Muslims nations: Defame Islam, get sued?

[Jack]

If the Organization of the Islamic conference gets its way, soon we won't dare debate Islam for fear of being sued.

The Muslim world has created a battle plan to defend its religion from political cartoonists and bigots. Concerned about what they see as a rise in the defamation of Islam, leaders of the world's Muslim nations are considering taking legal action against those that slight their religion or its sacred symbols. It was a key issue during a two-day summit that ended Friday in this western Africa capital. The Muslim leaders are attempting to demand redress from nations like Denmark, which allowed the publication of cartoons portraying the Prophet Muhammad in 2006 and again last month, to the fury of the Muslim world. Though the legal measures being considered have not been spelled out, the idea pits many Muslims against principles of freedom of speech enshrined in the constitutions of numerous Western governments. "I don't think freedom of expression should mean freedom from blasphemy," said Senegal's President Abdoulaye Wade, the chairman of the 57-member Organization of the Islamic Conference. "There can be no freedom without limits." Delegates were given a voluminous report by the OIC that recorded anti-Islamic speech and actions from around the world. The report concludes that Islam is under attack and that a defense must be mounted. "Muslims are being targeted by a campaign of defamation, denigration, stereotyping, intolerance and discrimination," charged Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, the secretary general of the group. The report urges the creation of a "legal instrument" to crack down on defamation of Islam. Some delegates point to laws in Europe criminalizing the denial of the Holocaust and other anti-Semitic rhetoric. They also point to articles within various U.N. charters that condemn discrimination based on religion and argue that these should be ramped up.

(Source)

The story does include a few voices of reason;

The International Humanist and Ethical Union in Geneva released a statement accusing the Islamic states of attempting to limit freedom of expression and of attempting to misuse the U.N. Human Rights Watch said in a statement that objectionable depictions of the Prophet Muhammad do not "give them the right under international human rights law to insist that others abide by their views." "My general view would be that the confrontational approach is one my country would avoid," said Bangladeshi Foreign Minister Iftekhar Chowdhruy. Bangladesh is 90 percent Muslim.

While the American representative managed to speak without saying much;

While the Muslim world worries about the image of Islam in the West, the U.S. envoy to the OIC attended the summit to try to tackle the thorny question of America's image among Muslim states. Sada Cumber calls his campaign the "soft power" of the U.S. — an effort to find common ground with Muslim nations by championing universal values the U.S. holds dear like religious tolerance and freedom of speech. "America has a deep respect for the religion of Islam," Cumber told The Associated Press. "The freedom of faith that we exercise, that we enjoy in America, that is also a very important aspect of the American core values. Anyone who wants to practice any faith is never stopped or discouraged."

I agree with Ed Brayton at Scienceblogs;

An attempt that will fail, but the fact that they want to attempt it is all I need to know. No, you will not do away with our right to criticize your religion, whether you attempt to do so by suing or by blowing things up. You do not have a right not to be offended by the views of others. Period. End of discussion.

[lindsay7]

This attempt better fail. This world is already screwy enough! No more!

I think a big part of the problem is that in those European countries, they've let in a lot of poor, uneducated Muslim immigrants from Africa, etc, to try to build up the workforce because of the nations declining population. But now, the economy has slowed and they've got all these angry Muslim immigrants with no jobs. Thus, the Muslim riots in France and whatnot.

That's my understanding of the situation. And now the Muslims there want to get rid of free speech. s***.

Can everyone become Protectionist Libertarians now? I really believe that if our world leaders didn't destroy our economies for their own personal gain (corporate globalization), we wouldn't have nearly so many problems. Free speech doesnt last in populations made up of the desperate and poor. Anyways i'm babbling and way off topic. Weeeee!!!!

[Matt W]

Quote by: lindsay7 I think a big part of the problem is that in those European countries, they've let in a lot of poor, uneducated Muslim immigrants from Africa, etc, to try to build up the workforce because of the nations declining population. But now, the economy has slowed and they've got all these angry Muslim immigrants with no jobs. Thus, the Muslim riots in France and whatnot.

Incorrect. The riots in France were 2nd generation, 3rd generation kids pissed off at racism and segregation. Think the LA riots, but Algerians instead of African-Americans.

