Christian Wicca the Mother Goddess & God

[freedom13]

Christian Wicca combines Christian, Jewish, Muslim and Wiccan/Pagan beliefs. Common elements transplanted from Wicca include reincarnation and fertility; however, the key points of the divinity of Jehovah, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are retained from Christianity, often with a renewed emphasis on the latter two.

Christian Wicca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A significant set of issues within Christian Wicca, and between Christian Wiccans and other Christians, are the details of Christology, interpretation of the Bible, and the nature of the Trinity. According to historic Christian Doctrine, held by the majority of Christian movements and Churches, God is personified in a Trinity, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Mother Earth was commonly viewed as the Goddess of common Wicca in past eras, however this is changing as more Christian Wiccans become aware that Christ himself called the Church to be his Bride, and therefore Goddess. The earth is seen as the temporary home which Christ has given his Bride and Goddess to care for the spiritual children that are born into the family of Christ, which is cared for by his Bride. In Christian Wicca, the Holy Spirit is Feminine, and is thus may be regarded as the Great Mother Goddess, as spoken of in Traditional Christian thought. Many even take it farther, saying the Holy Spirit was embodied in the person of the Virgin Mary. Other Biblical passages believed to refer to the Holy Spirit as Feminine Goddess include the "Wisdom" character of the Book of Proverbs (see also the Gnostic concept of "Sophia"), the Bride of the Song of Solomon, and the female figures depicted in the Book of Revelation. Other Christian Wiccans dispense with complex Trinitarian arguments, and simply believe that Mother Earth and God are one and the same. This is a controversial concept in Christianity. (Leonardo Boff is a Roman Catholic theologian who has argued for the divine nature of the Earth, and was summarily dismissed from the priesthood.) Some worship the holy Goddess as Shekinah, or the radiance of God, an originally Jewish concept. A related concept used as a name for the Goddess is Matronit. Another of her names is the Greek goddess-name Sophia (literally meaning 'wisdom') or the Latin equivalent Sapienta. These beliefs depend on how closely the individual reads, studies and interprets the Biblical Scriptures, and what they gain from studying the original languages from which modern translations are derived. Another Christian Wiccan position is to embrace Mary as a goddess-figure, and Jesus Christ as their god-figure. Sometimes this 'Mary' is not the Virgin Mary of the Bible, and mother of Jesus, but Mary Magdalene or Mary of Bethany. According to traditions recounted in the book Holy Blood, Holy Grail, one of these women was said to be the wife of Jesus. Many also see evidence of a romantic link between Mary Magdalene and Jesus in the Nag Hammâdi Gnostic Scriptures. This is, however, not obvious. (There is no direct reference to her being his wife, for instance.) Another common practice of not only Christian Wiccans but simply Christian mystics is to embrace the idea of a Holy Quaternity. Most of the time this will include the God-the-Father and feminine Holy Spirit, but also will include Jesus as their Son God and Mary Magdalene or the Gnostic Sophia as their Daughter Goddess, or a worship of both a male and female trinity (Holy Trinity and Trinosophia).

What do you think about Christianity and Wicca being combined into one belief in God?

[lindsay7]

Well I don't think it's correct to worship the earth. It's a creation of god. And I don't think it's correct to worship Jesus' mother Mary as a goddess, she wasn't one.
I also don't think it's correct to worship the church as a goddess.
Or to worship the 'radiance of god' or the 'wisdom of god' as a supposed goddess.

Why not just cut right to the chase and worship God? Everything else is idol worship.

To each their own and all that jazz. I don't really care what they want to worship. Just giving my opinion.

[HelioPrime]

In the end it's all the same concept of a central god being worshiped.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same christian God is also the same God from every former mainstream religion past and present. The stories and names could all be just stories for each culture. Zeus and Allah could be the same figure. Pretty much what the unitarian U. viewpoint is.

The more I consider it that method of spreading religion makes more sense. Why would God allow the spread of conflicting religions is always a tough questions. But if you accept that all the names and stories might just be stories meant for each individual culture, while the God is the same... then it becomes much clearer. Just like in story of the tower of Babel, perhaps it wasn't just language that was spread around the earth, but multiple versions of the same doctrine.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: HelioPrime In the end it's all the same concept of a central god being worshiped.

