Some questions for the godless

[Anmon]

These are some deep things I have wondered about before, and it disturbs me just trying to imagine a reasonable answer to them.
Firstly, God apparently he never began, he just always existed, even as a believer that hurts me, because how can something just always exist?
But not to believe it means God had a beginning, which means he must have been created by something else, and what created that etc and so on so which is even less sense that leaves me with either God has always existed, or not at all.
So if he doesn't exist, then what created everything?
And what was around before the universe got created?
Another universe?
And before that one etc and so on.

Now we know the universe is huge, so huge we cant really comprehend how big it actually is.
But say it does have a limit, which logically it should have, then what is past that?

[Donkey Sage]

To be honest, nobody knows how it all began.

The above statement is 100% true. It is impossible, at least for the moment, for human beings to know how the universe came to be. We've got theories, but that's as good as it gets. Those who believe it was created by a God are either lying to themselves, or just very gullible. It is not possible to know what you cannot experience. I've had Christians compare God to the wind. They say, "You cannot see the wind, but it is there." Of course we know the wind is there. We can feel it. If it is hot outside, the breeze feels wonderful on our skin. If we want to fly a kite, the wind carries it to the sky. We can experience wind. How do you experience God?

[Gods_Mercenary]

A christian would say you experience God spiritually.

[JaneDoe321]

Well I am not the designated spokesperson for "the godless". Speaking personally, however, I have no idea "how it all began" and frankly, I don't even care. Maybe if that was the biggest fish I had to fry, I'd spend more time trying to figure it out, or maybe I'd take up knitting, I'm not sure.

The way I see it, however, whatever "it" was, it happened, and we're here, and we need to move forward, not sit on our thumbs and ponder what pushed the "on" button a gazillion (currently) unknowable years ago.

I don't think that points to a sentient "creator" (or series of creators), however.

[Anmon]

Thanks Jane Doe, that was like listening to a chimpanzee trying to explain what television is.
Well done.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary A christian would say you experience God spiritually.

And maybe thats just it, something so advanced its a science beyond our comprehension.

[Donkey Sage]

Quote by: Anmon And maybe thats just it, something so advanced its a science beyond our comprehension.

That's certainly possible. I just happen to be one of those guys that has extreme trouble believing and understanding how other people can believe in something like God.

I'm not saying God doesn't exist.

I'm saying it's impossible to know.

[Anmon]

=Donkey Sage;497617] Those who believe it was created by a God are either lying to themselves, or just very gullible.

Well something must have created it, and what was in place of the space it occupys now?

How do you experience God?

Ive found through nature.

[Anmon]

=Donkey Sage;497630]That's certainly possible. I just happen to be one of those guys that has extreme trouble believing and understanding how other people can believe in something like God.

It could be the best way, it seems the more answers we have, the more questions follow.
We seem through science trying to be on some impossible quest of discovering the answers to everything, and in so creating more problems along the way.

I'm not saying God doesn't exist. I'm saying it's impossible to know.

I prefer to leave the possibility open, as so many people past and present seem convinced it does.

[Donkey Sage]

Quote by: Anmon Well something must have created it, and what was in place of the space it occupys now?

Why is it hard for you to believe that we weren't created? There's plenty of research that's been done on how stars and planets come to be. What makes our sun so special? To be honest, aside from having life, our solar system is pretty average. Are you aware of how miniscule we are in comparison to other things in the universe?
Comparative planetary and stellar sizes

What's so special about us?

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: Anmon Thanks Jane Doe, that was like listening to a chimpanzee trying to explain what television is. Well done.

*hides her chainsaw*

I feel the same way when I hear people start up with the "But where did the universe come from?!?" bit. I don't think we're entitled to all the answers, so I don't feel compelled to come up with *something* to fill in the blank.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Donkey Sage Why is it hard for you to believe that we weren't created?

By what but?

There's plenty of research that's been done on how stars and planets come to be.

Yes, but what set it all off to begin with?
Apparently the Big bang theory is now of thought as just that, a theory, a possibility, not fact like it was taught for years.
And what was around in the present day space the universe occupys presently, before the big bang , if thats what happened to create this universe?
Do you see the conundrum?

What makes our sun so special?

Its our sun.

To be honest, aside from having life, our solar system is pretty average.

OK, if it was so average, we would have discovered thousands of other earth like planets in solar systems through Hubble, but we haven't have we, so maybe our planet, sun and solar system is not so average after all.

