive organs.
Although such cases are not very common, evidence of irritation of these tissues is sufficient reason for a young woman to consult a Christian physician.
Often times the remedy for this situation consists of a minor surgical operation known as a circumcision."

So basically you pulled out an old 1950's morals guide for women, and presented it as evidence of some supposed wide spread practice(in your original post) of possible Christian circumcision of women.

Your own words 'must be a serious Christian issue' have hung you by your own petard.

This is not a common religious practice, or a serious issue with Christians, now or ever.
You may of course have us confused with some sects of Muslims.


'must have been done by some Christian guy'

Yes it was-

In the evidence you provided, it was not performed by a priest, it was done by a physician, admittedly a Christian one.
But theres no law against a physician being a Christian is there.

Care to retract now?

[wyoguy]

Quote by: Isherwood I just love how the Bible has an escape clause to excuse believers any time they get challenged with hard questions.

Aye, and I've posed some hard questions myself that I have yet to see any reply to other than the usual anti-Christian drivel. For that matter, I've yet to hear back from the original poster thanking me for clearly and concisely answering his question. Could it be that he didn't really want an answer in the first place?

Look Ish... I can no more abandon my faith than you can give up your attachment to post-modern materialistic atheism. Just between you, me and everyone else that reads this, there's a lot of things in the bible that I wish weren't there. Especially the stuff connected with this thread. I'm not, by nature, a sexually moral man. These issues are really tough for me. I've made a number of homosexual friends throughout my time on this Earth and I'm not one to turn my back on them just because of their sexual orientation, but at the same time, I can't ignore that God has severely denounced their practice. My own love-life has been less than sterling in the past (two failed marriages and a host of concubines) and now I live a life of celebacy with no relief in sight. But when this thing (religion) entered my heart and my head, I had to accept the stuff I did like along with the stuff I didn't. I have a strong background in science (astronomy/anthropology) but I can't honestly say that the Genesis account is not but myth.

My point: I can't un-know what I now know. Folks can (and do) try to kick my faith out from under me all the time but they never seem to realize how precariously perched they are themselves.

[Tycoon]

Look Ish... I can no more abandon my faith than you can give up your attachment to post-modern materialistic atheism.

Because you were born and raised Christian, no doubt.

These issues are really tough for me. I've made a number of homosexual friends throughout my time on this Earth and I'm not one to turn my back on them just because of their sexual orientation, but at the same time, I can't ignore that God has severely denounced their practice.

So your good conscience tells you that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and you even make friends with a few homosexuals... yet you continue to believe in God's unquestionable moral authority? Next time you see one of your homosexual friends remind them that your religion condemns them to eternal suffering.

[gela]

Quote by: Anmon So basically you pulled out an old 1950's morals guide for women, and presented it as evidence as if some wide spread practice(in your original post) of possible Christian circumcision of women.

I don't think I gave the impression that it was wide spread.
I gave the impression that it was deemed necessary by a christian - because of christian values.

I said I read it in one book. I didn't say it was wide spread, or that christians believe in circumsising girls.

As a christian, you should take it seriously if people are doing such things in the name of your religion.

Like I said before. Defend your religion, don't attack me.

Quote by: Anmon Your own words 'must be a serious Christian issue' have hung you by your own petard.

When I said 'serious christian issue' I was reffering to masturbation. Not female circumsision.

Quote by: Me This christian guy circumsised girls to stop them masturbating. It must be a serious christian issue.

Masturbation must be considered to be pretty serious if christians are willing to circumsise girls over it.
Thats what I was trying to say. I quoted your post about masturbation - my post was about masturbation in the eyes of god - it wasn't about female circumsision at all.

[Jack]

I can't un-know what I now know. Folks can (and do) try to kick my faith out from under me all the time but they never seem to realize how precariously perched they are themselves.

I agree you can't "un-know" something. I just hope you get to know it so well that you can move past it. As I've tried to tell others, no one can kick faith out from under you. You have to do that yourself. You didn't believe in gods until you convinced yourself. It's the same with disbelieving in them. You need to reach that realization for yourself.

[gela]

I can no more abandon my faith than you can give up your attachment to post-modern materialistic atheism. Just between you, me and everyone else that reads this, there's a lot of things in the bible that I wish weren't there.

I never ask christians to abandon their faith in God.
I ask christians to abandon their faith in the bible.
It was written by humans. It is imperfect.
If you have a problem with whats in the bible, then there is no reason that you should continue to follow it.
God gave you free will for a reason.