You're right. I should be happy that these Wiccans have found Jesus.

I don't know much about Islam, but I think their bible speaks highly of Jesus. I don't think that Islam is a violent religion, I think that the honor killings and violent nonsense is misinterpretation. Much like the harsh old testament of our own Christian bible. Both are meant to be religions of peace.

On tv once I remember one Islam religious leader speaking about how their bible doesnt require Muslim women to be covered up, that it was meant only for the wife of their religious leader during church, but it got misinterpreted and applied to all women.

[loser]

I wouldn't be surprised if the same christian God is also the same God from every former mainstream religion past and present. The stories and names could all be just stories for each culture. Zeus and Allah could be the same figure. Pretty much what the unitarian U. viewpoint is. The more I consider it that method of spreading religion makes more sense. Why would God allow the spread of conflicting religions is always a tough questions. But if you accept that all the names and stories might just be stories meant for each individual culture, while the God is the same... then it becomes much clearer.

There has been much debate concerning the "lost years of Jesus". He disappears from scripture at the age of twelve and reappears at the age of thirty. There are accounts in the New World of the visitation of a 'man of God' and recorded visits by a 'foreigner' known as St. Issa in India and Tibet. It has often been suggested that Jesus went to study and learn from Buddhist and Hindu teachers. Although I believe that Jesus may well have traveled all around the world in those lost years (in some kind of advanced air and/or space craft), I am quite sure that He went not as student but as TEACHER! Buddhists and Hindus learned from Jesus and not vice-versa.

It makes sense.

[Technosoul]

And beold, a seed of truth was planted in the womb of my mind.

In secret I labored with it, and in due season I did give birth to it in my words, saying "behold this word, which is the child of the Most High.

Let Nature bear witness of this child-gift that wise men have so long awaited.

Yea, for this word will mature, and in due season she will open her pages so that all might enter her, and partake of her beauty, her comfort, and the sunshine of her love. For she is as a candle, as 7 candles, illuminating the darkness with her revelations.

[Morality Games]

I am quite sure that He went not as student but as TEACHER! Buddhists and Hindus learned from Jesus and not vice-versa.

What did he have to teach the Buddhists they didn't already know? Buddha set them up in a pretty sweet position. Plus, in spite of some ethical similarities, Christian and Buddhist metaphysics don't really stack.

I doubt the historical Jesus ever went that far east.

[freedom13]

Quote by: Technosoul And beold, a seed of truth was planted in the womb of my mind. In secret I labored with it, and in due season I did give birth to it in my words, saying "behold this word, which is the child of the Most High. Let Nature bear witness of this child-gift that wise men have so long awaited. Yea, for this word will mature, and in due season she will open her pages so that all might enter her, and partake of her beauty, her comfort, and the sunshine of her love. For she is as a candle, as 7 candles, illuminating the darkness with her revelations.

Well, accordingly to some viewpoints, many believe that the Magdala was the wife of Jesus and co-Messiah.

Christian Wicca: Theories on the Goddess Patriarchic dominance has been the mark of Christianity for so long, many Christians cannot even conceive the idea of a Mother-God cover-up! Several female Deities can lay claim to the title Christian Goddess. The Virgin Mary, the earthly Mother of Christ, is usually the first to spring to mind. Catholic-influenced Christian Wiccans more often than not recognize the Virgin Mary as Goddess, as she was the earthly manifestation of the female Deity, much as Jesus is often considered both the Father and the Son, or the male earthly manifestation of the male Deity. Many researchers and scholars also realize that the Holy Spirit, translated from the Greek word pneuma, is a feminine being. The Kabbalahists rationalize the names YHWH, Elohim, and Jehovah as the High Spirit, the female and male principles respectively. There is also the need to recognize the singular feminine name Eloah, Elat, and the Aramaic form Eloi which are derivatives of Elohim. There is the Goddess Sophia; the feminine noun Sophia being the Greek word for "Wisdom" (as opposed to gnosis for knowledge). Proverbs is a book dedicated to Sophia, mostly noted as the Spirit Wisdom, or Lady Wisdom. Wisdom is referred to as "She" throughout Proverbs. Then, there are those who look to the "Goddess in the Gospels," Mary Magdalene. Many believe that the Magdala was the wife of Jesus and co-Messiah or co-redemntrix with Him. Whether she was the wife of Jesus or not, the Gnostic Gospels definitely refer to her as the Companion of Jesus. There is also information that there was possibly a female child, after their unpublicized wedding. "Mary" is a Greek pronunciation of the Hebrew name Miriam or Miriamni. The primary Hebrew Goddess known as Asherah is one of the first consorts to be recognized as the Shekinah. In the book of Jeremiah, She is called the Queen of Heaven. Shehkinah is more of a title than a name. The Shekinah was the Goddesses or Divine Consort once worshipped by the Children of Israel as the wife of their chief god, Yahweh.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: freedom13 Well, accordingly to some viewpoints, many believe that the Magdala was the wife of Jesus and co-Messiah.

