The Christian God Doesn't Hate Gays

[Will_00]

No, you hope that he will find your truth. Don't assume that your truth is the truth.

Despite the continious aspects of "proof" you bring up I will continue to believe in the One True God that Is and Will Be Forever and Ever.

[gela]

Good, continue to believe that.

Don't assume that your belief is any better or more true then anyone else's belief; just because yours is dictated by a book.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: gela Good, continue to believe that. Don't assume that your belief is any better or more true then anyone else's belief; just because yours is dictated by a book.

Books do dictate all the aspects of a civilized culture, for that which is written becomes the law of the land, and that which is not written can change in the shifting sands of time, and cannot become like a stone to give us a solid and unchanging standard as our foundation for judgement.

[Tycoon]

Despite the continious aspects of "proof" you bring up I will continue to believe in the One True God that Is and Will Be Forever and Ever.

It seems the one true God defies even the rules of grammar.

[Will_00]

If course.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: Will_00 Despite the continious aspects of "proof" you bring up I will continue to believe in the One True God that Is and Will Be Forever and Ever.

Back to homosexuality....

Well, I've given my stance on the Bible a billion times. I'll give it again:

My God is logical. In fact he is more logical then any human. So when I ask, "what difference does it make," I generally expect an answer. The Bible is only logical if you point out these lines:

"Likewise, no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the skins are ruined. Rather, new wine is poured into fresh wineskins."
Mark 2:22
Quote:
"In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
Hebrew 8:13

God acts through man. Jesus was not happy with those who followed the letter of the Bible before he changed it. He did not politely say "I know that was then, but this is now". He called them hypocrites.
Quote:
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered
A translation (i don't put words in mouth, just clean up the old english): You idiot, lawyers! You have the key to knowledge. You're smart. I know, because God gave you that key. And yet you don't use your head! You don't use the key. You just stick to stopping others from using the key (key = brains in this analogy).

Not objectionable. (i think...)

He expected that humans would have tended to the wine and not just cling to the wineskin.
He expects that from us. And how is this possible? How can humans be allowed to change anything?
Because God lives inside us.
God gave us the Bible in the (maybe vain) hope that we would use our brains when reading it. That we would be able to change wineskins by ourselves.
Quote:
our sufficiency is from God, who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2 Corinthians 3:5-6:
not the letter but the Spirit.

This all adds up to certain parts of the Bible are a part of the covenant that is the "old wine skin". I personally think the law against homosexuality is one of them. But, as I don't claim to see the one absolute truth about the Bible, I'm open to other opinions.

[Will_00]

The Bible is only logical if you point out these lines:

The Bible Always is True.

[Tycoon]

The Bible Always is True.

Spare me. If you can't get over your stance that the bible is always true then nobody is going to waste time debating you.

[Will_00]

Spare me. If you can't get over your stance that the bible is always true then nobody is going to waste time debating you.

Then what is your argument - And I continue to stand on the Truth that The Bible is Always True, despite other's beliefs.

[Tycoon]

Then what is your argument - And I continue to stand on the Truth that The Bible is Always True, despite other's beliefs.

What is my argument? You refuse to accept my argument. Several people have told you that homosexuality is not a choice, and as I am gay myself I can confirm it.

So, knowing that homosexuality is not a choice, my question is how you can agree with the bible that it should be considered a sin.

And "the bible is always true" is not an answer to the question, as the credibility of the bible is in question in this particular thread

[Will_00]

Sin is a choice.

[Tycoon]

Sin is a choice.

And as being homosexual is not a choice that would mean it is not a sin and therefore the bible is wrong.

[Will_00]

And as being homosexual is not a choice that would mean it is not a sin and therefore the bible is wrong.

First of all, you just contradicted yourself. As well, at all times sin is a choice, so it must be so that since the Bible dictates Truth over all men, it must be so that homosexuality is a choice, despite your belief that it is not.

[Tycoon]

First of all, you just contradicted yourself.

