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Jimmy the Pro · Mar 12, 2008, 12:09 pm

I am a Catholic Christian.
I am from Oklahoma.

These two truths being stated, I consider this little incident to be a personal insult to me when I read the top stories in the morning...

Tulsa World: Oklahoma legislator's anti-gay comments stir hostile reaction

What was even more distrubing was that Kerns recieved a standing ovation from many in the room and many thankful emails telling her to keep sharing the truth.

What truth does she share with us? That homosexuality is a greater threat to this nation than terrorism.

This act, while making me yell WHAT THE F**K? loudly in my house has sent me off on a rant about how inconsiderate many Christians are towards homosexuality and how wrong this is.

People such as Representative Kerns should not be speaking this bullshit in Congress. I am disgusted by her acts and realize how negatively this impacts outsiders views of Oklahoma and impacts an overall view of Christians.

So let me clarify the position I hold about homosexuality in relation to Christianity.

First, if you are a homosexual it is NOT A SIN. I don't care how many quotes some one produces from the Bible to try and "proove" the opposite. Notice that Bible-Thumpers only produce CERTAIN quotes from the Bible based on what suits them but will IGNORE the rest. Many quotes will be read from Leviticus or Deuteronomy about how it is sinful for one man to lay with another YET no one wants to bring up how sinful it is to work on the Sabbath. I believe the penalty is being stoned to death. Inconsistency abounds which is why the Bible is not PROOF against homosexuality's acceptance. Those who advocate it as such advocate a MASSIVE double standard.

Second, God LOVES all persons NO MATTER what sexual orientation. As a Christian I believe that man was created in God's IMAGE and LIKENESS. Persons with homosexual preference were created no differently than those with heterosexual ones. And if Christians claim that God loves all, how can they say that God does not love homosexual persons? Are homosexuals not humans? Or did God mess up? NO! It instead means that we are all TRULY loved by God no matter what sexual preference and those who think otherwise do not TRULY love God because they ignore His Divine purpose. Gays are not the ones without love, haters are the ones who choose not to have love.

Third, as to the ACTS of homosexuals...we as Christians DO NOT KNOW beyond a doubt what goes and does not go for God. We have not personally heard from God that all gays will go to hell but instead many Christians FALSELY ASSUME they will. This is the greatest dissappointment to me as a Christian. When other Christians try to tell the word of God to others when they don't know it. They can claim one thing or another, but who are they to tell us what God does and does not want? They can't. Therefore when reguarding the ACTS of homosexuals condemnation is a stupid idea. It lacks any theological foundation and does not solve any problems, but rather creates more. Christians therefore should keep and open mind on the act instead of just claiming that all will burn in Hell.

It really pisses me off to know that many of my brothers and sisters in faith can be so close minded towards others. If Christianity is the spread of love and fogiveness can some one tell me why the f**k we have a Christian Congress woman denouncing the "evils" of homosexuality?

Let me apologize as a Christian for the remarks my fellow "believer" has made. It is NOT the view all Christians hold. Trust me.

wyoguy · Mar 12, 2008, 01:32 pm

I'm not a Kerns supporter. I am a Christian. I do believe that pursuing a homosexual lifestyle is sinful but preaching against it in church before a congregation is waaayyyy different than a public denunciation.

Just because someone is predisposed toward same-sex attraction does not validate their indulging in it. If I'm genetically predisposed toward alcoholism, it does not give me a Godly green light to be a drunk, however, this applies to me as a Christian temporally and eternally. It applies to everyone eternally. If I truly care about the eternal welfare of my fellow human beings then I should do my level best to warn others of the eternal consequences of their actions and try to convince them of God's realness as well as His wrath upon the unrepentant.

I don't approve of Hollywood trying to portray homosexuality as normal and good just as I don't approve of the liquor companies trying to entice me with seductive women on TV (like I need the encouragement, lol) but that's just the morally bankrupt world we live in. I'm pretty sure that if Kern meets with any success, it will be fairly short-lived like prohibition was.

What I find equally troubling is that a self-professed "Christian" has absolutely no qualms about displaying a vulgar tongue on a public forum supporting an act that God has deemed an abomination. Shame, shame Jimmy.

lindsay7 · Mar 12, 2008, 01:33 pm

Hi Jimmy,

I am a Christian also, and I agree with you. When I am in doubt about what the bible says, I always go with Jesus teachings. And Jesus said, let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

I don't think gays are going to hell. We are judged on what we do, how loving we are to others.

