Raised Christian

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: HelioPrime Where do you seriously go to school. I went to catholic high school and although I never meet an open atheist we had enough jews and pagans who received no sort of personal attacks. Perhaps it's just a hunch but I'd hazard a guess that average public school student doesn't really give a crap about religion while their young. While person to person individual feelings may vary I doubt most american school kids think or talk about being christian or any other faith. As for atheists I don't think they care either because seriously who cars? Your an atheist big deal, they have more important things to worry about like cell phones, cars, girls, basketball, and the prom. I think a number of atheists just have a complex where they worry to much about what others are thinking.

I go to school in Georgia.

I've literally been attacked and beat up 'cause of my non-beliefs.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Tycoon You're building an argument against yourself. This is just an example of how people use Christianity as insurance under the fear of death.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that if and when it's used, it's not that great a motivator.

And why would you know anything about this? You're not an atheist. Besides, if you didn't agree with the logic and reasoning behind atheism then you wouldn't be an atheist...

That's not exactly true. Some people, for instance, abandon their native faith because it tells them that their carnal desire for someone of the same sex is wrong. Atheism is the natural default in such a case.

And how would I know about atheistic peer pressure? Because I'm a college student in a scientific field and I debate on a mostly atheist debate forum, fcol. Most of the insults I've mention have been lobbed at me at one time or another: some of those in this very thread. Just because I didn't cave to that pressure doesn't mean I don't have some small idea about it.

Also, only insecure people would cave into this peer pressure you are assuming exists. Whereas anybody can be brainwashed by having ideas continuously ingrained in them since a young impressionable age.

The brainwashing that you purport is merely another form of societal pressure. And whether or not someone caves to it is not the issue. The issue is that it in fact exists and people feel its influence.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: HelioPrime Your the one suggesting statistics on intelligence. Don't bring up averages unless your going to provide the data to backup any claim. Anything I've brought up here is just personal observation via my school experience.

I didn't bring it up.. I was asked of it.

Still, I don't see the relevance of this.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer I go to school in Georgia. I've literally been attacked and beat up 'cause of my non-beliefs.

Then might your upbringing have influenced your atheism?

Your perhaps more against all christians and on the offensive because of your experiences growing up? Perhaps the reactions by your peers further pushed you down the road away from any religion.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: HelioPrime Then might your upbringing have influenced your atheism? Your perhaps more against all christians and on the offensive because of your experiences growing up? Perhaps the reactions by your peers further pushed you down the road away from any religion.

Yes, I became an atheist because I was being attacked for being an atheist...

[Tycoon]

I've spent the last 9 years as an athiest, so yes, it is unreasonable to assume that I've been blinded by Christianity.

Your example is very specific. In most cases people don't even question these ideas that they've been brainwashed into believing.

Read.

If being raised Christian at such an impressionable age is the determining factor for peoples' beliefs, how were you able to become athiest? How was I? Are we just extra special, rare intellects?

What Lullaby said.

Undoubtably, children are impressionable and likely to accept what they are told. However, teens and adults are not - and growing up in our free society, they are very likely to question.

Not if they had already been ingrained since childhood. As you have been.

The truth is that it's COMMON and EASY in our culture to disagree with our parents and make our own choices about our beliefs. Diversity and free information are all around us. We might get in an argument with our parents, or get grounded, but we won't be stoned to death for blasphemy - we'll be just fine.

Children won't question what their parents are teaching them.

Most people are intelligent enough to decide for themselves. You may not like it but it doesn't make it any less their choice if they decide differently than you.

You're avoiding most of my questions. And you're right, it was their choice to blindly follow what their parents ingrained in them. Something that I wouldn't attribute to rare intellect.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Halofan48 Um, no actually. Lets think. You have a five year old. You tell them they have to believe this or they'll burn forever in a pit of torment called hell. I think that's going to scare most children. Also, one of my friends went from being christian to being a buddhist, and his parents called him stupid and a moron. So please don't act like only atheists will do such things to their children if trying to raise them as an atheist.

I'm not saying it's just atheist parents. I'm saying it's atheists in general society.

[Halofan48]

Perhaps in your case, Helio, they don't bug you about religion, but not mine. It started back in middle school for me. One of the more popular kids, named Ashkon, was found out to be atheist. People started bullying him, insulting him for being an atheist, etc. It still happens, and i'm now in HS.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Maybe I'm an exception, but as a kid, I would literally cry every night trying to express to God that I loved him infinitely because I was afraid he would send me to Hell. I was scared shitless. One thanksgiving my little cousin playfully stabbed my ear with one of his toys. I started bleeding from my ear, and he saw it. He had nightmares for months about me dying 'cause when he gets a "headshot" in his video games, they always die. C'mon PF.. adults joke about the boogey man and that scares kids. I don't think you're being at all realistic.

There is that, and I suppose it affects different kids differently, depending on their experiences.

But peer pressure is still a much better and more immediate motivator.