I did not contradict myself, I pointed out a contradiction in the bible.

As well, at all times sin is a choice, so it must be so that since the Bible dictates Truth over all men, it must be so that homosexuality is a choice, despite your belief that it is not.

Once again your argument is based on the assumption that the bible is true. As the credibility of the bible is in question that is not a debatable position. Homosexuality is not a choice, regardless of what the bible says, which makes what the bible says false.

[Will_00]

Once again your argument is based on the assumption that the bible is true. As the credibility of the bible is in question that is not a debatable position. Homosexuality is not a choice, regardless of what the bible says, which makes what the bible says false.

No, first of all it is not an assumption. That is unfortunate if you believe that, yet again I will state that in actuality I KNOW FOR ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that the Bible is indeed True. It is regardless of what you state, the Bible is Still True.

[Jack]

"...in actuality I KNOW FOR ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that the Bible is indeed True. It is regardless of what you state, the Bible is Still True."
For you. Personal certainty does not establish universal truth. No one can argue you can't believe what you do. Neither can you argue that non-believers can reject your assertions as inapplicable to them.

Homosexuality is not a choice, regardless of what the bible says, which makes what the bible says false.

If you read the parts of the Old Testament that Christians pick and choose from to build their code of ethics, you'll note that the Bible says nothing about homosexuality. It was not understood then the way we understand it today. All the O.T. condemns is homosexual-like behavior. It presumes those committing such acts were heterosexual. The writers of the O.T. had no concept of homosexual orientation, and in their ignorance presumed acts such as men lying with men as with women were men that would otherwise be lying with women. It was beyond their understanding that some men might be disposed to lying with other men. Notice there's no similar prohibition against women lying with women as with a man. Probably because their society was very paternalistic and little concern was shown for what women did as long as they performed their wifely duties.

[Tycoon]

No, first of all it is not an assumption. That is unfortunate if you believe that, yet again I will state that in actuality I KNOW FOR ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that the Bible is indeed True. It is regardless of what you state, the Bible is Still True.

Oh? And how do you know that the bible is true?

[freefallife]

Quote by: Tycoon Oh? And how do you know that the bible is true?

Because the bible tells him so! Duh!

[Hurt]

Quote by: freefallife Because the bible tells him so! Duh!

No! God put in what he wants in there ):

you should read more carefully ):

Will - you have to stop arguing assuming that Christianity is true, regardless of what you think (or know, as you've been saying) because no one else accepts it. Therefore, arguing using it would be completely pointless.

[Will_00]

For you. Personal certainty does not establish universal truth. No one can argue you can't believe what you do. Neither can you argue that non-believers can reject your assertions as inapplicable to them.

It doesn't matter what you continually state, I will still Believe in what I KNOW to be correct and True and believe in the One and Only True God - which Is and Will Be Forever and Ever.

If you read the parts of the Old Testament that Christians pick and choose from to build their code of ethics, you'll note that the Bible says nothing about homosexuality. It was not understood then the way we understand it today. All the O.T. condemns is homosexual-like behavior. It presumes those committing such acts were heterosexual. The writers of the O.T. had no concept of homosexual orientation, and in their ignorance presumed acts such as men lying with men as with women were men that would otherwise be lying with women. It was beyond their understanding that some men might be disposed to lying with other men. Notice there's no similar prohibition against women lying with women as with a man. Probably because their society was very paternalistic and little concern was shown for what women did as long as they performed their wifely duties.

You are simply tweaking what the Bible says here. The Bible specifically states that homosexuality is a sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders." 1 Timothy 1:10: "for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine."

Oh? And how do you know that the bible is true?

Through Supernatural Acts, Faith, Belief, Truth, etc.

Will - you have to stop arguing assuming that Christianity is true, regardless of what you think (or know, as you've been saying) because no one else accepts it. Therefore, arguing using it would be completely pointless.

I know what you are talking about. Yet continually you are at a loss to see what is Absolute Truth. God works in amazing ways.