Anarchism and Atheism

[grandpa]

Anarchism and atheism have much in common, please read some of these quotes and respond:

"Every power is animated by the wish to be the only power, because in the nature of its being it deems itself absolute and consequently opposes any bar which reminds it of the limits of its influence. Power is active consciousness of authority. Like God, it cannot endure any other God beside it. This is the reason why a struggle for hegemony immediately breaks out as soon as different power groups appear together or have to keep inside of territories adjacent to one another. Once a state has attained the strength which permits it to make decisive use of its power it will not rest satisfied until it has achieved dominance over all neighbouring states and has subjected them to its will. While not yet strong enough for this it is willing to compromise, but as soon as it feels itself powerful it will not hesitate to use any means to extend its rule, for the will to power follows its own laws, which it may mask but can never deny."

Rudolf Rocker, NATIONALISM AND CULTURE, Book 1, part III.
The Middle Ages: Church and State
Nationalism and Culture

If God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him.
-- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State (1882), in seeming response to Voltaire's "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
-- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State (1871), quoted from The Columbia Dictionary Of Quotations

People go to church for the same reasons they go to a tavern: to stupefy themselves, to forget their misery, to imagine themselves, for a few minutes anyway, free and happy.
-- Mikhail Bakunin, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

Religion is a collective insanity.
-- Mikhail Bakunin, from Rufus K Noyes, Views of Religion, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

The idea of god implies the abdication of human reason & justice; it is the most decisive negation of human liberty & necessarily ends in the enslavement of manking both in theory & practice.
He who desires to worship god must harbor no childish illusions about the matter but bravely renounce his liberty & humanity.
-- Mikhail Bakunin, his classic statement on the matter

All religions, with their gods, their demi-gods, and their prophets, their messiahs and their saints, were created by the prejudiced fancy of men who had not attained the full development and full possession of their faculties.
-- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State (1871), quoted from Emma Goldman, "The Philosophy of Atheism" (1916)


Women need not always keep their mouths shut and their wombs open.
-- Emma Goldman, words for which she was sent to prison, according to Margaret Anderson, editor of The Little Review, quoted from Annie Laurie Gaylor, Women Without Superstition, p. 382

Christianity is most admirably adapted to the training of slaves, to the perpetuation of a slave society; in short, to the very conditions confronting us to-day.... The rulers of the earth have realized long ago what potent poison inheres in the Christian religion. That is the reason they foster it; that is why they leave nothing undone to instill it into the blood of the people. They know only too well that the subtleness of the Christian teachings is a more powerful protection against rebellion and discontent than the club or the gun.
-- Emma Goldman, "The Failure of Christianity," in Goldman's Mother Earth journal, April, 1913

Mankind has been punished long and heavily for having created its gods; nothing but pain and persecution have been man's lot since gods began. There is but one way out of this blunder: Man must break his fetters which have chained him to the gates of heaven and hell, so that he can begin to fashion out of his reawakened and illumined consciousness a new world upon earth.
-- Emma Goldman, "The Philosophy of Atheism," in Goldman's Mother Earth journal, February, 1916

Everywhere and always, since its very inception, Christianity has turned the earth into a vale of tears; always it has made of life a weak, diseased thing, always it has instilled fear in man, turning him into a dual being, whose life energies are spent in the struggle between body and soul. In decrying the body as something evil, the flesh as the tempter to everything that is sinful, man has mutilated his being in the vain attempt to keep his soul pure, while his body rotted away from the injuries and tortures inflicted upon it.
The Christian religion and morality extols the glory of the Hereafter, and therefore remains indifferent to the horrors of the earth. Indeed, the idea of self-denial and of all that makes for pain and sorrow is its test of human worth, its passport to the entry into heaven.
-- Emma Goldman, "The Failure of Christianity," in Goldman's Mother Earth journal, April, 1913

[Jack]

Nice quotes about atheism's attitude toward theism, but I fail to see the similarity between the repudiation of a belief system and anarchy, a political philosophy. Could you expand on what you see as similarities?

[Branden]

I don't believe that there is a necessary connection between the two. Of course it is true that some atheists will be anarchists, vice versa, and that some will have similar views; however, I believe that would be true of nearly any two systems of ideas (that aren't overtly contradictory).

I think that attempting to connect the two is a fallacy of defining by the non-essentials. Atheism is simply the disbelief in the supernatural, and anarchism is simply the belief that a state shouldn't exist. Basically, the argument that is attempted to be constructed through the quotes is that atheism and anarchism aren't what I previously mentioned, but merely the rejection of power, or the rejection of collectivism, or this-or-that. Not only is that an attempt to define by non-essentials, but I believe that it is empirically false as well: many atheists are statists (Stalin), and many anarchists are religious.

