Atheists.. they go to Hell

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Halofan48 Doesn't that mean we have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the son of a god? Therefore we must be a christian in order to go to heaven.

You have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, yes. You have to believe in Him, if you want him to come to you.

The bible says that each of us are gifted with the Holy Spirit within us. It tries to help us find God, if we listen to it.

Quote by: Halofan48 This can be considered contradictory to your previous comment. It all depends on what makes a person evil in the eyes of your god. For, if being an atheist is evil, or being something else that's considered evil that might not be to the rest of us like _________ (fill in the blank), then even if we called out to Jesus as you said, we might not be saved.

Yes, even if you call out to Jesus, you may not be saved, depending on what you've done in your life. An athiest can go to heaven, and a Christian can go to hell.

If the athiest is a good person, a loving person, I believe they will come to know Jesus in the afterlife.

[Halofan48]

You have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, yes. You have to believe in Him, if you want him to come to you. The bible says that each of us are gifted with the Holy Spirit within us. It tries to help us find God, if we listen to it.

But since atheists don't believe that there is a god, then wouldn't we be doomed to hell?

Yes, even if you call out to Jesus, you may not be saved, depending on what you've done in your life. An athiest can go to heaven, and a Christian can go to hell.

I think you missed my point. What if just being an atheist is considered by god to be an evil thing. What if some of the things we do is something that your god considers evil when we as a society do not? Then we are basically screwed.

Also, Lullaby presented a good argument about how parts of the bible say believing will get you saved.

Though you may not of realized it, you have said things that can easily be interpreted as you saying you have to be a good christian to go to heaven. You say that one must accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior to be admitted into heaven. So therefore, since atheists don't believe that there is a god, therefore no son of said god, we would be doomed to hell.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9) Then again, this wouldn't be the first contradiction in God's perfect word. I don't doubt it. But I still think Hitler could easily sincerely accept Jesus into his heart.. and according to this......... "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9 ......that's all it takes.

That's not all it takes. The bible does elaborate on it. To pick out one or two phrases will not tell you the whole story.

From what I understand, to be saved, we need both belief in Jesus, AND to do good in our lives. One without the other is not enough. If you truly believe in Jesus, yet live a selfish life, you are ignoring his teachings, you do not really know him.

It is said that it is difficult to enter heaven, and not all those who call out to Him will be saved. To some Jesus will say, "I never knew you".

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Halofan48 But since atheists don't believe that there is a god, then wouldn't we be doomed to hell? I think you missed my point. What if just being an atheist is considered by god to be an evil thing. What if some of the things we do is something that your god considers evil when we as a society do not? Then we are basically screwed. Also, Lullaby presented a good argument about how parts of the bible say believing will get you saved. Though you may not of realized it, you have said things that can easily be interpreted as you saying you have to be a good christian to go to heaven. You say that one must accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior to be admitted into heaven. So therefore, since atheists don't believe that there is a god, therefore no son of said god, we would be doomed to hell.

Yes you must accept Jesus Christ to go to heaven. But dieing as an athiest doesn't necessarily mean you are doomed. Being an athiest doesn't mean you are evil. You can be a good person, if you care for others and act on that caring. Being an athiest means you lack faith.

You lack faith, but you may yet gain it, even if it doesn't happen until you enter the afterlife. Death may be what it takes, to get you to hear the Holy Spirit inside of you, and accept Jesus.

Quote by: Halofan48 What if some of the things we do is something that your god considers evil when we as a society do not? Then we are basically screwed.

All of us sin, including Christians. Jesus died for our sins, just try your best. Be a loving person. Be the good Samaritan, love your neighbour as yourself.

[Sonart]

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Since you all believe in Hell, you all can go there.

I know it doesn't exist, so I'm not in the least bit worried about it.


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[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: lindsay7 That's not all it takes. The bible does elaborate on it. To pick out one or two phrases will not tell you the whole story. From what I understand, to be saved, we need both belief in Jesus, AND to do good in our lives. One without the other is not enough. If you truly believe in Jesus, yet live a selfish life, you are ignoring his teachings, you do not really know him. It is said that it is difficult to enter heaven, and not all those who call out to Him will be saved. To some Jesus will say, "I never knew you".

