"The Atheist's Wager", A turn on Pascal

[MplsBison]

Nope. You do not have to sacrifice any of those to have faith that a god exists.


I really think you are taking all the faults of organized Christianity and dumping them on faith in general.

Do not do that.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: MplsBison And as I said, current physics evidences shows that teleportation is impossible.

Ah... so you don't have to prove it impossible so long as someone else has done it for you. Thus you agree with the following:

Claims that agee with existing proven facts are likely true.

Claims that contradict existing proven facts are false.

Claims that neither agree with nor contradict proven facts are possible.

Why then did you disagree with me in post 168?

[Jack]

I'm not. I am saying that to believe that an invisible super being is responsible for creating the universe and life requires the suspension of skepticism and common sense. To ignore the working of nature and instead ascribe to the belief that there's really an entity behind it all is practicing wishful thinking rather than critical thinking.

In nearly every culture on the planet, people who believe in invisible entities, especially those who talk to these invisible friends and believe they talk to them, are considered not quite right in the head. Only in the case of religion are we expected, as a sign of respect for this patent nonsense, to accept it as reasonable. It's not.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: Zhavric Ah... so you don't have to prove it impossible so long as someone else has done it for you.

Did you have to prove an electromagnetics equation before you were allowed to turn on a lightbulb?

Of course not, that would be silly.

Why then did you disagree with me in post 168?

Because trying to say that the impossible is possible unless shown to be impossible is nonsensical.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: Isherwood I am saying that to believe that an invisible super being is responsible for creating the universe and life requires the suspension of skepticism and common sense.

Why does he have to be invisible?

You could instead say that he is visible, simply he does not exist in our universe.


Stop trying to dump common, organized religious beliefs on faith in general.

To ignore the working of nature and instead ascribe to the belief that there's really an entity behind it all is practicing wishful thinking rather than critical thinking.

Why does one have to ignore the working of nature to have faith?


You could instead say that a god created the universe and the universe exists now exactly as he created it 5 billion years ago: with laws of physics governing everything.


Stop trying to dump common, organized religious beliefs on faith in general.

In nearly every culture on the planet, people who believe in invisible entities, especially those who talk to these invisible friends and believe they talk to them, are considered not quite right in the head.

Who says that you have to talk to a god in order to have faith in him?

You could instead say that since the creator of this universe does not exist in this universe, attempting to communicate with him is a futile attempt.


Stop trying to dump common, organized religious beliefs on faith in general.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: MplsBison Because trying to say that the impossible is possible unless shown to be impossible is nonsensical.

Are you sure?

Quote by: MplsBison All x are possible unless they are shown to be impossible.

[MplsBison]

That statement is true for all x that have yet to be shown impossible.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: MplsBison to Zhavric Current physics evidence shows this (teleportation) is impossible.

Quote by: MplsBison to Sonart Current physics evidence shows that heaven, hell, god, etc. can not exist ... in this universe. Can they exist outside this universe? Undoubtedly, it is possible. And until we get evidence that shows that is impossible, it will remain possible.

Sorry Bison, but this is completely disingenuous. You can't have it both ways.

Our debate is over.

Quote by: MplsBison Of course you can.

No, I can't, but it's fascinating that you know me so much better than I do. How does that work, exactly?

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[MplsBison]

Quote by: Sonart You can't have it both ways.

I am not trying to have it both ways.




Current physics evidence shows:

- teleportation is impossible

- the existence of god/heaven/hell/etc. in this universe is impossible



Current physics evidence does not show:

- the existence of god/heaven/hell/etc. outside this universe is impossible

How does that work, exactly?

Because you are human. You are not any less dependent on your emotions than any other human.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: MplsBison That is valid just as long as you realize that atheists have the most to lose.

This is only your personal opinion, not fact. According to your logic, if there is a god, he/she/it could be more interested in letting atheists into heaven because they think rationally and don't buy any ole crap tossed at them from an anncient book. As long as we maintain our disbelief because of lack of evidence, this god has our front row seats just waiting for us. The various holy texts around the world could be just a test to see who is gulible and who isn't. So according to your logic, we stand the best chance, but just like you, we'll never know til we die.

[MplsBison]

I have not considered a god that only allows atheists into his heaven.

I can not dispute the possibility.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: MplsBison Current physics evidence does not show: - the existence of god/heaven/hell/etc. outside this universe is impossible

Current evidence doesn't show that there is another universe outside ours. Furthermore, the idea if there is a universe outside ours is a heaven in the biblical sense is impossible.

You really do need to start arguing honestly.

[Jack]

Since theists like "why" questions so much, let me ask one.

Why do we need to believe in a heaven or hell? Why do we need to believe in gods? Why don't we focus on living lives we can be proud of and let the supernatural fend for itself?

[MplsBison]

Quote by: Zhavric Current evidence doesn't show that there is another universe outside ours.

As far as I know, you are correct here.


Who says there needs to be another universe outside of our universe for something to exist out there?

[MplsBison]

Quote by: Isherwood Why do we need to believe in a heaven or hell? Why do we need to believe in gods? Why don't we focus on living lives we can be proud of and let the supernatural fend for itself?

You do not need to do anything.


It is just nice to think that once you leave this world there is something else.








Would you agree that one may have faith in a god without the god having to be invisible, without having to talk to the god and without having to ignore the mechanics of our universe?

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: MplsBison ....... Would you agree that one may have faith in a god without the god having to be invisible, without having to talk to the god and without having to ignore the mechanics of our universe?

Then why call it god? Personally I call this NATURE.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: ItsDarts Then why call it god? Personally I call this NATURE.

I call nature as the current state of our reality.


I would call a god as the one who created our reality, if such a one exists now or existed a time ago.


The label "god" is itself arbitrary, for me. "Creator" would do as well.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: mlsBison It is just nice to think that once you leave this world there is something else.

It'd be nice to think that I could never grow old and live forever, fly like Superman and poop ice cream. Sometimes you just have to be happy with what you get.

When I die, that'll be it. I'll be sorry to see my life come to an end, but it was a great trip while it lasted and I'm grateful to have had the opportunity. Works for me.

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[MplsBison]

Quote by: Sonart It'd be nice to think that I could never grow old and live forever, fly like Superman and poop ice cream.

And you can say with certainty that none of those things will ever happen.



You can not say with certainty that nothing will happen when you die.

[Sonart]

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Did I stutter earlier? Yes, Bison, I can. Otherwise I'd be an agnostic.


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