Satanism-Is it really so bad?

[JaneDoe321]

Ok so an earlier thread got me all curious about Satanism and fortunately we're a free thinking household so I was able to surf around and read up and none of the sites I visited were blocked by any sort of filter...

As with any religion, there are like a gajillion variants, but the "major" one, what I saw called "Leveyan Satanism" or "The Church of Satan" was *nothing* like I expected. Really, although I am sure it wasn't intended this way, it *reads* sort of like "Have a good time, don't screw with anybody else, and don't take any crap from anybody who screws with you after you ask them to stop"

That fine fine source Wikipedia has some nice "elevator speech" descriptions.. I'm just curious really if anybody has any "real" knowledge of "mainstream" Satanism. It seems like it's really pretty harmless, more or less, and I can see the appeal of a religion that lists some of its "sins" as things like stupidity and conformity, and encourages people in indulgence.

I did find a line about

The most important holiday in Satanism is one's own birthday, as it is the birthdate of one's own god.

However, I don't think that's really a *literal* "god" as commonly pictured. I think that's misrepresented by some folks.

But then, I am not an expert on Satanism. It has been fascinating reading, though! I can't wait to talk with the kids about my findings so far!

[lindsay7]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 Ok so an earlier thread got me all curious about Satanism and fortunately we're a free thinking household so I was able to surf around and read up and none of the sites I visited were blocked by any sort of filter... As with any religion, there are like a gajillion variants, but the "major" one, what I saw called "Leveyan Satanism" or "The Church of Satan" was *nothing* like I expected. Really, although I am sure it wasn't intended this way, it *reads* sort of like "Have a good time, don't screw with anybody else, and don't take any crap from anybody who screws with you after you ask them to stop" That fine fine source Wikipedia has some nice "elevator speech" descriptions.. I'm just curious really if anybody has any "real" knowledge of "mainstream" Satanism. It seems like it's really pretty harmless, more or less, and I can see the appeal of a religion that lists some of its "sins" as things like stupidity and conformity, and encourages people in indulgence. I did find a line about However, I don't think that's really a *literal* "god" as commonly pictured. I think that's misrepresented by some folks. But then, I am not an expert on Satanism. It has been fascinating reading, though! I can't wait to talk with the kids about my findings so far!

Up to you of course, but do you really want to teach them the words of a religion that encourages selfishness and no concern for others? Do you think this is what we should aspire to? Is this the meaning of life?

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: lindsay7 Up to you of course, but do you really want to teach them the words of a religion that encourages selfishness and no concern for others? Do you think this is what we should aspire to? Is this the meaning of life?

I missed where I said I wanted to get my kids baptised in this religion. Do I want to teach them *about* this religion? Ummm.. yes. To quote the wise Schoolhouse Rocky, knowledge is power, and I'd rather discuss it rationally with them now than try to play catch up later on.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 I missed where I said I wanted to get my kids baptised in this religion. Do I want to teach them *about* this religion? Ummm.. yes. To quote the wise Schoolhouse Rocky, knowledge is power, and I'd rather discuss it rationally with them now than try to play catch up later on.

Ahh, I'm sorry, I thought you meant something else.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: lindsay7 Up to you of course, but do you really want to teach them the words of a religion that encourages selfishness and no concern for others? Do you think this is what we should aspire to? Is this the meaning of life?

This is not what Satanism teaches. It teaches to help those who deserve help. It basically teaches the Golden Rule and the Eye for an Eye rule. Unlike Christianity who teaches to turn the other cheek in the face of adversity. The philosophy is based off of Neitzchie and Ayn Rand.

The Nine Satanic Statements 1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence. 2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams. 3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit. 4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates. 5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek. 6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires. 7. Satan represents humanity as just another animal species, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of its “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious species of all. 8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification. 9. Satan has been the best friend the [Christian] Church has ever had, as it has kept it in business all these years.[10] The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth 1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked. 2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them. 3. When in another’s lair, show them respect or else do not go there. 4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy. 5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. 6. Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved. 7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained. 8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself. 9. Do not harm little children. 10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food. 11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

Source

None of these doctrines seems to be over the top or unreasonable.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 It seems like it's really pretty harmless, more or less..

