Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Magnus · Apr 12, 2008, 08:39 pm

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Quote by: Chaossaber314

I.) If a Christian is a person with a relationship with Jesus Christ
II.) And Jesus Christ is a subset of God
III.) And God is everywhere and everything
IV.) Than everyone has a relationship with Jesus Christ since any relationship anywhere is a relationship with Jesus Christ
V.) And thus everyone is a Christian per your definition

Lol nice

Will_00 · Apr 12, 2008, 10:51 pm

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I'm still trying to sort out the supposed rationalization that allows the qualification for membership in a specific subset of religion to disqualify it from that categorization. Being a religion and having a "personal relationship" are not mutually exclusive.

It seems to be that the acceptance of the Relationship nearly must be evident for the actual occurance of the theme in which you describe to take place.

Technosoul · Apr 13, 2008, 01:57 am

I have a personal relationship with everything, does that count?

Will_00 · Apr 13, 2008, 09:28 am

This is what it states in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

**Jack** · Apr 13, 2008, 10:41 am

Ritual human sacrifice is a common theme in many religions. Thanks for providing another example that contradicts the OP.

Winter wind · Apr 13, 2008, 10:51 am

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Quote by: Will_00

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

The definition of religion is:

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

religion - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education

That is part of Christianity. See, I'm Christian, so I understand what your talking about. To a Christian, Christianity is much more then a religion. However, it is a religion to everyone (as Christianity is, if partially, belief in a supernatural creator of the universe). Yet it also is a personal relationship with God.

Why can't it be both a religion and a personal relationship with God?

Will_00 · Apr 13, 2008, 11:23 am

]quote]Why can't it be both a religion and a personal relationship with God?[/quote]

This statement is completely obvious and has been restated continously: According to the world, Christianity is a Religion. Yet according to what is in fact True and the Bible, it is a Relationship with Jesus Christ.

Winter wind · Apr 13, 2008, 11:58 am

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Quote by: will_00

Yet according to what is in fact True and the Bible, it is a Relationship with Jesus Christ.

Answer the following. Do you believe in supernatural power that created and still governs the universe?

If so, then even you think it's a religion. And a relationship with Jesus Christ.

Will_00 · Apr 13, 2008, 12:03 pm

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Answer the following. Do you believe in supernatural power that created and still governs the universe?

If so, then even you think it's a religion. And a relationship with Jesus Christ.

According to the world. The world apparently thinks they govern the definition of what exists.

Winter wind · Apr 13, 2008, 12:04 pm

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Quote by: will_00

According to the world. The world apparently thinks they govern the definition of what exists.

you didn't answer the question.

Do you think God created the universe and still governs it using powers beyond our comprehension?

Will_00 · Apr 13, 2008, 12:06 pm

Of course I believe in God, yet it is according to the world that Christianity is a "Religion."

Winter wind · Apr 13, 2008, 12:09 pm

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Of course I believe in God, yet it is according to the world that Christianity is a "Religion."

However, by your own admission, you also believe Christianity is a "religion". Because believing God created the universe and still governs it using powers beyond our comprehension is literally the definition of "religion". That's what it is in the dictionary.

I don't see what else there is to say. But I may be missing something.

Will_00 · Apr 13, 2008, 12:48 pm

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I don't see what else there is to say. But I may be missing something.

Yes, that God rules over All things - including definitions.

Winter wind · Apr 13, 2008, 12:49 pm

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Yes, that God rules over All things - including definitions.

I agree. So whats your point?

Will_00 · Apr 13, 2008, 01:17 pm

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I agree. So whats your point?

That it doesn't matter what the world says, God Is Infinitely Greater.

Winter wind · Apr 14, 2008, 01:22 am

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That it doesn't matter what the world says, God Is Infinitely Greater.

So then Christianity isn't a religion, because God said otherwise?

What verse?

(still not sure if I understand everything about this argument)

freefallife · Apr 14, 2008, 02:40 am

I don't think anyone does.

christianmathew · Apr 14, 2008, 01:18 pm

Winter wind,
Actually christianity is too great to be a religion. It is a lifestyle. It is a community. It is a matter of being. It is everything. It just is. It is not so much that god says that it isn't a religion simply as that it isn't. Just like it isn't that god says evolution is wrong, it just is.

Freefallife, you just like to argue, don't you?

**Jack** · Apr 14, 2008, 01:28 pm

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Actually christianity is too great to be a religion. It is a lifestyle. It is a community. It is a matter of being. It is everything.

How is that any different from Buddhism?

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Just like it isn't that god says evolution is wrong, it just is.

So I can just say religion and Christianity are wrong, without any rhyme or reason, and that's OK?

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Freefallife, you just like to argue, don't you?

This is a debating forum. Opposing opinions are the norm.

Fangrim · Apr 14, 2008, 01:47 pm

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Quote by: Will_00

Quote:

Why can't it be both a religion and a personal relationship with God?

This statement is completely obvious and has been restated continously: According to the world, Christianity is a Religion. Yet according to what is in fact True and the Bible, it is a Relationship with Jesus Christ.

I'm taking up Isherwood's and others' point.

You have not yet shown why Christianity cannot be both a religion and a relationship with Christ. They are not mutually exclusive.

An example: There is an object concealed in a box.
Alex says that the object is round. Bob says that the object is blue, and thus cannot be round. However, Bob did not successfuly prove the object to not be round simply because it is blue, as it could easily be both round and blue. They are not mutually exclusive.

Thus, simply because Christianity is a personal relationship with Christ, that does not bar it from also being characterized as a religion. You have yet to show otherwise.

Apr 13, 2008, 09:28 am	#44 (permalink) (top)
Will_00 Computer Nerd Posts: 221	This is what it states in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." "Intellectual growth should begin at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein My Website

Apr 13, 2008, 10:41 am	#45 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,010	Ritual human sacrifice is a common theme in many religions. Thanks for providing another example that contradicts the OP. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Apr 13, 2008, 11:23 am	#47 (permalink) (top)
Will_00 Computer Nerd Posts: 221	]quote]Why can't it be both a religion and a personal relationship with God?[/quote] This statement is completely obvious and has been restated continously: According to the world, Christianity is a Religion. Yet according to what is in fact True and the Bible, it is a Relationship with Jesus Christ. "Intellectual growth should begin at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein My Website

Apr 13, 2008, 12:06 pm	#51 (permalink) (top)
Will_00 Computer Nerd Posts: 221	Of course I believe in God, yet it is according to the world that Christianity is a "Religion." "Intellectual growth should begin at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein My Website

Apr 14, 2008, 02:40 am	#57 (permalink) (top)
freefallife Heaven? Try skydivin Posts: 433	I don't think anyone does. "I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts

Apr 13, 2008, 01:57 am	#43 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	I have a personal relationship with everything, does that count?

Apr 14, 2008, 01:18 pm	#58 (permalink) (top)
christianmathew caring christian Location: right here Posts: 177	Winter wind, Actually christianity is too great to be a religion. It is a lifestyle. It is a community. It is a matter of being. It is everything. It just is. It is not so much that god says that it isn't a religion simply as that it isn't. Just like it isn't that god says evolution is wrong, it just is. Freefallife, you just like to argue, don't you? I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. I gave in, and admitted that God was God. C. S. Lewis