Moreover, I think that it is important to remember that atheism (and to some degree anarchism) isn't a comprehensive world view, but are only a very small portion of it. The remainder of the world view isn't necessarily connected to that small portion.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Branden I don't believe that there is a necessary connection between the two. Of course it is true that some atheists will be anarchists, vice versa, and that some will have similar views; however, I believe that would be true of nearly any two systems of ideas (that aren't overtly contradictory).

It is true that there is no absolute link between the two. In fact, Rudolf Rocker noted that "atheism...need by no means be associated with libertarian ideas. It has a libertarianm influence only when it recognizes the inner connection between religion and politics in their utmost profundity, and finds for the possessors of temporal power no greater justification than for the authority of God."

However, as the Anarchist FAQ explains:

...why do so many anarchists embrace atheism? The simplest answer is that most anarchists are atheists because it is a logical extension of anarchist ideas. If anarchism is the rejection of illegitimate authorities, then it follows that it is the rejection of the so-called Ultimate Authority, God. Anarchism is grounded in reason, logic, and scientific thinking, not religious thinking. Anarchists tend to be sceptics, and not believers. Most anarchists consider the Church to be steeped in hypocrisy and the Bible a work of fiction, riddled with contradictions, absurdities and horrors. It is notorious in its debasement of women and its sexism is infamous. Yet men are treated little better. Nowhere in the bible is there an acknowledgement that human beings have inherent rights to life, liberty, happiness, dignity, fairness, or self-government. In the bible, humans are sinners, worms, and slaves (figuratively and literally, as it condones slavery). God has all the rights, humanity is nothing.

Infoshop.org - An Anarchist FAQ - A.2 What does anarchism stand for?

I think a little bit about me might help the discussion:
With some things I am relatively closed-minded, and religion is one of them. And, honestly, I'm getting increasingly close-minded regarding authoritarian ideals. I have had contact with other philosophies and all fall short of basic libertarian principles. It would be wonderful if authoritarianism ended up working, IF we could bring back everyone and everything it has ruthelessly destroyed. You see, because I realize that's not likely to happen, I don't place faith in the miracles commonly promised by authority, nor do I wish to see any class of rulers. That's why, as far as I'm concerned, atheism and anarchism are nearly synonymous with each other.

To quote Rocker again:

Once the victor has tasted the sweets of power and learned to value the economic advantages which it gives, he is easily intoxicated by his practice of power. Every success spurs him on to new adventures, for it is in the nature of all power that its possessors constantly strive to widen the sphere of their influence and to impose their yoke on weaker peoples. Thus gradually a separate class evolved whose occupation was war and rulership over others. But no power can in the long run rely on brute force alone. Brutal force may be the immediate means for the subjugation of men, but alone it is incapable of maintaining the rule of the individual or of a special caste over whole groups of humanity. For that more is needed; the belief of man in the inevitability of such power, the belief in its divinely willed mission. Such a belief is rooted deeply in man's religious feelings and gains power with tradition, for above the traditional hovers the radiance of religious concepts and mystical obligation. This is the reason why the victors frequently imposed their gods upon the vanquished, for they recognised very clearly that a unification of religious rites would further their own power. It usually mattered little to them if the gods of the vanquished continued to be on show so long as this was not dangerous to their leadership, and so long as the old gods were assigned a role subordinate to that of the new ones. But this could only happen when their priests favoured the rulership of the victors or themselves participated in the drive for political power, as often happened. Thus it is easy to prove the political influence on the later religious forms of the Babylonians, Chaldeans, Egyptians, Persians, Hindus, and many others. And just as easily can the famous monotheism of the Jews be traced to the struggle for the political unification of the arising monarchy. Religion and Politics

Grandpa h.

[Branden]

I agree that atheism and some degree of anarchism are both based upon rational principles; however, I'm hesitant to make a true connection between the two because people aren't necessarily rational on every issue.

On the other issue that Rocker touches on--that is, religion as a tool of political power--I believe that is a very interesting, yet separate, topic of discussion.

[sdbest]

For what it's worth Christian anarchism

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: sdbest For what it's worth Christian anarchism

Isn't this an oximoron? Kind of like "Postal Service" and "Jumbo Shrimp"?

[grandpa]

Quote by: ItsDarts Isn't this an oximoron? Kind of like "Postal Service" and "Jumbo Shrimp"?

That's what I thought (and, to a degree, still think)...but I actually do know a Christian anarchist.

Grandpa h.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: grandpa That's what I thought (and, to a degree, still think)...but I actually do know a Christian anarchist. Grandpa h.

Seems like a contradiction in terms to me. How do you reject authority and stil maintain there is an "ultimate" authority and be considered consistent? Actually it would seem to be a theocracy if anything.