Are you aware of how miniscule we are in comparison to other things in the universe?

Yes, but size doesn't exactly necessitate importance.

What's so special about us?

How many other planets have we discovered through Hubble, which has scanned the universe back to roughly 10- 15 billion years ago, have we discovered like earth?

[Anmon]

=JaneDoe321;497636]*hides her chainsaw*

grow up

I feel the same way when I hear people start up with the "But where did the universe come from?!?" bit. I don't think we're entitled to all the answers, so I don't feel compelled to come up with *something* to fill in the blank.

Or maybe you just don't think much.

[another day]

Whatever it was, I see no reason why the theory that a GLORIFIED HUMAN created us holds any water whatsoever and should even be considered. It's an obvious projection of our species onto the metaphysical that is done for the simple reason that we most understand humans over the wind, the rain, the cosmos.

To me it's an abstract force that I think of when people say "god"... the personification of this force into the thinking, emotional, bearded guy named "god" is all just a fiction that helps us relate to something we would otherwise not be able to grasp.

[Anmon]

Quote by: another day Whatever it was, I see no reason why the theory that a GLORIFIED HUMAN created us holds any water whatsoever and should even be considered. It's an obvious projection of our species onto the metaphysical that is done for the simple reason that we most understand humans over the wind, the rain, the cosmos.

But maybe the human form, if made in Gods image is the highest form in the universe, that is a possibility you know.

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: Anmon grow up Or maybe you just don't think much.

Actually, I think about spiritual matters all the time. As a family, we discuss things like this almost daily. It's hard *not* to, since we're battered by religion (mostly mainline protestant Christianity, but by others as well) on a routine basis, so we discuss it frequently.

We just try show the kids it's possible to avoid getting sucked into the fairy tales as defense mechanisms against the unknown.

[another day]

Quote by: Anmon But maybe the human form, if made in Gods image is the highest form in the universe, that is a possibility you know.

Anything is a possibility... but that sounds ridiculous to me. This is just the kind of arrogance that Christians believe in. In reality we are nothing more then naked apes that developed unparalleled intelligence through the chance of many evolutionary successes.

Why on earth would you think the human form is the "highest form in the universe"? Higher then the mountains and the trees and the fruit and fire without which we would inevitably die.

No.. the highest form in the universe is all encompassing. In reality there are no forms, only the ONE (which you may call god, but I call nature), and there can not be any one form which is higher then any other because they all depend on each other to exist.

in buddhism i think they say something to the effect of the ant is equal to the man, and it's this premise they base it on. Everything is equal because it's all part of a complex ecological balance which relies on every single element within it to function properly.

[Anmon]

=JaneDoe321;497644]Actually, I think about spiritual matters all the time. As a family, we discuss things like this almost daily. It's hard *not* to, since we're battered by religion (mostly mainline protestant Christianity, but by others as well) on a routine basis, so we discuss it frequently.

Have you come up with any answers?

[another day]

Quote by: Anmon Have you come up with any answers?

Lol, anyone who thinks they have is lying or is a christian. The most wise and noble approach is to admit you know nothing.

[Donkey Sage]

Quote by: Anmon By what but?

Created by anything is what I meant, wasn't speaking specifcally.

Quote by: Anmon Yes, but what set it all off to begin with?

Good question. I ask it quite often. Still no answer. Will let you know whenever I find out.

Quote by: Anmon Apparently the Big bang theory is now of thought as just that, a theory, a possibility, not fact like it was taught for years. And what was around in the present day space the universe occupys presently, before the big bang , if thats what happened to create this universe? Do you see the conundrum?

I think the big crunch theory explains this. The Big Bang is a continuous process. It expands and falls back in on itself. What if the universe itself is an object in an even bigger amount of space? The possibilities are quite endless with that.

Quote by: Anmon Its our sun.

Grow up.

Quote by: Anmon OK, if it was so average, we would have discovered thousands of other earth like planets in solar systems through Hubble, but we haven't have we, so maybe our planet, sun and solar system is not so average after all.

Read on these, junior.
Astronomers see that Milky Way is packed with earth-like orbs - Boing Boing
The first evidence of new Earth-like planets

Quote by: Anmon Yes, but size doesn't exactly necessitate importance.

Point noted.

Quote by: Anmon How many other planets have we discovered through Hubble, which has scanned the universe back to roughly 10- 15 billion years ago, have we discovered like earth?

See two quotes above.