Hypothetical: would you clone yourself to save yourself?

[MplsBison]

Here's the hypothetical:


a new procedure is created whereby people with terminal diseases can have themselves cloned and the clone will not have the disease. Moreover, the procedure allows every memory and learned behavor/skill/whatever that is in your brain to be copied to the clone's brain. IE, the clone will behave exactly as you would behave.


Your clone can go on as you living your life, providing for your family, working at your job, etc. and no one can possibly detect the difference.




But the real you will still die from your disease.




Would you do it?

[Rainbow]

Quote by: MplsBison Hypothetical: would you clone yourself to save yourself ? Here's the hypothetical: A new procedure is created whereby people with terminal diseases can have themselves cloned and the clone will not have the disease. Moreover, the procedure allows every memory and learned behavor/skill/whatever that is in your brain to be copied to the clone's brain. IE, the clone will behave exactly as you would behave. Your clone can go on as you living your life, providing for your family, working at your job, etc. and no one can possibly detect the difference. But the real you will still die from your disease. Would you do it?

I would do it, under 1 condition, only :
- I want to be present in the day when Homo Sapiens discovers the source and/or origin of the very first atom creation

[Morality Games]

Right now? Probably. The prospect of dying so suddenly when there is so much left I want to accomplish scares me enough that I would leap at the opportunity to leave some remnant or other version of myself on earth doing as I would in its place.

Also, if eternalism is true, and there are really an infinite numbers of instants in space-time and the "me" each version of myself understands to be "itself" is actually an abstract concept designating many me's from seperate moments, it can be argued that the clone's relationship to me is not all that different from my relationship to my other selves in instants past and future -- after all, commonalities aside, we would all be physically distinct entities.

[HelioPrime]

Strange, I feel like this is a movie plot somehow relating to the Governor of California.....

As for the OP: No, people die enough everyday why add to further overpopulation.

[Halofan48]

O, which movie with the Governator are you thinking of?

[HelioPrime]

Can't think of the name/ to lazy to search it out. The cloning one where Arnold is a clone and doesn't find out until the end.

[MplsBison]

Yes it's similar to "The 6th Day".

[Zhavric]

Quote by: MplsBison Here's the hypothetical: a new procedure is created whereby people with terminal diseases can have themselves cloned and the clone will not have the disease. Moreover, the procedure allows every memory and learned behavor/skill/whatever that is in your brain to be copied to the clone's brain. IE, the clone will behave exactly as you would behave. Your clone can go on as you living your life, providing for your family, working at your job, etc. and no one can possibly detect the difference. But the real you will still die from your disease. Would you do it?

Of course not. That clone wouldn't be me. I'd be dead. People deserve the truth.

Alternately, I'd be willing to harvest organs from the clone to save my own life. I'd also have sex with my clone. But not in that order.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: Zhavric That clone wouldn't be me. I'd be dead.

It would be impossible for anyone other than you to know that.

I'd be willing to harvest organs from the clone to save my own life.

I don't think it works like that.


For example, say you have brain cancer.


There is no such thing as brain transplantation.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: MplsBison It would be impossible for anyone other than you to know that.

Unless of course I tell people that there's a clone of me. Or the clone tells them.

I don't think it works like that. For example, say you have brain cancer. There is no such thing as brain transplantation.

There's also no such thing as fully body cloning with memory. As long as we're "what if-ing" why not?

Incidentally, we really need to work on your conception of "possible".

[MplsBison]

Quote by: Zhavric Or the clone tells them.

The clone would not know he was a clone. He would think he was you.


Only you could spill the beans.

There's also no such thing as fully body cloning with memory.

It is my hypothetical. You only get two choices: make a clone and then die or just die.


Start a new thread if you're going to talk about something else.

[caphis]

Quote by: MplsBison The clone would not know he was a clone. He would think he was you. Only you could spill the beans.

So? It still wouldn't be me. To pass him off as me to my family and friends would be an outright lie. That act alone has questionable ethics.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: MplsBison The clone would not know he was a clone. He would think he was you.

No. No he wouldn't. Please read carefully when you debate:

Moreover, the procedure allows every memory and learned behavor/skill/whatever that is in your brain to be copied to the clone's brain. IE, the clone will behave exactly as you would behave

.