[Tycoon]

That's not exactly true. Some people, for instance, abandon their native faith because it tells them that their carnal desire for someone of the same sex is wrong. Atheism is the natural default in such a case.

If you're suggesting that I deferred from my Christian faith only because Christianity attacks me personally then you're wrong. It was only the foot through the door for me.

And how would I know about atheistic peer pressure? Because I'm a college student in a scientific field and I debate on a mostly atheist debate forum, fcol. Most of the insults I've mention have been lobbed at me at one time or another: some of those in this very thread. Just because I didn't cave to that pressure doesn't mean I don't have some small idea about it.

Then that's not peer pressure from atheists to atheists, it's peer pressure from atheists to Christians, and obviously, there is much more pressure to be Christian.

[Halofan48]

And how would I know about atheistic peer pressure? Because I'm a college student in a scientific field and I debate on a mostly atheist debate forum, fcol. Most of the insults I've mention have been lobbed at me at one time or another: some of those in this very thread. Just because I didn't cave to that pressure doesn't mean I don't have some small idea about it.

Calling some one a fool won't help your argument. Also, you claim you have had attacks lobbed on to you. Well, please link them.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Oh yes.. atheism is the new highschool peer pressure.. give me a break..

It is in the scientific community. And it was in Communist Russia. As atheism is enforced in schools at a younger and younger age, it will become more widespread.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: phoenix_fire It is in the scientific community. And it was in Communist Russia. As atheism is enforced in schools at a younger and younger age, it will become more widespread.

And they are wrong to do so. They should enforce agnosticism, if they aren't already.

They should enforce well accepted science. If there is significant argument among scientists as to what is what in a topic.. then it should be saved for higher ages and/or explained that there are scientists on both sides of the fence.. and here is the evidence.

Then again, there aren't really any accepted scientific theories for a God. :-(

[Halofan48]

It is in the scientific community. And it was in Communist Russia. As atheism is enforced in schools at a younger and younger age, it will become more widespread.

Nowhere in my school does it say there is no god. If you are referring to not allowing the bible or creationism into public schools, they are following the constitution.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer I also never claimed to have it. That was your own shortcoming, dear. It's presented in my video. Video Description Excerpt: Intelligence and Education statistics come from the Tearfund organization as linked previously as well as DOZENS of studies that can be summed up by Paul Bell in an article in Mensa magazine. Bell, Paul. "Would you believe it?" Mensa Magazine, Feb. 2002, pp. 12--13

Do you have a link to those studies, or to the Mensa Magazine article that discusses them. Or can you direct me to the part of that Tearfund link that you are refering to.. it's 336 pages.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Tycoon If you're suggesting that I deferred from my Christian faith only because Christianity attacks me personally then you're wrong. It was only the foot through the door for me.

So you say. But that it was at all determinant deals a serious blow to your insistence of logical objectivity. Further, my explanation makes quite a lot of sense if you think about it.

Then that's not peer pressure from atheists to atheists, it's peer pressure from atheists to Christians, and obviously, there is much more pressure to be Christian.

So you're conceding that such pressure exists? We can argue all day about which is more persistent or influential and our evidence will be anecdotal at best, but at least you're realizing the basic truth that the pressure exists.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer And they are wrong to do so. They should enforce agnosticism, if they aren't already. They should enforce well accepted science. If there is significant argument among scientists as to what is what in a topic.. then it should be saved for higher ages and/or explained that there are scientists on both sides of the fence.. and here is the evidence.

If only.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Yes, I became an atheist because I was being attacked for being an atheist...

So then atheism is just as influenced by upbringing.

The whole point of the thread is over why people blame a christian upbringing as a downfall.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Halofan48 Calling some one a fool won't help your argument. Also, you claim you have had attacks lobbed on to you. Well, please link them.

I wasn't. Fcol:

For Crying Out Loud.

And I and others have quoted some of these several times in this thread. This one, for instance:

Quote by: Zhav The rest of us get a little peaved when you deny the fact that the only reason you believe in a self-fathering cosmic jewish zombie is because you were tricked into believing from an age before you knew any better.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Tycoon In most cases people don't even question these ideas that they've been brainwashed into believing.

Quote by: Tycoon Not if they had already been ingrained since childhood. As you have been..

I assert that most people in our society do question the beliefs they were raised with. Most teenagers do begin to think for themselves and question their parents. It's a stage in human development. And adults aren't stupid, they decide for themselves. Just because someone decides to believe what they were raised with as a child doesn't mean they never thought about it.

Quote by: Tycoon What Lullaby said.

What did Lullaby say that you are referring to?

Quote by: Tycoon Children won't question what their parents are teaching them.

Again, teens and adults do.

Quote by: Tycoon You're avoiding most of my questions. And you're right, it was their choice to blindly follow what their parents ingrained in them. Something that I wouldn't attribute to rare intellect.

What question did I avoid, specifically?