The Apostle Paul and Christianity

[freedom13]

The Apostle Paul Founder of Christianity

The Apostle Paul Founder of Christianity Jesus was not the founder of Christianity as we know it today. Most of the New Testament doesn't even concern the historical Jesus while the main influence is the Apostle Paul and a Greek convert named John. Paul never met Jesus in the flesh, he only claimed some strange vision and proceeded to paganize the teachings of Jesus (who preached an enlightened form of Judaism), until he created Pauline Christianity. Because there are no known writings from Jesus, the actual Apostles, or anyone that actually knew Him in the flesh (other then perhaps James), most of what He taught is lost forever. The beginning of Christianity stands two figures: Jesus and Paul. Jesus is regarded by Christians as the founder of their religion, in that the events of his life comprise the foundation story of Christianity; but Paul is regarded as the great interpreter of Jesus' mission, who explained, in a way that Jesus himself never did, how Jesus' life and death fitted into a cosmic scheme of salvation, stretching from the creation of Adam to the end of time. The doctrines of Christianity come mostly from the teaching or influence of Paul, a Pharisee(?) who rejected his Pharisaic Judaism and converted to Christ.

Paul was a religious genius, who invested Greek mystery-religion with the historical sweep and authority of the Jewish Bible.

Is it true that Jesus was not the founder of Christianity as we know it today?

[Jack]

The Catholic church credits Peter with being the disciple who is responsible for modern Christianity.

In Luke is recounted the story that Peter caught so large an amount of fish that he fell down before the feet of Jesus and was told by the Lord, “Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching men”. Jesus also gave Simon a new name: Cephas, or the rock. Becoming a disciple of Jesus, Peter acknowledged him as "... the Messiah, the son of the living God”. Christ responded by saying: "... you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church.... He added: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven”. Peter was always listed as the first of the Apostles in all of the New Testament accounts and was a member of the inner circle of Jesus, with James and John. He is recorded more than any other disciple, and was at Jesus’ side at the Transfiguration, the raising of Jairus’ daughter, and the Agony of the Garden of Gethsemane....The first appearance of the Risen Christ was before Peter, ahead of the other disciples, and when the Lord came before the disciples at Tiberias, he gave to Peter the famous command to “Feed my lambs... Tend my sheep.... Feed my sheep”. In the time immediately after the Ascension, Peter stood as the unquestionable head of the Apostles, his position made evident in the Acts...Peter was instrumental in bringing the Gospel to the Gentiles. He baptized the Roman pagan Cornelius, and at the Council of Jerusalem he gave his support to preaching to Gentiles, thereby permitting the new Church to become universal.

St. Peter, First Pope - Catholic Online

[loser]

While it is true that Peter was given "the keys of the kingdom of heaven", the succession of the bishopric from Peter (called the first bishop or 'pope' by the Catholic church) to the RCC system is an arrogation (appropriation or usurpation) of that right and not one legitimately acquired. Satan seized control of the 'church' through the Roman political power that ruled the day (and, amazingly, still rules), attempting to completely destroy the true Church. Though unsuccessful, the real Church (not the Antichrist counterfeit religion known as Christianity today) was forced "into the wilderness" as revealed in the book of Revelation.

People are right to reject Christianity as proffered today. It is an abomination to the Christ upon which it is purported to be based.

Although the "whole world" is deceived by counterfeit religions (including the one called 'Christianity'), God has reserved "a small flock" unto Himself who are not deceived, being led by His holy Spirit.

Paul did encounter Jesus (after His resurrection) and was a true champion for Jesus Christ. Peter acknowledged Paul thusly:

(CEV) 2Pe 3:15 Don't forget that the Lord is patient because he wants people to be saved. This is also what our dear friend Paul said when he wrote you with the wisdom that God had given him.
2Pe 3:16 Paul talks about these same things in all his letters, but part of what he says is hard to understand. Some ignorant and unsteady people even destroy themselves by twisting what he said. They do the same thing with other Scriptures too.
2Pe 3:17 My dear friends, you have been warned ahead of time! So don't let the errors of evil people lead you down the wrong path and make you lose your balance.