The op clearly states the clone has every memory of mine including the decision to create a clone. If I know that I have a disease, know that I had decided to create a clone, and know that I no longer have the disease then I can deduce that I am the clone.

It is my hypothetical.

Right. And you stated:

For example, say you have brain cancer.


There is no such thing as brain transplantation.

Presumably, there are other organs that can be harvested. Granted, I'm changing the context a bit, but this is volconvo and people have been doing that for years.

[Morality Games]

The philosophy of time plays into this question heavily. Remembering what I said about eternalism, it suddenly strikes me that, if presentism is true (only the present exists, past and future are illusions of language, imaginary fictions), then we are all liars right now for passing ourselves off for the same being we perceived ourselves to be a day before.

I am going to state both positions again as clearly as possible.

Eternalism states past, present, and future exist at the same time because all instants are taking place at the same time in four-dimensional space-time. So, if I say I am the same Morality Games who was on this board yesterday, then I am technically lying, as those Morality Games are still suspended in their respective instants.

Presentism states past and future are illusions and only the present exists because only one instant is taking place in three-dimensional space-time. So, if I say I am the same Morality Games who was on this board yesterday, then I am technically lying, as those Morality Games stopped existing in the span of an instant.

The only common features between me and those other Morality Games are the same ones between me and the clone. Aka, memories, behavioral habits, abilities, style, etc.

So how is the relationship between the clone and myself different from past incarnations and myself?

Based on appearances, it looks like either eternalism or presentism must be true. One or the other.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: Zhavric The op clearly states the clone has every memory of mine including the decision to create a clone.

My intention was that the clone would believe it was you and not know of your exsistance.


Go off that.

there are other organs that can be harvested.

There will be no harvesting in this thread.


You either make the clone and then die or you just die.


That's it.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: caphis So? It still wouldn't be me. To pass him off as me to my family and friends would be an outright lie. That act alone has questionable ethics.

True.


But I also think that saving your family, work, etc. from the grief of losing you has merit.


Perhaps moreso than the lie of presenting your clone as you?

[MplsBison]

Quote by: Morality Games The philosophy of time plays into this question heavily. Remembering what I said about eternalism, it suddenly strikes me that, if presentism is true (only the present exists, past and future are illusions of language, imaginary fictions), then we are all liars right now for passing ourselves off for the same being we perceived ourselves to be a day before. I am going to state both positions again as clearly as possible. Eternalism states past, present, and future exist at the same time because all instants are taking place at the same time in four-dimensional space-time. So, if I say I am the same Morality Games who was on this board yesterday, then I am technically lying, as those Morality Games are still suspended in their respective instants. Presentism states past and future are illusions and only the present exists because only one instant is taking place in three-dimensional space-time. So, if I say I am the same Morality Games who was on this board yesterday, then I am technically lying, as those Morality Games stopped existing in the span of an instant. The only common features between me and those other Morality Games are the same ones between me and the clone. Aka, memories, behavioral habits, abilities, style, etc. So how is the relationship between the clone and myself different from past incarnations and myself? Based on appearances, it looks like either eternalism or presentism must be true. One or the other.

There is also the philosophy that the past and present exist while the future does not.

[caphis]

Quote by: MplsBison There will be no harvesting in this thread. You either make the clone and then die or you just die. That's it.

If you can skydive in the smoking thread, we can harvest in here.

I vote to harvest.

True. But I also think that saving your family, work, etc. from the grief of losing you has merit. Perhaps moreso than the lie of presenting your clone as you?

No. If there's one constant in lies, it's that the truth always comes out in the end, somehow. People have been dealing with grief since the dawn of time. Certainly my death will be devestating, but my family will move on and pick up anyway.

I can't imagine the feelings that would ensue if I passed a clone off as me before I died, and they found out 20 years down the road.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: caphis If there's one constant in lies, it's that the truth always comes out in the end, somehow.

So long as you don't tell anyone, it is impossible for anyone to know the difference.

[caphis]

Quote by: MplsBison So long as you don't tell anyone, it is impossible for anyone to know the difference.

This is just becoming an absurd hypothetical, and a person's answers to it won't be anymore telling about their ethical values than their hair color.

Anyway, regardless of whether or not they found out, no. I wouldn't. I'd know.