[Maryjane]

Sheesh...I go away for a few hours and this thing is three pages long!
I'll make it easy on myself, screw the quotey thing. All my repiles are to Anmon and I suppose I shouldn't worry about this being off topic? I see that train jumped the tracks a few pages ago.

(Gela...I'll get to you in a minute. You have come close to answering my question. WB BTW).

@Anmon:

You said you talk about it all the time, that's repeating.

I'm trying hard to take you serious. Are you imagining us discussing dark and dreary things 24/7? Only around Halloween as to what neat and unusual dark things will make my haunted house cooler to snot nosed 5th graders.

You act like my kids are supposed to be cowered up in the fetal position worried their dad is in a grave rotting and I have to reassure them all the time. We just accept he's dead, corpses rot, believe it our not....even christian ones! My husband chose to be buried.<shrug> My kids learned about decomposition 101 in kindergarten. (Halloween pumpkin left outside in the elements) I know what happens to a corpse. For someone who talks smack a lot, why the sudden change when it comes to real death?

Anywho, I don't get why that's so hard to understand? We don't believe in an after life so what's to discuss? That sitting at the foot of the lord is your way of thinking.

So what's really bugging you? Is it such a hard concept for people of "faith" to understand that good, upstanding, moral, non believers accept death as reality? Or is it that we don't buy into this whole everything is a sin crap? Why does being spiritual have to include your god?

Say it isn't so! It can't be done! What is you want me to confess? I can't get out of bed in the morning, I can't function as a human being? That my kids don't do well in school, that they can't hold a job? I have a drinking problem? ( I do, it's coffee! )


When it comes to death, there are already too many questions that can't be answered. Having faith in an after life (for us) just creates more. <shrug> We have enough things to worry about. You know about as much about the afterlife as I do. Zilch! I'm not consumed with the afterlife and death is a huge part of my reality.

What do you live with every day?

I'd explain it to you but it would take too long and I suspect you wouldn't get it anyway.

Your not dead, so how can you say you with that nihilistic concept?

Sorry, not following you? Come again? You don't understand anyone's concept of reality but your own? That's Ok, you don't have to. Yours works for you and that's all that matters.

I think your boys will sometime go the other way, and look for a more positive and rewarding after death concept.

Again you make me laugh.


You would have to know the boys before you could even assume something like that. BTW, professor, did you have a certain time frame in mind? We've been doing this a few years now.

These boys are flesh of my flesh. I have their best interest in mind, not you. They are always free to choose what ever "concept" they wish. (a discussion we've had numerous times) They chose this and if this "concept" ever stops working for them, they are free to choose another.

[Chris]

Quote by: Maryjane Can anyone tell me if I can masturbate or not? Time's waisting!

Nothing mentioned in the bible cause women arent important enough. They should keep quiet in church and any man that touches them while they are having their period, is considered unclean.

Quote by: Anmon And did it ever occur to you, that you atheists mighten have all the answers either? Your kid asks you, what happens when I die, sorry kid you rot! Yeah great inspiring stuff.

As opposed to? Telling them fairy tales? Who cares what happens when you die? Your dead. Why not live this life to the fullest, knowing its the only life you will have? Why waste your precious time here on earth, a blink of a eye in the cosmic timescale, worshiping and praising a god of whom you have no evidence? And more importantly, wasting other people's time. And not to mention indoctrination of innocent children, a technique that took centuries to master.

[Maryjane]

Nothing mentioned in the bible cause women arent important enough. They should keep quiet in church and any man that touches them while they are having their period, is considered unclean.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

That's the answer I was looking for! Meet me in the chat room chris!
CRAP! you are married.

[Jack]

Can anyone tell me if I can masturbate or not? Time's waisting!

Really, you don't need to ask. But as a forum member in good standing, you have Volconvo's permission, if that makes any difference.

[Maryjane]

Heyyyy handsome

Heh..I though that last post was going to get me at least a warning. Good to know!

[Zhavric]

Quote by: wyoguy Matthew 5:27,28 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Thank you for not trying to derail my thread by being a loud mouthed CENSORED. I appreaciate it.

As for your post, I don't buy it. Adultery is sex with someone who's married. One cannot committ adultery with someone who's not married.

Good try. Do you have any others?