Those are all very interesting concepts / interpretations.

A number of my friends believe that Magdalene visited the Native Americans who called her the White Buffalo Calf Woman.

White Buffalo Calf Woman Brings First Pipe (Chasing Horse)

However many of the notions about worshipping a Goddess has nothing to do with an actual person. But came about due to names such as Mother Nature. And the manner of worship is totally different then how Christians worship God or Jesus.

However some of the pagan riturals were copycatted by the early Jews.

The Christians templated many of the pagan holidays with Chirstian holidays. Many of the most famous churches in the old world were built directly on top of places held sacred by the pagans.

Mother Earth and Father Sun, and the spirit of life that is in all things such as the trees and animals. And the spirits in the winds, waters, fires, and earth.

What more info?

[Century 25]

It all boils down to "worshiping" various arrangements of atoms. It would be laughable - but.. there are World Population Clock people dependant upon clear thinking.. logical minds.. for our survival. How sad is it to see a space-faring and nuclear energy possessing world.. with so many yet floundering in the medieval dark-ages..

[freedom13]

Quote by: Technosoul Those are all very interesting concepts / interpretations. A number of my friends believe that Magdalene visited the Native Americans who called her the White Buffalo Calf Woman. White Buffalo Calf Woman Brings First Pipe (Chasing Horse) However many of the notions about worshipping a Goddess has nothing to do with an actual person. But came about due to names such as Mother Nature. And the manner of worship is totally different then how Christians worship God or Jesus. However some of the pagan riturals were copycatted by the early Jews. The Christians templated many of the pagan holidays with Chirstian holidays. Many of the most famous churches in the old world were built directly on top of places held sacred by the pagans. Mother Earth and Father Sun, and the spirit of life that is in all things such as the trees and animals. And the spirits in the winds, waters, fires, and earth. What more info?

Well, both Christianity and Wicca are based on Egyptian and Greek Mythology.

Sophia Goddess

Sophia, Goddess of Wisdom - Crystalinks Sophia (pronounced sew-fee'ah) in Greek, Hohkma in Hebrew, Sapientia in Latin, Celtic goddess-figure Sheela-na-gigs - all mean wisdom,. The Judeo-Christian God's female soul, source of his true power is Sophia. As Goddess of wisdom and fate , her faces are many: Black Goddess, Divine Feminine, Mother of God The Gnostic Christians, Sophia was the Mother of Creation; her consort and assistant was Jehovah. Her sacred shrine, Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, is one of the seven wonders of the world. Her symbol, the dove, represents spirit; she is crowned by stars, a Middle Eastern icon, to indicate her absolute divinity. Sophia is found throughout the wisdom books of the Bible. There are references to Her in the book of Proverbs, and in the apocryphal books of Sirach and the Wisdom of Solomon (accepted by Catholics and Orthodox, found in the Greek Septuagint of the early Church). She is usually associated with wise King Solomon. 1 Kings 4:29-31 tells us that God gave wisdom to Solomon, and that he became wiser than all the kings of the East and all the wise people of Egypt. Wisdom 8:2, 16, 18 tells us that Solomon was seen as married to Sophia.