[Domino]

A Christian anarchist might not believe that God wants authority, and that he chooses not to exercise what he has. That is to say, perhaps he believes in an anarchist God :)

[Morality Games]

A Christian anarchist would probably believe God wills each individual be their own moral authority on earth. Not a rejection of his morality, but an unwillingness to allow theocratic hierarchies to mandate standard interpretations of biblical text and regulate the community's activities. God still judges the individual in the afterlife, however. In effect, all freedom, responsibility, and powers are passed shifted from the church to individuals.

A Christian anarchist might not believe that God wants authority, and that he chooses not to exercise what he has. That is to say, perhaps he believes in an anarchist God :)

No, an anarchist Christian would believe God wants an anarchist society to exist because he wishes for people to obey his commandments on an individual-to-God basis, not an individual-state / church- God basis. A Christian anarchist could rationalize that a secular government shouldn't exist either because it can interfere with the individual's receptiveness to Christian morality.

[grandpa]

Quote by: ItsDarts Seems like a contradiction in terms to me. How do you reject authority and stil maintain there is an "ultimate" authority and be considered consistent?

That fundamental contradiction is really the basis for this thread.
Of course, there are important and subtle
considerations to this question which make it more difficult to understand.

Basically, my pointy was that a truly scientific, atheist thinker should be open to the essentials of anarchist thought. Obviously, a true-blue anarchist would question the idea that "Jesus is the ultimate authority," as would any atheist worthy of the name.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Morality Games A Christian anarchist would probably believe God wills each individual be their own moral authority on earth. Not a rejection of his morality, but an unwillingness to allow theocratic hierarchies to mandate standard interpretations of biblical text and regulate the community's activities.

Of course, atheists would counter that it is people on earth participating
in such grassroots community activities, not God.

Grandpa h.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: grandpa That fundamental contradiction is really the basis for this thread. Of course, there are important and subtle considerations to this question which make it more difficult to understand. Basically, my pointy was that a truly scientific, atheist thinker should be open to the essentials of anarchist thought. Obviously, a true-blue anarchist would question the idea that "Jesus is the ultimate authority," as would any atheist worthy of the name. Grandpa h.

I would agree with this if Atheism was a true world view, but it's not, its just a lack of belief in gods. What ever else an atheist thinks, is irrelevent to atheism. Many atheists are Buddhists. Some atheists will go only as far as to say that the Gods of various holy texts don't exist, but as far as if some prime mover of the universe with currently unknown attributes exist, they may claim agnosticm, they just can't know. Just like with our current heirarchial power structure of government, I can see plenty of problems with anarchy and the ability to abuse it by those less scrupulous. I know how to deal with our current system and prefer to keep it. If I don't like something, I can petition to have it changed or move to an area that suits me more. For instance, I'd never move to a dry county because I think people have a right to drink if they want too. I consider myself to be pretty scientific in nature. I've always excelled in the subjects of science and even at my ripe old age, it never ceases to amaze me. I only wish I could see what will be around in another hundred years.

[grandpa]

Quote by: ItsDarts I would agree with this if Atheism was a true world view, but it's not, its just a lack of belief in gods. What ever else an atheist thinks, is irrelevent to atheism.

I actually do tend to see atheism as a general worldview, in that it rejects the "divine authority" of any God, favoring instead natural explanations. Like any general worldview, it has innumerable additional views related to each thinker, but it does function as its own wide lens through which to see the world.

It ultimately comes down to the whole "materialist versus spiritualst" argument, or the debate over whether or not there is a 'REAL.' Atheism, the absence of belief in any gods, is by its very nature more hinged on the real than it is on the unreal.

Grandpa h.

[Morality Games]

Quote by: grandpa I actually do tend to see atheism as a general worldview, in that it rejects the "divine authority" of any God, favoring instead natural explanations. Like any general worldview, it has innumerable additional views related to each thinker, but it does function as its own wide lens through which to see the world. It ultimately comes down to the whole "materialist versus spiritualst" argument, or the debate over whether or not there is a 'REAL.' Atheism, the absence of belief in any gods, is by its very nature more hinged on the real than it is on the unreal. Grandpa h.

Atheism implicates other views (aka, naturalism) and is a componet of a worldview, but it would be sad if it functioned as a world view in-itself, as the atheist-only being's whole existence would revolve around how there is no God.

It is best to consider atheists in general as humanists.

Humanism (life stance) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[grandpa]

On the Christian anarchists side, I just rediscovered a relevant doctrine: antinomianism

Antinomianism (from the Greek αντι, "against" + νομος, "law"), or lawlessness (in the Greek Bible: ανομια,[1] which is "unlawful"), in theology, is the idea that members of a particular religious group are under no obligation to obey the laws of ethics or morality as presented by religious authorities Antinomianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grandpa h.

[Sejita]

I don't really see the similarities between the two, but I don't know enough (I only know a small bit) about anarchism to compare the two. While they have similar motives (the complete rejection of an ideal), I don't see any similarities beyond that.