I looked into it about 12yrs ago. You got the gist of it. People get all upset about it, mostly as a knee-jerk reaction. Satan being in the title and all. I thought it was kinda silly they hold seances and have rituals, just like the real church. But, what the heck, I talked to someone a few days ago who speeks Klingon, so it takes all kinds I guess.

[KayTwee]

I never thought that Satanism had much value as a religion, but thanks to ItsDarts I now have something positive I can take away from it:

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

If only God had thought to include that in the 10 Commandments!!!! But then, I can see why he didn't.. rather takes all the fun out of Christianity if you have nothing to moan about.

[lindsay7]

"Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates."

It is easy to be kind to those who are kind to you, and hate others. Most people already live by those Satanist principles, whether Satanist or not. I don't think it gives anything to aspire to. It simply describes our base nature. I believe we can do better than that.

[HelioPrime]

Those who deserve help.

Yah that's satanism. The religion where you can choose whom to be kind to or not based off if you like them or not. Be kind to your friend but spit on your enemy.

It's the religion where you get to be your own god, judging others. It's perfect since freedom of choice was something Lucifer and the other fallen angel's didn't have. They couldn't choose.

[KayTwee]

Quote by: HelioPrime It's perfect since freedom of choice was something Lucifer and the other fallen angel's didn't have. They couldn't choose.

What couldn't they choose?

[Jayjhis]

Yeah the only problem with satanism is the fact that it's called satanism. Most people, when they hear "satanism" they hear "SATAN...ism" and immediately conjure up images of human sacrifice and upside-down crosses painted in blood on walls, eerie people in black robes standing in a circle chanting to summon demons, etc.

When Levey founded satanism, he was either an altar boy or he just went to church, I don't remember exactly, and he worked at a carnival. He would see the people at the carnival on Saturday night with prostitutes and drugs and alcohol, then he would see those same people in Church in the morning condemning those very behaviors, a way of life typical to many catholics. The idea behind it is that human nature cannot be fully repressed, so forcing oneself into a religion that defies human nature will not turn you into a good person, it'll just turn you into a hypocrite. He would have had a hay day with the recent buzz over pedophile priests.

He also disliked the idea of people praising or blaming God for the good and bad things that happened to them, as he would watch these people bring these things upon themselves for the most part. Satanism should be looked at less as a religion and more as an ethical code. If something good happens to you, it's ultimately because of choices YOU made. If something bad happens to you, it's ultimately because of choices YOU made. If you turn the other cheek, don't whine when it gets slapped.

I can't help but agree with this philosophy.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: KayTwee What couldn't they choose?

The story is (story so who knows )...

The angel's are all similar to God, they are just less powerful versions. They also must obey God. When some angels questioned God regarding humans God threw them out of heaven.

Of course thats the story anyway. Lucifer and Satan could be the same thing for all we know. Or Satan could be an existing god like entity that God chained in the realm of hell after defeating him.

[KayTwee]

Quote by: HelioPrime The story is (story so who knows )... The angel's are all similar to God, they are just less powerful versions. They also must obey God. When some angels questioned God regarding humans God threw them out of heaven. Of course thats the story anyway. Lucifer and Satan could be the same thing for all we know. Or Satan could be an existing god like entity that God chained in the realm of hell after defeating him.

Ahh.. well, by your accounting of it, they did have a choice. They had a choice of whether or not to confront God.. we all have a choice.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: KayTwee Ahh.. well, by your accounting of it, they did have a choice. They had a choice of whether or not to confront God.. we all have a choice.

Ah I forgot to elaborate.

For whatever reason angels were not able to exercise free will. They had the same potential to choose but could not use it. Some of them revolted against that and lost. That's the paradise lost story version.

[JaneDoe321]

The part of the story that always makes me annoyed is the prologue where god creates *everything* and knows *everything*.

So if god knowingly made creatures that he/she KNEW were going to rebel, or if he created them like some cosmic science experiment, how freakin' sadistic IS it to punish them when they act as programmed.

It's the fundamental point of anger in me whenever I think of religions with this whole "God made everything" concept as the basis.

[Morality Games]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 The part of the story that always makes me annoyed is the prologue where god creates *everything* and knows *everything*. So if god knowingly made creatures that he/she KNEW were going to rebel, or if he created them like some cosmic science experiment, how freakin' sadistic IS it to punish them when they act as programmed. It's the fundamental point of anger in me whenever I think of religions with this whole "God made everything" concept as the basis.