Is it true that Jesus was not the founder of Christianity as we know it today?

That is very true (when you ascribe the counterfeit religion calling itself Christianity as the "Christianity as we know it today". However, there is a "small flock" which is the true Christian church which Jesus did indeed found. Paul, indeed, was a member of that flock.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: freedom13 Is it true that Jesus was not the founder of Christianity as we know it today?[/b]

Yes.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: loser While it is true that Peter was given "the keys of the kingdom of heaven", the succession of the bishopric from Peter (called the first bishop or 'pope' by the Catholic church) to the RCC system is an arrogation (appropriation or usurpation) of that right and not one legitimately acquired. Satan seized control of the 'church' through the Roman political power that ruled the day (and, amazingly, still rules), attempting to completely destroy the true Church. Though unsuccessful, the real Church (not the Antichrist counterfeit religion known as Christianity today) was forced "into the wilderness" as revealed in the book of Revelation.

Prove it.

People are right to reject Christianity as proffered today. It is an abomination to the Christ upon which it is purported to be based.

People are right to reject anything so nonsensical with so no evidence.

Although the "whole world" is deceived by counterfeit religions (including the one called 'Christianity'), God has reserved "a small flock" unto Himself who are not deceived, being led by His holy Spirit.

Prove it.

Paul did encounter Jesus (after His resurrection) and was a true champion for Jesus Christ. Peter acknowledged Paul thusly:

Prove it.

[freedom13]

loser:

That is very true (when you ascribe the counterfeit religion calling itself Christianity as the "Christianity as we know it today". However, there is a "small flock" which is the true Christian church which Jesus did indeed found. Paul, indeed, was a member of that flock.

So Christianity as we know it today is like the Antichrist?

[loser]

Prove it...Prove it...Prove it...

I followed your link (Yes), Zhavric. Does it concern you that the site is more disingenuous and pretentious than a televangelist trying to coax the last dollar out of some poor widow's pocket? If you have actually read further than the first page (though just a few sentences should suffice), there's not much sense in trying to debate with you. Indoctrination comes from many sources but I have never seen any more pernicious than that. In lieu of proof, I guess people will believe what they WANT to believe.

Santa Claus is make-believe.

Can I prove it?

No.

Do I need to?

For some, perhaps. For most (people with reason), no.

It's not about proof, Z. It's about reason. If you don't accept what I have to say, if it sounds unreasonable to you, that's okay. I don't need to convince you otherwise. Wisdom is known of her children. Let each person come to the best conclusion that they can.

You see, the truth is that proof is virtually non-existent. People spout out lofty platitudes all the time as if they were undeniable truths when, in reality, they are not. It's about reasonable doubt (or belief). Forget evidence, forget proof. Gather as much data and supposition as you can and apply reason to the best of your ability. In the end, that's all you've got.

Now, I could provide other writings and other reasonings that corroborate what I surmise but so can you. It's just what your linked site does, also.

It's belief and not proof. It's reason and not evidence.

If proof was available, wouldn't all reasonable people come to the same conclusion?

If I had proof, you'd know that I was right and you wouldn't fight it so.

So Christianity as we know it today is like the Antichrist?

Exactly so! Even the very first apostles and, in fact, even Jesus knew that Satan was there from the beginning trying to destroy the Church:

(GW) Luk 22:31 Then the Lord said, "Simon, Simon, listen! Satan has demanded to have you apostles for himself. He wants to separate you from me as a farmer separates wheat from husks.

(CEV) Mat 7:21 Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in.
Mat 7:22 On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, "We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles."
Mat 7:23 But I will tell them, "I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!"

Mat 13:19 The seeds that fell along the road are the people who hear the message about the kingdom, but don't understand it. Then the evil one comes and snatches the message from their hearts.

(GW) 2Ti 4:2 Be ready to spread the word whether or not the time is right. Point out errors, warn people, and encourage them. Be very patient when you teach.
2Ti 4:3 A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear.
2Ti 4:4 People will refuse to listen to the truth and turn to myths.

(GNB) 1Pe 5:8 Be alert, be on watch! Your enemy, the Devil, roams around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.