Isis before Sophia

Early Wisdom Goddesses Sophia and the Dragon - Early Wisdom Goddesses Sophia is similar to the great goddesses of the ancient Near East: Maat, Themis, Isis, Demeter-Persephone, Athena. At one time, long before the priesthood inserted itself as indispensable for individual access to the sacred, the Great Goddess during the Neolithic era served the human psyche as an image of the Whole. Wisdom was one aspect of the Great Goddess. Various goddesses personified wisdom centuries before Sophia entered the religious literature of Judaism: Nammu and Inanna in Sumeria, Maat and Isis in Egypt, and Athena and Demeter in Greece.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: freedom13 Well, both Christianity and Wicca are based on Egyptian and Greek Mythology. Sophia Goddess Isis before Sophia

Many of our new ager concepts about "the Goddess within" have used as role models different goddesses of mythology, such as Diana (goddess of the hunt). And all those things have drifted into and influenced modern day wiccan groups, books, or organizations. Along with aspects of the women's lib movement. The Greek Goddesses were created by a very intelligent culture with a poetic flair, that artistic culture was big into philosophy and wisdom. The modern wiccan community has adopted ideas from eastern religions as well, and has sort of united a lot of things under their roof. And although they dislike the Christians who conducted witch hunts, and who did not give women much respect, they none the less do not think that Jesus had anything to do with the over-all negatives found in the Christian religion. Jesus often spoke in terms that pagans can understand, using nature to explain the nature of "the Father", and he often stood up for women's rights.

Now the Greeks were a rather advanced culture and the roots of paganism are much older then that, and reach back into some of the most primitive ages of humanity. Further back then the Jewish writings that orginated in Sumer.

The pagans are people who lived close to nature, while the other religions you mentoned were mostly city folks. The "hicks from the sticks" verses the "city slickers". That is how the two groups were seperated. RE: The civilized verses the trible savages (aka natives).

[Derach]

wiccan paganism makes more sense than christianity.

Ancient man, fighting for survival, forraging for food and clean water. They worship the tree that bears fruit and feeds them. They worship the earth, from which crops are grown to sustain a village, they worship the stream, fed by the spring that quenches their thirst.

Christians worship a man who (may have) lived and died 2000 yrs ago. They also worship a collection of ancient scripts, whose authors are not entirely known, that is mostly a compilation of fantasy and fiction stories that have no foundation for being factual besides being set in real cities. Christianity has been used as a supressive tool historically ... over and over ... it shouldn't be given deference to paganism.

Paganism is an attempt to worship the things that obviously give them physical sustenence ... That is more sensible than following an ancient institution with such a horrific history founded on social control, supression, war, torture, abuse, fraud, etc etc etc.

[freedom13]

Now the Greeks were a rather advanced culture and the roots of paganism are much older then that, and reach back into some of the most primitive ages of humanity. Further back then the Jewish writings that orginated in Sumer. The pagans are people who lived close to nature, while the other religions you mentoned were mostly city folks. The "hicks from the sticks" verses the "city slickers". That is how the two groups were seperated. RE: The civilized verses the trible savages (aka natives).

The Greek philosophy and mythology were influenced by the African advanced civilization, cultures and the Egyptian mythology.

Here some information on pagan and paganism:

Meanings of the terms Pagan and Paganism Who is a "Pagan?" Everybody has their favorite definition of the word "Pagan." Most people are convinced that their meaning is the correct one. But no consensus exists, even within a single faith tradition or religion as to the "correct" definition of "Pagan." The same problem happens with the definition of "Christianity," and probably with many other religions. Origin of the term: There is general agreement that the word "Pagan" comes from the Latin word "paganus." Unfortunately, there is no consensus on the precise meaning of the word in the fifth century CE and before. There are three main interpretations. 16 None has won general acceptance: bullet Most modern Pagan sources interpret the word to have meant "rustic," "hick," or "country bumpkin" -- a pejorative term. The implication was that Christians used the term to ridicule country folk who tenaciously held on to what the Christians considered old-fashioned, outmoded Pagan beliefs. Those in the country were much slower in adopting the new religion of Christianity than were the city folks. They still followed the Greek state religion, Roman state religion, Mithraism, various mystery religions, etc., long after those in urban areas had converted. bullet Some believe that in the early Roman Empire, "paganus" came to mean "civilian" as opposed to "military." Christians often called themselves "miles Christi" (Soldiers of Christ). The non-Christians became "pagani" -- non-soldiers or civilians. No denigration would be implied. bullet C. Mohrmann suggests that the general meaning was any "outsider," -- a neutral term -- and that the other meanings, "civilian" and "hick," were merely specialized uses of the term. 17 By the third century CE, its meaning evolved to include all non-Christians. Eventually, it became an evil term that implied the possibility of Satan worship. The latter two meanings are still in widespread use today. There is no generally accepted, single, current definition for the word "Pagan." The word is among the terms that the newsgroup alt.usage.english, calls "skunk words." They have varied meanings to different people. The field of religion is rife with such words. consider: Christian, cult, hell, heaven, occult, Paganism, pluralism, salvation, Witch, Witchcraft, Unitarian Universalist, Voodoo, etc. Each has so many meanings that they often cause misunderstandings wherever they are used. Unfortunately, most people do not know this, and naturally assume that the meaning that they have been taught is universally accepted. A reader must often look at the context in which the word is used in order to guess at the intent of the writer.

