God is an incompetent referee

[Lullaby Chainer]

Simple question..


Does a Muslim who's brought up to hate Christians, brainwashed by the Koran, and continuously taught to be devoted to the Islam faith..

have as much chance of getting into Heaven as someone brought up in a Christian household and is taught to accept Jesus in their hearts?


C'mon people.. is this really a fair playing field?



Let's even assume this number..

A soul has a set strength predisposition towards faith in Jesus and some people's lives are harder to find Jesus than others because God's setting the bar at different heights depending on what a soul can handle. Wild assumption, I know..

So, we can assume that much "stronger" souls would be the one's born into extreme muslim societies and families brainwashed into hating Christians and Jews.

Then why is it that nearly everyone born into Muslim brainwashing in Iran or someplace extreme like that never comes to accept Jesus as their savior and thus.. goes to Hell?

[Piscean]

Simple question..
[Q

UOTE]Does a Muslim who's brought up to hate Christians, brainwashed by the Koran, and continuously taught to be devoted to the Islam faith..

have as much chance of getting into Heaven as someone brought up in a Christian household and is taught to accept Jesus in their hearts?


C'mon people.. is this really a fair playing field?



Let's even assume this number..

A soul has a set strength predisposition towards faith in Jesus and some people's lives are harder to find Jesus than others because God's setting the bar at different heights depending on what a soul can handle. Wild assumption, I know..

So, we can assume that much "stronger" souls would be the one's born into extreme muslim societies and families brainwashed into hating Christians and Jews.Then why is it that nearly everyone born into Muslim brainwashing in Iran or someplace extreme like that never comes to accept Jesus as their savior and thus.. goes to Hell?[/quote]


These are the evil teachings of men which permiate all religions "join us or go to hell" it's evil thought up to controll the sheep that's all

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Piscean These are the evil teachings of men which permiate all religions "join us or go to hell" it's evil thought up to controll the sheep that's all

Well, of course I agree entirely.

I wish there were more theists on these boards..




(or better ones )

kidddinggggg

[Piscean]

Jesus did what he did for everyone (the pope doesn't want u to know this) and the bastards that crucified him turned around and used his name to make a religion and conquer the world with it!!

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Piscean Jesus did what he did for everyone (the pope doesn't want u to know this) and the bastards that crucified him turned around and used his name to make a religion and conquer the world with it!!

Ah, so you are a theist afterall.

You make it seem like the Pope changed the parts of the Bible on how to get to Hell...

[Piscean]

I don't know if its the pope but i know the real translation of the word hell in the modern bible was origionally, the grave

[Piscean]

And the translation of the word eternal was origionally an age in the origional languidge

[Piscean]

I only believe because of the way ive been answered by God countless times. If all I had to go on was what they teach in church id hate god for being the ultimate tyrant

[Piscean]

I reject everything men teach about God because anybody that wants to be the middleman beetween me and my source is up to something.

[Tycoon]

You know why it's an unfair situation? Because it's an imaginary situation. There is no God and if there was He would be making unfair judgements.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Tycoon You know why it's an unfair situation? Because it's an imaginary situation. There is no God and if there was He would be making unfair judgements.

Again, I can't agree more..

just.. you know.. waiting for the theists..


And I thought you were a Christian, Tyc.. did you deconvert? If so.. awesome man :]

[Tycoon]

And I thought you were a Christian, Tyc.. did you deconvert? If so.. awesome man :]

Yeah, I did. It isn't something many people manage is it? Being gay was the foot through the door.

[Piscean]

[u]Yeah, I did. It isn't something many people manage is it? Being gay was the foot through the door.[/

It's sad how christianity destroys a persons chances to have a good relationship with their source by making you think God hates you for what you are.

[Piscean]

(Click to expand)

sorry they wrecked God for you.

[Jimmy the Pro]

I'll give you some room to tackle on debate.

I believe in this scenario...

1. God loves all He created. Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Scientologists, ect.

2. Humans have different beliefs on the true nature and actions of God which causes different religious views.

3. None of these religions (yes, including Christians) can KNOW exactly what God is like and how He acts, they have to make the bust guess they can on earth.

Given those three premises, let me explain my view of Heaven which seems to be in debate....

We as human beings have free will, that is, the power to choose what we will do. This is true because I'm choosing to repsond to this thread. I have free will. Why should that choice end because I die? God does not SEND people to hell. The people choose to go there.

Now wait you will. Why would anyone choose to go to a place of fire and brimstone? Should I like to be sent to any one of Dante's doors in hell in The Inferno?

4. Hell (I believe) is not a place of fire and brimstone. It is instead just a place with the complete absence of God. If God is love, then Hell is hate. If God is community, then Hell is being alone. ect.

Suppose then that I die and I am given the choice. I am Christian but it seems as though Jewish belief was correct and Jesus was in fact, NOT the Son of God. If this is truly how Heaven is, am I going to CHOOSE accept it or instead CHOOSE not to believe that this is the way things are?

5. No one here is saying that Christians are right and Muslims are wrong. At least I'm not.

Why? Because I'm not sure what God has fully planned for all of us in the afterlife. It could be exactly what Muslims believe it could be what Christians believe. I'm not sure, I am Christian because I believe this is the right way but I don't know.

