Representative tries to put the fear of God in atheist

[Magnus]

Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) interrupted atheist activist Rob Sherman during his testimony Wednesday afternoon before the House State Government Administration Committee in Springfield and told him, "What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous . . . it's dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists!
"This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God," Davis said. "Get out of that seat . . . You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon."

Representative tries to put the fear of God in atheist -- Religion and Belief -- chicagotribune.com

Christian tolerance ? Are atheists persecuted? Is God real?

These and other questions will be answered in this thread !

p.s. Lincoln wasnt Christian, and niether were many of the founding fathers, and if only there existed a document where early on it was said in plain black and white that this isnt a chrisitan nation!

Oh wait! there is! the Treaty of Tripoli!

The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," -Treaty of Tripoli, 1797

Arghh! those muslims got us good, they foresaw this argument and pre-empted us and forced the founding fathers to write that ! ! damn them all!!

[Jack]

I've been reading this as it's made its way around the atheist blogs. It's simply amazing that anyone would think that they should advocate "protecting" kids from exposure to contrary opinions. I can only think that some people's faith is so shaky they can't even risk exposure to thinking from outside their tiny little box.

Not that I think that's a bad thing. Faith gets shaky just before it crumbles entirely from constantly banging into reality.

[Voluntary]

Here is a clip with an audio link. Davis really loses it at the end, while Sherman keeps his cool. Props to Sherman.

Change of Subject - Observations, reports, tips, referrals and tirades | Chicago Tribune | Blog

You are right, Lincoln wasn't a christian but a deist who admired Thomas Paine.

[Halofan48]

Another incident of religious prejudice. *sigh* at this rate, our country isn't going to make much progress with relations with others...

[Cephus]

And the religious are the ones pretending to be tolerant and open-minded, then something like this happens and we get to see the reality behind the mask.

[Halofan48]

It's not all of them, only some. Though, it does appear that they have gained high positions in our government.

[Magnus]

Quote by: Voluntary Here is a clip with an audio link. Davis really loses it at the end, while Sherman keeps his cool. Props to Sherman. Change of Subject - Observations, reports, tips, referrals and tirades | Chicago Tribune | Blog You are right, Lincoln wasn't a christian but a deist who admired Thomas Paine.

Thanks for the link Voluntary, it is even more disgusting than I had imagined, I didnt know she was black, pointing out her race because most black churches are fundamentalist. The minority vs minority thing makes it even more vile.

Of course the Atheist was not allowed to respond and crush the talking points from the old hag, he was told to just stay on topic.

Of course the christians on this site will say "oh thats unchristian, we dont agree with her !" like they do whenever any christian does anything bad. While they actually do agree with her, and some may even voice support for her here.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: Magnus Of course the Atheist was not allowed to respond and crush the talking points from the old hag, he was told to just stay on topic.

He did not need to respond, but remain calm. She made a fool out of herself that even moderate theists can recognize.

His daughter is also an activist of upholding Jefferson's Wall.

The atheist's daughter -- High Schools, Cook County -- chicagotribune.com

[HelioPrime]

Once again more example of extreme atheist bias and willingness to jump and attack every religious person because of the acts of a minority. I love the assumption we all secretly agree with her.

I didn't listen to the audio but from the story the issue seems to be over using state funds for a church? Isn't that unconstitutional regardless?

[Morality Games]

And based on the content and focus of your post, you seem more upset with atheists for being upset about being attacked than with her for attacking them.

Not that I disagree entirely with what you are saying, but this was a bad way to go about it.

Anyway, let's all keep a calm, rational head about this.

[Jack]

I'm too old to get upset about these sorts of things anymore. I'm more pleased that thanks to the internet fewer officials are allowed to get away with nonsense like this without being called out for it.

Once again more example of extreme atheist bias and willingness to jump and attack every religious person because of the acts of a minority. I love the assumption we all secretly agree with her.

Bias isn't necessarily a bad thing. We all have some. If you hold to an opinion sincerely, I suppose you could call that extreme bias. Still, it's not to say that one couldn't be convinced otherwise. That will depend on the individual.

To be fair, it's rather silly to accuse all atheists of behaving a certain way while protesting atheists doing the same thing to Christians.

[gallo]

Quote by: Magnus Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago): "This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God,"

Burned out my irony meter.

As you pointed out, Lincoln was not a christian. If we are to believe his wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, he was an atheist. After Lincoln's death she expressed the fear that Abe had gone to hell because of it.

It is interesting to note that, as Rev. Bird Wilson (who knew several of them) lamented in 1831, of our first Presidents (George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Q. Adams, Andrew Jackson) none was a christian. The two Adams were Unitarians and the rest were deists, except that Jackson was more likely an atheist.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Isherwood To be fair, it's rather silly to accuse all atheists of behaving a certain way while protesting atheists doing the same thing to Christians.

I haven't seen anything to prove to the contrary. The most common commentary against this type of situation in a generalized attack on theists.

[Magnus]

Quote by: HelioPrime I haven't seen anything to prove to the contrary. The most common commentary against this type of situation in a generalized attack on theists.