[loser]

And beold, a seed of truth was planted in the womb of my mind. In secret I labored with it, and in due season I did give birth to it in my words, saying "behold this word, which is the child of the Most High. Let Nature bear witness of this child-gift that wise men have so long awaited. Yea, for this word will mature, and in due season she will open her pages so that all might enter her, and partake of her beauty, her comfort, and the sunshine of her love. For she is as a candle, as 7 candles, illuminating the darkness with her revelations.

Wow, that's absolutely beautiful! Are you a gifted poet or did you just forget to post credits to the source?

At any rate, thanks for that. Mind if I use it?

What did he have to teach the Buddhists they didn't already know?

What could a race advanced light-years ahead of humanity teach us? The Buddhists are humans. The sum of their knowledge is a mere drop in the ocean of what can be known. There is so much that Buddhists don't know, it's not funny.

I doubt the historical Jesus ever went that far east.

The "historical Jesus"? What exactly does that mean? Is there a difference between the historical 'Morality Games' and just plain ol' Morality Games? Why don't people say "the historical Charles Darwin" or "the historical Abraham Lincoln"? Is that just a catchphrase used by those who doubt His existence? Is it an attempt to discredit who He says He was all the while conceding that He actually did exist (as a mere human being)?

It wasn't really that "far east"...half an hour, tops.

It would be laughable - but.. there are World Population Clock people dependant upon clear thinking.. logical minds.. for our survival.

That, indeed, is laughable.

wiccan paganism makes more sense than christianity.

Does it, now?

Ancient man, fighting for survival, forraging for food and clean water. They worship the tree that bears fruit and feeds them. They worship the earth, from which crops are grown to sustain a village, they worship the stream, fed by the spring that quenches their thirst.

How stupid is that? Do you worship the trees or the earth (or the farmers) which feed you? Your mistake is your brain-washed idea that "ancient man" was somehow more ignorant (had less of a brain) than modern man. If you don't feel an urge to worship 'false gods', it's not very logical to assume that ancient man did, either. In fact, it's very presumptuous.

The landscape you paint is false. It's no wonder that your conclusions are all wrong.

Christians worship a man who (may have) lived and died 2000 yrs ago. They also worship a collection of ancient scripts, whose authors are not entirely known, that is mostly a compilation of fantasy and fiction stories that have no foundation for being factual besides being set in real cities.

Or, it could all be based on actual experiences. Imagine that, if you can. Let's say that the very first man on earth experienced a relationship with an alien being who said He was his Creator. This Being was so terrifying to behold (because of His powerful nature) and so advanced beyond belief, that any future references to Him (absent His literal presence) would be of mythological proportions.

Myths and legends aren't created by fertile imaginations. They are explanations for realities long forgotten.

Had Jesus just been a man, people would not worship Him today. It's the fact that He performed amazing 'miracles' (scientific feats that defied imagination) that makes Him remembered.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to suggest that mankind just made up a bunch of gods to worship unless a God had been experienced from the very beginning.

If I was the first man, I would be less gullible than I am today. I wouldn't carry the extra baggage of indoctrination and speculative history. I would deduce all things from my experiences through life. It is modern man that has become more superstitious and less intelligent, but he can hardly be conscious of that.

Christianity has been used as a supressive tool historically ... over and over ... it shouldn't be given deference to paganism.

Besides the point. Men have always been oppressive towards one another, Christianity or not.

Truth should always be given preference over lies, don't you think?