And your response to the passage I provided that says salvation is NOT through works?

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer And your response to the passage I provided that says salvation is NOT through works?

That whole passage says...

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As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

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Faith is required for salvation, and I do believe faith is a gift from God, we must ask for, we can't create it ourselves.

This passage speaks of living in the ways of the world in the past tense - I have highlighted this. With accepting Jesus, there has been an obvious change. We are then "created in Christ Jesus to do good works."

It isn't the works that save us, it is accepting Jesus. But we haven't really accepted Jesus if we continue living the same way. The change is indicative of us inviting God into our lives. God changes us. If the change is not there, then evidently we haven't really accepted Jesus, we just claim we did.

[JaneDoe321]

I've given this a lot of thought and for me, it boils down to...

I accept that I could be wrong in my atheism. I mean, I haven't died yet, and I don't know of anybody who's died and then come back to fill me in on what happens "next". However, I am still atheist, since there's no evidence to the contrary that I accept as valid.

That being said, I'm a more or less decent person most of the time. I try to live a mindful life, and I try to make the world a better place in general (not just for people... as one of the UU principles in its simplified forms says... respect the earth and the web of life).

So, if all the good I do is negated by the fact that I simply do not believe that there is a sentient "god", well... then I have no respect for such a critter anyway. So, an eternity stuck with that kind of egomaniac would be "hell" anyway.

[wyoguy]

The whole problem with this thread is that everyone has it upside down and inside out. It isn't that atheists might be getting a judgement that we, in our own human estimations, think is unwarranted. Its that a select few are escaping a righteous judgement, that they, in God's estimation, truly do deserve. Any real believer I've ever met or even read about has obeyed God's commands not from a desire to obtain God's favor, but out of a sense of gratitude for the salvation that has already been granted. This deals with the notion that scripture somehow contradicts itself. Both are true. Salvation is of grace--you can't earn it (this is the doctrine of Divine Election, Belgic Confession of Faith - article 16). Believers work out their salvation--your status as "saved" will be evidenced through your actions (this is the doctrine of Sanctification of Sinners, Belgic Confession of Faith - article 24).

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

[Sonart]

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Here's a test for all you believers in Hell...

"One beautiful, sunny day, a sweet, innocent 13 yr-old girl was making her way home through the streets of Bangkok, Thailand. She was a very bright, precocious young girl, a good student, an obedient and loving daughter, who gave of her time doing volunteer charity work. And she was a devout Buddhist, the religion of her parents and their parents, and her peers and community.

As she's walking home, she comes across a Christian missionary who's holding forth before a small crowd, explaining the basics of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Being bright and curious, the young girl stops and listens intently. After an hour or so, she mulls over what she's heard and decides to continue to believe devoutly in her own faith and that of her family. Satisfied and happy, she turns to continue her walk home, stepping into the street, where she is hit by a careening, runaway bus and killed instantly.

So... is she going to Hell?"


If so, you can have heaven and it's petty, vindictive and immoral god... I'll stay in hell and comfort that poor child.

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[Rainbow]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer What are your thoughts on atheists?

Guys like others.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: wyoguy Any real believer I've ever met or even read about has obeyed God's commands not from a desire to obtain God's favor, but out of a sense of gratitude for the salvation that has already been granted.

So, then you'd be okay with the statement, "Any real German I've ever met or even read about has obeyed the Furor's commands not from a desire to obtain His favor, but out of a sense of gratitude for not being sent off to a concentration camp." Right?

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Sonart . Here's a test for all you believers in Hell... "One beautiful, sunny day, a sweet, innocent 13 yr-old girl was making her way home through the streets of Bangkok, Thailand. She was a very bright, precocious young girl, a good student, an obedient and loving daughter, who gave of her time doing volunteer charity work. And she was a devout Buddhist, the religion of her parents and their parents, and her peers and community. As she's walking home, she comes across a Christian missionary who's holding forth before a small crowd, explaining the basics of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Being bright and curious, the young girl stops and listens intently. After an hour or so, she mulls over what she's heard and decides to continue to believe devoutly in her own faith and that of her family. Satisfied and happy, she turns to continue her walk home, stepping into the street, where she is hit by a careening, runaway bus and killed instantly. So... is she going to Hell?" If so, you can have heaven and it's petty, vindictive and immoral god... I'll stay in hell and comfort that poor child. .