But if you reconsider the relationship between the mind of God and the mind of humans as comparable to the mind of humans and the way computers work, then it makes sense -- in contrast to God, the human mind might be too artifical to warrant serious concern.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 The part of the story that always makes me annoyed is the prologue where god creates *everything* and knows *everything*. So if god knowingly made creatures that he/she KNEW were going to rebel, or if he created them like some cosmic science experiment, how freakin' sadistic IS it to punish them when they act as programmed. It's the fundamental point of anger in me whenever I think of religions with this whole "God made everything" concept as the basis.

Interestingly enough, the bible actually addresses that:

It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory.

I have also had a LOT of hard questions about God, and I continue to have these questions. I am still very new to faith. But I have been surprised to find, that I am finding my answers in the bible.

[Morality Games]

I have also had a LOT of hard questions about God, and I continue to have these questions. I am still very new to faith. But I have been surprised to find, that I am finding my answers in the bible.

Humans can find answers to everything everywhere. In spite of all the drama, it is actually one of the easiest things anyone can do in the world.

Besides, that doesn't really justify why God should be allowed to send to Hell people whom he made to be evil. Unless you think you are one of the lucky ones who escapes the pit of fire and doesn't mind winning rigged games.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Morality Games Humans can find answers to everything everywhere. In spite of all the drama, it is actually one of the easiest things anyone can do in the world. Besides, that doesn't really justify why God should be allowed to send to Hell people whom he made to be evil. Unless you think you are one of the lucky ones who escapes the pit of fire and doesn't mind winning rigged games.

Nope. I will be shocked if I make it into heaven! I don't think I am saved. My faith is very weak. I fear for the future, I have little faith in God or myself to do well.

But I am on a journey, hopefully this will change and I will become stronger, and maybe some day I will be worthy of God.

I have no idea. But I have decided to try my best.

So no, I don't think I'm one of the lucky ones.

[Charlatan]

If God made men to torment them, or for the devil to torment, that shows that He does not care for them. This though is old testament, right? So if you are Jewish then it applies nicely. But in the new testament God turned over a new leaf and sought to forgive men, starting with sending Jesus and letting Him preach the new way, so that all men could enter heaven. The scripture speaking to Pharoah was definitely in the old testament, as there are no Pharoahs in the new testament, so it was the way God was back then, before he chose to show mercy. It also shows that all men are not equal in the eyes of God, but, what if Jesus was a trick? Say that God did not change, and He instead wanted to get people to worship Him anyway, as a merciful God instead of seeing Him as a God who was without feeling. God likes being worshipped, no?

Satanism is the male part of old religion, and, if you believe in evolution, the aggressive part of life. As people learned of religion they took the feminine part of paganism and turned those people into Jews, and then wrote scriptures about God, Venus, who they revered as the All God. So seeing as how all people were religious at the time, and most of them thought that being forgiving was a good thing, they were easily turned to Judaism and then Christianity, but then the God got merciless and they began to say if you didn't fall in line, and burn the pagans, then you were at fault. It is natural to see one thrive over another, and scriptures may have been come to by rituals themselves. Maybe Adam and Eve were the first to come to the new Judaism, and called themselves the first 'people'? It is clear there were people before the old testament, if you believe in evolution, which has evidence supporting it.

So people chose at first to worship Mars, the male part of being, or Venus, the female part of being. There are books out on the pagan christ, so the Jesus theme has been around long before Jesus the Jew.

Satanism depends on the coven. Some covens do decide to offer human sacrifice for example, so that means the people are taking part of the male part of life, the killing side, in the name of their god, or for their god. I remember when a whole Christian church was burnt to the ground with people inside it, sounds like the works of the Mars worshipping sect to me.

So Satanism has been around before Judaism, and therefore Chrisianity, and has been added to and detracted from as each new widespread leader has seen to it. How then can you believe that Satan was cast out of Heaven, simply by reading the verse in Revelations you can see that a few stars fell with 'Mars' to another place, and that is according to one side of the story. Have you ever thought that Mars is more powerful than Venus, as Venus is the mother? Adam and Eve could be Mars and Venus, for the sake of a story, and it got all mixed up from then on. Judaism could be the answer many people agreed on to show their belief in God as the creator, and the scriptures could be, excluding Genesis, true. I say that Genesis is not true because if those things did happen, the flood for example, then the other religions would have vanished, and there would be no other religions.