(ESV) 2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

(GNB) Jud 1:4 For some godless people have slipped in unnoticed among us, persons who distort the message about the grace of our God in order to excuse their immoral ways, and who reject Jesus Christ, our only Master and Lord. Long ago the Scriptures predicted the condemnation they have received.


I probably missed some of the best examples but that should suffice. Well, I should add one more, the qualifier:

(ASV) Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

[Tycoon]

If proof was available, wouldn't all reasonable people come to the same conclusion?

You consider yourself a reasonable person I have no doubt. But you are not earning your title of "Logic User". There is in fact a lot of proof that God does not exist, and yet the majority of people (reasonable or not) come to the conclusion that He does.

Let me ask you something Loser, were you raised Christian?

[Piscean]

Although the "whole world" is deceived by counterfeit religions (including the one called 'Christianity'), God has reserved "a small flock" unto Himself who are not deceived, being led by His holy Spirit.

That explains why my spiritual growth has come alive so much sinse God led me away from all the teachings of man:-)

[Piscean]

You consider yourself a reasonable person I have no doubt. But you are not earning your title of "Logic User". There is in fact a lot of proof that God does not exist, and yet the majority of people (reasonable or not) come to the conclusion that He does.

So now that you've said this I'd like to know what you call "proof" that God doesn't exist?

[Piscean]

Wow how compelling!!

[LOGAN]

When anyone must denounce any part of the "cannonized" Holy Scriptures to propagate their own "professed" religion, that obviously does not adhere to the teachings of what has been revealed in the Word which they are trying to 'discredit".....THE RED FLAGS OF DECEPTION fly high, and if any falls beneath this battle flag it is due to their own GULLIBILITY. One must look at the absurd claims to see if in fact they are justified. 1. Paul was not a real apostle, as he was self appointed and not recognized by the other apostles as such. Examine the scriptures to see what others had to say about the apostle Paul -- Acts 9:15-16, Luke records (not Paul) what the prophet "Ananias" was told about Paul from the Holy Spirit of truth, "But the Lord said unto him, GO THEY WAY: FOR HE IS A CHOSEN VESSEL UNTO ME, TO BEAR MY NAME BEFORE THE GENTILES, AND KINGS, AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL: "

This commission from the Christ Himself was confirmed by the other apostles,".....and when James, Cehpas(Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised." -- Gal. 2:7-9

And of course the direct words of Peter warning others that the writings of Paul were indeed considered divine scriptures -- ll Peter 3:15-16. Now it is very easy to see that when Peter who held the keys to the kingdom of God here on earth, and was told that whatever he loosed on earth would also be loosed in Heaven and whatever he bound here on earth would also be bound in Heaven, with these words of scriptures indeed sealed Paul with the righteous title of Apostle.

Next, we address the claims of just what Paul had to gain by trying to fabricate such a deception. Paul/Saul, when he was a practicing member of the Jewish faith was on the fast track to becoming one of the greatest authority figures ever to make up the Jewish religious hierarchy -- Acts 8:1-4, as he was one of the men responsible for killing and sending the membership of the Christian church to prison. All this with the position of authority that he held as Saul, was power, wealth, and fame within the Jewish hierarchy. Now, we are expected to believe that he volunteered to give this position up, to go about walking all around the middle east, living hand to mouth, being jailed, shipwrecked, suffering snake bites, stonings, life threats, and eventually laying down his life in the name of Christ Jesus? Yes, one can certainly see why he would fake a religion and give up all his earthly comforts and pleasures in continuance of propagating such a deception.

But the most obvious fact that denounces such ABSURD claims are the words of God found, not in the New Testament, but in the Old Writings,"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shat keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."-- Psalm 12:6-7. Now, we are expected to believe that God is not capable of keeping his promise as He allows fallible man to corrupt that which He promises will never see corruption? Well, the proof is in the pudding, form the time that this "fake", Paul, began spreading the Word, this same word has grown to allow 1/3 the worlds population to enter that same kingdom here on earth that he (Paul) was professing. If in fact this was false doctrine, it would have come to nothing. For indeed, the living God is sure to keep His promises -- Hebrews 6:17-18, ll Samuel 7:28, Titus 1:1-2. Logan