Paganism is an attempt to worship the things that obviously give them physical sustenence ... That is more sensible than following an ancient institution with such a horrific history founded on social control, supression, war, torture, abuse, fraud, etc etc etc.

No matter how horrific man's history, reality is more sensible than fantasy. Fantasy is an attempt to escape reality, not an attempt to embellish it with sordid details of man's abject humanity.

If the Bible was a fantastical, mythological creation, why not make it more attractive? What's the purpose of painting God as an unlovable Being? Where is the logic in that?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: loser Wow, that's absolutely beautiful! Are you a gifted poet or did you just forget to post credits to the source? At any rate, thanks for that. Mind if I use it? What could a race advanced light-years ahead of humanity teach us? The Buddhists are humans. The sum of their knowledge is a mere drop in the ocean of what can be known. There is so much that Buddhists don't know, it's not funny. The "historical Jesus"? What exactly does that mean? Is there a difference between the historical 'Morality Games' and just plain ol' Morality Games? Why don't people say "the historical Charles Darwin" or "the historical Abraham Lincoln"? Is that just a catchphrase used by those who doubt His existence? Is it an attempt to discredit who He says He was all the while conceding that He actually did exist (as a mere human being)? It wasn't really that "far east"...half an hour, tops. That, indeed, is laughable. Does it, now? How stupid is that? Do you worship the trees or the earth (or the farmers) which feed you? Your mistake is your brain-washed idea that "ancient man" was somehow more ignorant (had less of a brain) than modern man. If you don't feel an urge to worship 'false gods', it's not very logical to assume that ancient man did, either. In fact, it's very presumptuous. The landscape you paint is false. It's no wonder that your conclusions are all wrong. Or, it could all be based on actual experiences. Imagine that, if you can. Let's say that the very first man on earth experienced a relationship with an alien being who said He was his Creator. This Being was so terrifying to behold (because of His powerful nature) and so advanced beyond belief, that any future references to Him (absent His literal presence) would be of mythological proportions. Myths and legends aren't created by fertile imaginations. They are explanations for realities long forgotten. Had Jesus just been a man, people would not worship Him today. It's the fact that He performed amazing 'miracles' (scientific feats that defied imagination) that makes Him remembered. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to suggest that mankind just made up a bunch of gods to worship unless a God had been experienced from the very beginning. If I was the first man, I would be less gullible than I am today. I wouldn't carry the extra baggage of indoctrination and speculative history. I would deduce all things from my experiences through life. It is modern man that has become more superstitious and less intelligent, but he can hardly be conscious of that. Besides the point. Men have always been oppressive towards one another, Christianity or not. Truth should always be given preference over lies, don't you think? No matter how horrific man's history, reality is more sensible than fantasy. Fantasy is an attempt to escape reality, not an attempt to embellish it with sordid details of man's abject humanity. If the Bible was a fantastical, mythological creation, why not make it more attractive? What's the purpose of painting God as an unlovable Being? Where is the logic in that?

Yes you can use it for whatever purpose you wish. I wrote it. Part of a book I never completed. Not copyrighted.

I might have posted something simular in my blog called "into the blue".

I am not sure if the other comments were directed to me (technosoul) or to some other poster.

The Alien theory is very likely, the best books on the subject were written by Secharia Sitchin. I would recomend "the 12th Planet".

ZECHARIA SITCHIN (WHERE WE COME FROM)

[ChaChynga]

Christianity can not be formed with any other doctrine or its not Christian.

Judaeo-Christianity is a fraud in every aspect of it being JUDAEO

it i.e. Christian doctrine can not be Leavened or poisoned with any other teaching.

There is ONLY one way to the Father and that is the son Christ Jesus, and only on GODS terms, man can not add or detract anything without playing the antichrist.

[leegao]

now you just sound absurd. Do a google search at least.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: ChaChynga Christianity can not be formed with any other doctrine or its not Christian. Judaeo-Christianity is a fraud in every aspect of it being JUDAEO it i.e. Christian doctrine can not be Leavened or poisoned with any other teaching. There is ONLY one way to the Father and that is the son Christ Jesus, and only on GODS terms, man can not add or detract anything without playing the antichrist.

Then how come the Christians do not remain isolated instead of going out to mingle and mix with everyone else if such is poison to them?

Why enslave people to doctrine when you could be setting them free from dontrine?