And the vast majority of African immigrants I've seen over here are hard-core, evangelical-style Christians. Just something you might wish to consider.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Matt W Incorrect. The riots in France were 2nd generation, 3rd generation kids pissed off at racism and segregation. Think the LA riots, but Algerians instead of African-Americans. And the vast majority of African immigrants I've seen over here are hard-core, evangelical-style Christians. Just something you might wish to consider.

Ahh, good to hear the situation from someone who lives there. I didn't think about racism and segregation, though I think that the economy and lack of jobs plays a part too, does it not?

I didn't know that most of the African immigrants are hard-core, evangelical-style Christians. I like to hear that.
Christian missionaries come back and speak of the persecution and hardships, and unbelievable strength and faith of people in developing countries. I'm sure they would put my weak faith to shame.

[phoenix_fire]

So, Ish, in other words, they want to become Scientology.

[loser]

"There can be no freedom without limits."

While I agree that there SHOULDN'T be, there definitely CAN be.

"Muslims are being targeted by a campaign of defamation, denigration, stereotyping, intolerance and discrimination," charged Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, the secretary general of the group.

And this makes them different than any other group (Christians, blacks, Jews, Americans, Republicans, gays, etc.) exactly how?

Some delegates point to laws in Europe criminalizing the denial of the Holocaust and other anti-Semitic rhetoric.

Stupid begets stupid.

I really believe that if our world leaders didn't destroy our economies for their own personal gain (corporate globalization), we wouldn't have nearly so many problems.

Of course, if Jesus Christ came back and cast Muhammad into the Lake of Fire as the False Prophet and, therefore, ALL Muslims converted to Christianity AND His return made believers out of all the atheists AND caused all of the followers of all of the other false religions to convert PLUS He took away individual freedom and ruled with an "iron rod", that might solve the world's problems, too...

...or NOT.

After all, people are quite disobedient, aren't they?

Incorrect. The riots in France were 2nd generation, 3rd generation kids pissed off at racism and segregation. Think the LA riots, but Algerians instead of African-Americans.

Also incorrect. The riots are the results of a too-liberal immigration policy resulting in cultural clashes due to the bigotry inherent in all humanity and the too-liberal nurturing (and/or lack, thereof) of the country's youth, coupled with the disparity between the Über rich and the abject poor.

In the war between the haves and the have-nots, France is far from being a 'leader' in oppressive regimes; certainly, it's no worse than America.

Ah, good to hear the situation from someone who lives there.

Well, the English can hardly be relied upon to objectively judge France. I am shocked, though, to hear of the preeminence of Christianity among the Africans in Great Britain. I always supposed that the majority were Muslims.

I'm sure they would put my weak faith to shame.

Perhaps, but your faith will be sorely put to the test here.

Grow strong.

[Ghumanto]

1. Muslims countries ( except a few ) are run by Moronic rulers . These brutal rulers depict a picture of Islam which is nothing more than a medieval ritual .

2. The Prophet pardoned all his enemies ( even when they threw stones and broke his teeth ) . So, can't understand why some morons in Denmark has to riot for some stupid cartoons .

3. OIC - we call it Organisation of Impotent Countries. Thse countries are doing nothing but getting together in lavish summit and talk . Everyday we see the brutal oppression and killing of the Palestinians by the Israelis , the power struggle in Lebanon , the plight in Darfur , the forgotten massacars in Indian Kashmir, the annahilation of a whole generation in Chechnya , the continued but never highlighted ethnic cleansing of the Rohingyas in Myanmar .............

4. I remember during the 80s - our President request OIC to arrange oil in lower than normal price so that poor islamic countries can take some breathe. None of the Oil giants gave it a consideration.

5. The problem with modern day Muslims - because they are all reading the Koran but didn't tried to understand it all! So, the Mullahs are brainwashing them. On the otherhand since the countries are under brutal rulers - there is no significant engagment in research and developement.

So, there is a wide spread inferiority feeling.
I can keep on writing about what we ( as young Muslims feel ) but perhaps you guys will be realise already how it hurts to be in muslims country.

[phoenix_fire]

Well, that may be. But it looks like your grievance should be with your own countrymen: not with non-Muslims and certainly not a matter to clutter Western courts.

[Ghumanto]

Yes ! I agree with you - to some extent .

Why Muslims are angry with the West - there has been a lot of discussion. Perhaps you can read the books by Edward Syed and the writings of Noam Chamsky .

I'm just an ordinary folk and so it is better not to write something so sensitive .

