Vestigiality.

[Jack]

Do people really think that science has discovered 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of a fraction of what there is to know? And yet you wanna make a belief system out of it.

Science isn't a belief system. That claim is only ever made by theists. Science is a methodical attempt to explain nature and natural processes based on evidence. Does it claim to know everything? No. Does it claim to offer absolute truth? No.

I can't really think of anything more foolish off the top of my head!

Try a belief in gods. Those who believe in gods would answer "yes" to each of those last two questions. The belief in gods arose because humans are uncomfortable with the unknown. So to provide something to fill in the gaps in our knowledge of nature, we invented gods. Now that we're beginning to understand how nature works, our need to believe in gods is diminishing. Other superstitions have passed from total belief to total irrelevancy, belief in the gods will eventually follow suit.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Isherwood Science isn't a belief system. That claim is only ever made by theists.

Basically, yes. An example of your point would be the following question: Can science disprove science?

Grandpa h.

[Jack]

It has. Many scientific findings have been later overturned in light of additional evidence or better means of testing.
Theories Proven Wrong has a good discussion of what science does and its limitations. It also addresses the misuse of the term "theory" and a presents a reasonable refutation of ID/Creationism.

[gallo]

Quote by: loser Where would we be without theories?

He wasn't talking about theories. He was talking about your belief in mythology.

I've seen people that are so fat that they can't get out of bed and they definitely can't walk. Even still, I wouldn't call their legs vestigial. The same is true for people who are paralyzed.

Don't change the subject. Fat people have nothing to do with vestigial organs. You're not being honest.

The ostrich's wings were for flight.

They were? When did you ever see an ostrich fly?

Just because he can't fly anymore doesn't make his wings vestigial.

That just makes you look foolish.

I have lots of ideas, don't ever doubt it...

But none of them seem to be rational.

You are wrong...it is still very functional, just like the tonsils.

But I didn't say that it didn't have a function. In fact, I actually mentioned functions that it still has. Can't you be honest for once? The appendix still seems to have functions: a function in immunity just like the rest of the bowel, a resevoir for digestive microbes. Vestigial does not mean without function.

Further, I didn't mention the tonsils. Can't you face the issues honestly?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the design is such that one rudimentary organ can develop into several different organs, as needed.

Oh! Then you are saying that the theories of evolution are correct. An organ that was once used for a particular function can evolve to another function when the original function is no longer needed. Silly me. I thought you were arguing against evolution.

The ToE has got your thinking contained. You need to step outside the box and learn to think for yourself.

You mean that I should stop believing in magical beings and miracles for which there is no evidence because of stories in an old book of mythology? Or are you saying that I should stop evaluating piles of evidence that explain nature without magic? What box should I step out of since, based on evolutionary theory, I think that through time one organ in an ancestor can develop into other organs with other functions over time. That's just what you said. How am I in a box? How is magic and mythology somehow outside a box?

I need mine. Of course, I really don't need my legs anymore... ...but I think I'll try to keep them just the same.

Then it is clear that you can't answer simple questions or give any examples in the real world to support your points.

Essential? Guess what? Eyes, arms, legs, feet, fingers, ears, nose (ask MJ)...none of these are essential...you can get along just fine without them. Vestigial? I think not. Your tonsils have a purpose and are needed. Your appendix has a purpose and is needed. Your wisdom teeth have a purpose and are needed.

So you don't even understand what we are talking about! Why am I not surprised. Actually, neither the appendix nor the tonsils are essential. It isn't a matter of "getting along just fine" without them. You get along with no dicernable difference without them - except that maybe you are less likely to die because of a ruptured appendix and you have fewer throat infections without tonsils. Personally, I consider my eyes, arms, etc. to be essential to my normal function.

Scientists have no purpose and aren't needed. You might say that they are vestigial.

And you think that I am in a box? Your attempt at insult is noted. Of course, the accurately charactarize your remarks would be cause for censure. But I understand why you would make such remarks. You realize how ridiculous you have made yourself appear and are crying out in frustration. Poor baby.

It seems to me (after reading these posts) that the main vestigial organ in man is the brain...it seems to serve no purpose whatsoever.

So you are saying that you don't need your brain and can get along fine without it. You would still be a creationist and believe in a magical being because an old book of mythology says so. I can see what you mean.