No, I don't think she would go to hell. I think that Jesus would come to her in the afterlife. I don't think that good, loving people go to hell.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Sonart . Here's a test for all you believers in Hell... "One beautiful, sunny day, a sweet, innocent 13 yr-old girl was making her way home through the streets of Bangkok, Thailand. She was a very bright, precocious young girl, a good student, an obedient and loving daughter, who gave of her time doing volunteer charity work. And she was a devout Buddhist, the religion of her parents and their parents, and her peers and community. As she's walking home, she comes across a Christian missionary who's holding forth before a small crowd, explaining the basics of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Being bright and curious, the young girl stops and listens intently. After an hour or so, she mulls over what she's heard and decides to continue to believe devoutly in her own faith and that of her family. Satisfied and happy, she turns to continue her walk home, stepping into the street, where she is hit by a careening, runaway bus and killed instantly. So... is she going to Hell?" If so, you can have heaven and it's petty, vindictive and immoral god... I'll stay in hell and comfort that poor child. .

Since the only command from the new covenant with man is to love each other as you love yourself no, I think anyone who treats others fairly and just will enter heaven.

[Morality Games]

Since the only command from the new covenant with man is to love each other as you love yourself no, I think anyone who treats others fairly and just will enter heaven.

No, I don't think she would go to hell. I think that Jesus would come to her in the afterlife. I don't think that good, loving people go to hell.

And what about people who were treated harshly from birth onward and consequently became nasty and hateful? What about people who, through no fault of their own, lost their sanity and went on a spree of terrible crimes?

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Lindsay No, I don't think she would go to hell. I think that Jesus would come to her in the afterlife. I don't think that good, loving people go to hell.

And yet earlier you wrote...

"You have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, yes. You have to believe in Him, if you want him to come to you."

Interesting, Lindsay. Since condemning that young girl would seem terribly cruel and capricious, you now seem to be giving Jesus an out. That's kind of you.


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[Morality Games]

Quote by: Sonart . And yet earlier you wrote... "You have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, yes. You have to believe in Him, if you want him to come to you." Interesting, Lindsay. Since condemning that young girl would seem terribly cruel and capricious, you now seem to be giving Jesus an out. That's kind of you. .

I thought about pointing that out, but I was trying to be nice.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Morality Games And what about people who were treated harshly from birth onward and consequently became nasty and hateful? What about people who, through no fault of their own, lost their sanity and went on a spree of terrible crimes?

I'm sure God would know the true heart of each person.

Like for instance if mind control devices were developed, or brains computerized to the point where someone could control you to do acts of violence against your will.

And to those who will bring up the word heart in this context YES we've been over how the heart is an organ so don't even bother.

[Morality Games]

Quote by: HelioPrime I'm sure God would know the true heart of each person. Like for instance if mind control devices were developed, or brains computerized to the point where someone could control you to do acts of violence against your will. And to those who will bring up the word heart in this context YES we've been over how the heart is an organ so don't even bother.

That basically excludes everyone from going to Hell, since the mind-in-the-world works pretty mechanically even without mind-controlling machines. Ask yourself, how substantial is the difference between a particular cognitive reaction to the content of my posts and an electronic mandate from a mind control device? Both are types of control.

The only differences are that one is direct and the other is indirect and one is passive (quiet and subtle) and the other dramatic (appears more terrifying and amazing).

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Sonart . And yet earlier you wrote... "You have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, yes. You have to believe in Him, if you want him to come to you." Interesting, Lindsay. Since condemning that young girl would seem terribly cruel and capricious, you now seem to be giving Jesus an out. That's kind of you. .

I think that everyone already knows Jesus inside. The bible says that we each have the Holy Spirit within us. So yeah, I think that if an unbeliever dies, they will come to know the truth in the afterlife. And a good person would call for Jesus.