Specially you can read " Orientalism " and "Covering Islam " by Edward Syed.

[Tycoon]

Regarding the OP;

Why should Muslims care what any non-Muslims do? We don't believe in their religion, so already we are condemned in their eyes. As long as they don't take a part in this "defamation of Islam" then it shouldn't matter at all.

[Jack]

Why should Muslims care what any non-Muslims do?

Because they, like every theistic group, think their beliefs are the ultimate truth and reality for everyone. Non-believers are considered heathens and infidels as if we were members of their belief system. They can't grasp that they have no place inflicting their beliefs on the rest of the world, since they believe their opinions to be universal truths.

I find it the height of irony and hypocrisy that they cannot abide others disrespecting their beliefs while at the same time they have no respect for the beliefs, or lack thereof, of others.

[phoenix_fire]

I understand it entirely, if not condone it. Let's look at it from a different perspective: Evolution. It is the cosmology of choice for those who believe they are above believing in deities, from certain respected scientists to the teen that just wants to rebel against "authority". Most people that believe it have not actually studied it that much. They really couldn't tell you much beyond the $100-$300 range of questions on Jeopardy. And yet, as I have asserted before, people get downright dogmatic about it.

They believe it to be the ultimate truth and reality for everyone. And so they inflict their belief on others by ensuring that it is the only one that gets a hearing in taxpayer-funded schools. They have no respect for certain other beliefs, and try to ban them from the public view. Non-believers are considered unintelligent heathens. Respected scientists who have the audacity to point to legitimate failures of their beliefs are called infidels and drummed out of their jobs. This treatment is sometimes not unlike that of other faiths in Muslim-run countries *hint* *hint*.

Why should Muslims care what any non-Muslims do?

It's human nature. Everyone has these inclinations to make everyone else agree with them. The degree to which you can control these urges and present your side diplomatically, without resorting to force of the violent or judicial variety, is an indicator of how civilized you are.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Isherwood Because they, like every theistic group, think their beliefs are the ultimate truth and reality for everyone. Non-believers are considered heathens and infidels as if we were members of their belief system. They can't grasp that they have no place inflicting their beliefs on the rest of the world, since they believe their opinions to be universal truths. I find it the height of irony and hypocrisy that they cannot abide others disrespecting their beliefs while at the same time they have no respect for the beliefs, or lack thereof, of others.

The bold wouldn't make sense if your speaking about universalist unitarian or other general salvation faiths.

[Jack]

UU is not generally considered a theistic religion. I'm not sure what you consider "general salvation faiths", but I'm not aware of any religion based on the worship of a god that does not consider their beliefs to be universal truths applicable to everyone everywhere. I could be wrong about that and am willing to be enlightened.

[HelioPrime]

Sikhism is the worship as the universe as a central god. As such the worship of anything in the universe is worshiping god, so in a sense any other religion would also be still worshiping god.

And UU still hold services for various faith members, they have everything from christians, to wiccans, to simple agnostics. I would imagine atheists as well also.

[Ghumanto]

I request all of you to read the books of Edward Syed and Noam Chamsky to realise what is happening surrounding the Muslims .

Unless you read the stories of both sides - you can't come to a conclusion . The media is portraying one side . Did you ever bothered to know what the Muslims have to say ?

Please find some time and read ( Edward Syed and Noam Chamsky are not Muslim ) .

[Jack]

Did you ever bothered to know what the Muslims have to say ?

The thread topic is what they said.

[phoenix_fire]

Indeed. Much of the media here is actually sympathetic to Muslims, if, for the wrong reasons. And most of us here (myself included) are very careful to note when our remarks are directed toward the radical element, whomever that might be. We are very sympathetic for anyone who has to live under the tyranny of Islamic fundamentalism: especially the women. That is why we would very much prefer that we ourselves not be subjected to it.

[Kite]

How would this act hold up in a court? Our right to express our opinion is protected under the first amendment, the judge would throw it out in the first five minutes.

[phoenix_fire]

Not necessarily. There is precedent for limiting speech that is deemed hateful and/or incendiary. I'm not saying that such a limit is constitutional. To the contrary, actually. But I think that in the current climate of the courts and politics, they might get in the very least a very good hearing.

As a non sequitur, I think that Muslims would have fewer problems with alleged "defamation, denigration, stereotyping, intolerance and discrimination" from the West if their radicals would quit blowing up our sh*t.