Thats definately out of line !
When christians do christian things, like persecuting non-christians, we shouldnt blame the christians, unless it happened in a far away time.

The crusades? Yes we can blame the christians! but thats the past, christians dont do that anymore

The inquistion? Yes we can blame the christians! but thats the past, christians dont do that anymore


The holocaust? No, its within the "time frame" also, didnt you know Hitler wasnt a christian, he believed in god, said he was christian, and invoked god in many of his speeches, but he wasnt a christian, becuase itll make us looks really bad if he did!

This representative? Not christian! no sir eee bob !

But Ahmedinjad? Palestinians? Saddam? All muslims doing muslims things ! Ha Ha Christianity wins again !!

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Magnus Thats definately out of line ! When christians do christian things, like persecuting non-christians, we shouldnt blame the christians, unless it happened in a far away time. The crusades? Yes we can blame the christians! but thats the past, christians dont do that anymore The inquistion? Yes we can blame the christians! but thats the past, christians dont do that anymore The holocaust? No, its within the "time frame" also, didnt you know Hitler wasnt a christian, he believed in god, said he was christian, and invoked god in many of his speeches, but he wasnt a christian, becuase itll make us looks really bad if he did! This representative? Not christian! no sir eee bob ! But Ahmedinjad? Palestinians? Saddam? All muslims doing muslims things ! Ha Ha Christianity wins again !!

There are a number of people I could name on this site you do just the above. Cite the crusades or another example as a clear reason as to why religion a threat that needs to be dealt with.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: HelioPrime Once again more example of extreme atheist bias and willingness to jump and attack every religious person because of the acts of a minority.

I think you are being a bit irrational. I really don't see how christianity as a whole is being attacked, especially in this thread.

I love the assumption we all secretly agree with her.

I love your presumption.

I didn't listen to the audio but from the story the issue seems to be over using state funds for a church? Isn't that unconstitutional regardless?

This lady was clearly out of line driven by HER faith and ignorance. Is it so hard to see? Listen to the audio. This lady is a loon. She made the unwarranted attacks.

Davis, a public figure, said "You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon."

[obvious child]

Quote by: Isherwood It's simply amazing that anyone would think that they should advocate "protecting" kids from exposure to contrary opinions. I can only think that some people's faith is so shaky they can't even risk exposure to thinking from outside their tiny little box. Not that I think that's a bad thing. Faith gets shaky just before it crumbles entirely from constantly banging into reality.

Agreed. If a belief was indeed true and believed to be true, then there would be no risk of exposure to contrary beliefs. There is a reason why Intelligent Design and Literal genesis creationists are so adamantly against teaching Creationism/ID next to other religions' origin stories.

And isn't America the land of choice and freedom? Why should we restrict what people are exposed to in the religious aspect? Shouldn't people be free to choose what they want to believe?

[Jack]

The most common commentary against this type of situation in a generalized attack on theists.

What you perceive as an "attack" I would contend is often intended as sincere disagreement, no matter which side of the debate you're on. Someone who disagrees with you and isn't afraid to spell out their reasons isn't attacking anyone. They're practicing one of the most dynamic aspects of free speech.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Voluntary I think you are being a bit irrational. I really don't see how christianity as a whole is being attacked, especially in this thread.

And the religious are the ones pretending to be tolerant and open-minded, then something like this happens and we get to see the reality behind the mask.


Not that I think that's a bad thing. Faith gets shaky just before it crumbles entirely from constantly banging into reality.

NOTE: I said THEISTS, not christians in general. And yes, it happened a few times here and often in other threads. Not every comment is an open attack but often just a thin insult at religion or faith in general.

There is a difference between free speech and attacks. The second comment above is an example. Isherwood would probably just call it free speech, but if I said a simple veiled insult generalized against atheists I'd be confronted over it. Here, can you just walk away without commenting on this:

How can those who don't even believe in any moral law lead a nation. Their only law is whatever popular concept is written on flimsy paper

[Jack]

if I said a simple veiled insult generalized against atheists I'd be confronted over it.

Perhaps because I insulted (rather blatantly, I thought) theism, not theists. I respect the right of anyone to believe what they will. I do not, however, have to respect the subject of their belief. I am firmly convinced by study and experience that theism, theology, religious philosophy, is nonsense. I have no respect for that body of opinion. That does not imply any attitude toward those people who espouse those beliefs. I like people. On the whole, I think people are decent, well intentioned and generous. But even the nicest people can hold beliefs I don't subscribe to.

Free speech does indeed permit me to say what I truly think about religion. If my disrespect toward religion and my public writings that point out the nonsense incorporated into religion offend others, too bad. Offense is not assault. Those who hold beliefs I find ridiculous may wish to portray themselves as victims and claim oppression, but the reality is that they are simply whining because not everyone will credit them with having discovered the ultimate truth. If their faith is sufficiently strong, my opposition to their beliefs won't bother them. And if they are wise, they'll understand my opposition is to their philosophy, not them as individuals.