6. Then even though I am Christian, I advocate coexistence with other religions.

I don't believe the the Islamic faith is complete bs. In fact, there are many striking similarities between the two. Yes in fact, even scientology and Shentoism (s/p?) can have similaries. If I can go to Heaven and understand that things are different and ACCEPT that, then I'd say that's more important than arguing who is "right" on earth.

Those of faith should be strong in what they believe, BUT should also be willing to accept the common truths of other religions and even consider the possibilities of the things we don't hold in common.

To answer your original question...

Quote by: LC Then why is it that nearly everyone born into Muslim brainwashing in Iran or someplace extreme like that never comes to accept Jesus as their savior and thus.. goes to Hell?

We don't KNOW if they went to hell and Christians that say they do are ignorant and set a bad example for those how believe otherwise.

First, IF Jesus is the true savior then Muslims are posed with a CHOICE to accept things as such or choose to live without God in the way He has set things up.

BUT if Jesus is in fact not the savior, and they are correct, they have the CHOICE of continuing to accept such beliefs and it would then be the CHOICE of the Christians to adapt their beliefs.

Make sense?

[Tycoon]

It's sad how christianity destroys a persons chances to have a good relationship with their source by making you think God hates you for what you are.

I'm not being blinded by the fact that I'm gay if that's what you mean. It was what opened my eyes.

[phoenix_fire]

I believe that God is just. However that justice works out and all the details that lead up to the decision...I don't entirely know. I know that for those who don't accept or know Christ, there is almost certainly a degree of judgment varying depending on their opportunity to do so:

Quote by: Mat. 10:14-15 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

Quote by: Mat. 11:20-24 Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.[d] If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

What that practically means as to a soul's fate is not revealed to us. But it is very fair.

I pretty much agree with Jimmy's description of Hell and how you get there. I've made mostly the same description myself on more than one occasion here. I find it interesting that the same ones that take the most offense at the idea that Hell is the place you choose for yourself by rejecting God are also those who delight in calling Him imaginary, incompetent, evil, childish, insane, sick, immoral, closeted, sadistic, etc.

[Tycoon]

1. God loves all He created. Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Scientologists, ect.

This is merely an excuse. If there is not a truly correct perspective then all belief in a God is baseless.

2. Humans have different beliefs on the true nature and actions of God which causes different religious views.

These beliefs are based on teachings from various sources. Either you believe in the sources or you don't. Do you or do you not believe in the bible?

3. None of these religions (yes, including Christians) can KNOW exactly what God is like and how He acts, they have to make the bust guess they can on earth.

If none of the words from the various sources that religions are based on can be trusted then all belief in a God is completely baseless.

We as human beings have free will, that is, the power to choose what we will do. This is true because I'm choosing to repsond to this thread. I have free will. Why should that choice end because I die?

You think you chose to respond to this thread, but in truth you were physically stimulated into responding. What you saw and what you comprehended translated into chemicals in your brain that made you respond, under the very clever illusion of choice.

Why should that choice end because I die? God does not SEND people to hell. The people choose to go there.

If you are no longer basing your beliefs in a particular religion then there is no reason to believe in a hell.

Suppose then that I die and I am given the choice. I am Christian but it seems as though Jewish belief was correct and Jesus was in fact, NOT the Son of God. If this is truly how Heaven is, am I going to CHOOSE accept it or instead CHOOSE not to believe that this is the way things are?

Oh I see. That kind of sounds like insurance to me. Just in case you weren't right the first time you'll see proof that you were wrong and only the dumbest of dumb people wouldn't accept it.

I'm not sure, I am Christian because I believe this is the right way but I don't know.

You are Christian because you were taught Christian ideas at an impressionable age.

If I can go to Heaven and understand that things are different and ACCEPT that, then I'd say that's more important than arguing who is "right" on earth.

So it no longer matters what I do on earth? I could murder twenty-three babies because I thought it was what God wanted, and then be shown the error of my ways and get into heaven anyways.

[Jimmy the Pro]

[P says]quote=It's sad how christianity destroys a persons chances to have a good relationship with their source by making you think God hates you for what you are.[/quote]

And which Christan Dogma are you refering to that "destroys" our relationship with God because He "hates gays"?

Quite the contrary. We believe that God is a God of love and acceptance. It doesn't matter the sexual orientation of the person, they are still loved by God. I ask you sir, how does that destroy their relationship? It doesn't.

Now, some Christians may hate gays for just being gay but DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM on that issue. They do not represent the ideals and dogma of Christianity. They are setting a bad example for the way Jesus told us to live.

Love your neighbor as you love yourself. Jesus told us that was the greatest Commandment. Funny, he didn't add the disclaimer "unless they are different than you". Maybe that's because God really does love all of us equally no matter what our sexual orientation is.

But you can go ahead and think of God as a destroyer if you choose. I'm sure you've got proof to show He loves to make people hate themselves...

[Morality Games]

I pretty much agree with Jimmy's description of Hell and how you get there. I've made mostly the same description myself on more than one occasion here. I find it interesting that the same ones that take the most offense at the idea that Hell is the place you choose for yourself by rejecting God are also those who delight in calling Him imaginary, incompetent, evil, childish, insane, sick, immoral, closeted, sadistic, etc.

I find it interesting how most religions (including Christianity) on their own provide countless reasons why you should not believe, yet people still do.