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Anmon You presented a paragraph from one page of a fifty year old book which recommended circumcision for women if there are some medical problems from too much masturbation(which I admit is silly). So can you now try to explain how this is any proof of any wide spread modern Christian practices of female circumcison as you presented before, with the words 'must be a serious Christian issue?' Your original post What was actually in the book itself - "There is an anatomical factor that sometimes causes irritation about the clitoris and thus encourages a manipulation of the delicate reproductive organs. Although such cases are not very common, evidence of irritation of these tissues is sufficient reason for a young woman to consult a Christian physician. Often times the remedy for this situation consists of a minor surgical operation known as a circumcision." So basically you pulled out an old 1950's morals guide for women, and presented it as evidence of some supposed wide spread practice(in your original post) of possible Christian circumcision of women. Your own words 'must be a serious Christian issue' have hung you by your own petard. This is not a common religious practice, or a serious issue with Christians, now or ever. You may of course have us confused with some sects of Muslims. 'must have been done by some Christian guy' Yes it was- In the evidence you provided, it was not performed by a priest, it was done by a physician, admittedly a Christian one. But theres no law against a physician being a Christian is there. Care to retract now?

Are you planning on participating in this thread? If you posted a passage from the bible, then link to that post, please. If not, then post the passage you think forbids folling around or find another thread to post in.

Criminy, what is it about volconvo that attracts you people?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: zhavric Are you planning on participating in this thread?

No evidence of it thus far. :p

Can anyone name a specific bible verse that forbids men and women from engaging in non-sexual intamacy? To be more frank, does Jesus ever say you're not allowed to kiss / make out / give orgasms without using genitals / etc?

I don't think the Bible rules against it specifically, so I guess I'm off the hook (yay). But honestly, why does it matter? This crap couldn't be farther then the importent messages Christianity presents.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Winter wind No evidence of it thus far. :p

I said that. not Anom.

[I don't think the Bible rules against it specifically, so I guess I'm off the hook (yay). But honestly, why does it matter? This crap couldn't be farther then the importent messages Christianity presents.[/quote]

Yet, if you talk to most Christian teens, they'll tell you that about all they here is the importance of saving themselves for marriage which somehow translates to anything beyond hand holding is SURE to lead DIRECTLY to sex which is retarded. There's nothing in the bible forbiding people from making out or even giving each other orgasms. This ridiculous prudery. This stupid abstinence, it's not supported anywhere in the bible. It's just part of someone's agenda.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: zhavric I said that. not Anom.

I'm sorry, I should get some sleep.

Yet, if you talk to most Christian teens, they'll tell you that about all they here is the importance of saving themselves for marriage which somehow translates to anything beyond hand holding is SURE to lead DIRECTLY to sex which is retarded.

Most Christian teens don't know what the hell they are talking about...but I hope I have proven I'm not "most Christian teens".

It's just part of someone's agenda.

Someone being protective parents. I don't mind that, I'm just not wild about the idea of using Christianity as a reason, just say "sex leads to pregnancy leads to world of trouble."

[wyoguy]

Quote by: Tycoon Because you were born and raised Christian, no doubt. So your good conscience tells you that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and you even make friends with a few homosexuals... yet you continue to believe in God's unquestionable moral authority? Next time you see one of your homosexual friends remind them that your religion condemns them to eternal suffering.

No, I wasn't. My mom was a Christian, my dad was an atheist. I was allowed to choose for myself. I chose the latter, big time. Truly an atheist's atheist. 90% of the people on this site would have hoisted me up on their shoulders and demanded that I be crowned king of Volconvo.

I do warn my gay friends of the consequences, just as I've warned you, and they listen just as well. What I find suprising is that our friendship hasn't suffered for it. My posisition in their lives isn't to condemn them for their actions but to present a Godly alternative when or if God reveals Himself to them.

[Tycoon]

I do warn my gay friends of the consequences, just as I've warned you, and they listen just as well. What I find suprising is that our friendship hasn't suffered for it. My posisition in their lives isn't to condemn them for their actions but to present a Godly alternative when or if God reveals Himself to them.

Your friends may listen to you, but I certainly know I wouldn't. The idea that homosexual feelings, which come as naturally as heterosexual feelings, should be considered a sin is ridiculous and immoral. Why should we deny that part of our life? And why should we be asked to?

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: Anmon And did it ever occur to you, that you atheists mighten have all the answers either? Your kid asks you, what happens when I die, sorry kid you rot! Yeah great inspiring stuff.

Actually, I think that IS inspiring. It gives you a reason to get off your backside and do something with your life that's meaningful, *now*, rather than your goal being some hypothetical "afterlife".

[Anmon]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 Actually, I think that IS inspiring. It gives you a reason to get off your backside and do something with your life that's meaningful, *now*, rather than your goal being some hypothetical "afterlife".

Of course in your one sided blinkered view of Christians, they don't do anything meaningful in life except pray right?
I guess working in a job and feeding a family isn't meaningful enough for some people.