HelioPrime · Mar 12, 2008, 05:29 pm

Quote:

Quote by: lindsay7

I don't think gays are going to hell. We are judged on what we do, how loving we are to others.

Exactly. I like to think of the new covenant concept as overriding all the BS in most of the bible. The golden rule is one everyone can comprehend and agree on.

Compugasm · Mar 12, 2008, 08:26 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Jimmy the Pro

Let me apologize as a Christian for the remarks my fellow "believer" has made. It is NOT the view all Christians hold. Trust me.

Good post. I Compugasm, as Pope of San Diego, accept your apology.

Court463 · Mar 12, 2008, 08:39 pm

What does that mean: He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone, I don't get it.

And I agree with Jimmy, The only part i don't understand is why people feel the need to put homosexuals down, because how does it affect chrisitans if people are gay, the chrisitans are still going to heavan and the homosexuals are going to hell so why do they care. To me it just seems like they are putting their nose in other peoples buisness.

Oh and the Bible is really no way to justify anything, it was written in 300 a.d. by a group of men in a dark room trying to decide the best way to indoctrinate the world. Not that I'm saying there is no jesus, i just think the bible is a load.

Lullaby Chainer · Mar 12, 2008, 09:18 pm

People that remarry are destined for Hell in the Bible.. it's just as much as a sin as homosexuality.

Yet remarried couples are gladly welcomed into churches.

Why?

lindsay7 · Mar 12, 2008, 09:26 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Court463

What does that mean: He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone, I don't get it.

Perhaps reading it in context will explain it better...

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

another day · Mar 12, 2008, 10:20 pm

Well you know what, I'm sorry but you can't act surprised. This is what your religion leads to for the majority of it's believers. It makes them think they are better then everyone else and can therefore judge and condemn others. Jesus may have said not to do so, but there's plenty of support in the bible for the other side too. The problem is your book is so contradictory that anyone can use it to justify any evil.

JaneDoe321 · Mar 12, 2008, 10:28 pm

Maybe gays should request reparations from the Vatican.

(that was tongue in cheek!!!!!!!!!!)

HelioPrime · Mar 12, 2008, 10:47 pm

OUR book?

As in WE are all supporting hate?

Plenty of hate and terror can come from the hearts and minds of atheists too. YOUR kind are not free from dirty hands. According to Matthew Jesus said the second most important law is to love our neighbor as yourself. Clearly the bible isn't just all hatred. Hatred comes from people bending words to suit their personal bigotry.

JaneDoe321 · Mar 12, 2008, 11:06 pm

Whoa.... I read...

Quote:

The problem is your book is so contradictory that anyone can use it to justify any evil.

And that's pretty fair. Esp. The Holy Bible as used in its myriad forms in America, which has been translated, edited and retranslated so many times I'm surprised there's anything left, and which *does* have pretty much a quote of verse to support or condemn *anything* if you look and play semantics hard enough.

That by no means that Christianity is alone in having its holy texts misused. The only loophole atheists really have is that there's no Atheist High Command issuing orders AS ATHEISTS. The standard "Look at Stalin or Mao" arguments don't really work because atheism was only part of their puzzle, not the be all end all justification of the atrocities committed.

And again, that's not to say atheists don't so bad stuff. Every group's got its bad guys. But I really didn't read that into the above comment. (I could be wrong, obviously, and perhaps have missed some subtle cue or secret wink, I guess...)

lindsay7 · Mar 12, 2008, 11:07 pm

Quote:

Quote by: another day

Well you know what, I'm sorry but you can't act surprised. This is what your religion leads to for the majority of it's believers. It makes them think they are better then everyone else and can therefore judge and condemn others. Jesus may have said not to do so, but there's plenty of support in the bible for the other side too. The problem is your book is so contradictory that anyone can use it to justify any evil.

I doubt it's the majority. More likely it's the minority, they are just very vocal about it.

When it comes to the bible, I go with what Jesus said, as he came after Moses law, and he is the Son of God. You are right though, it is confusing, there's much about it I don't understand either. But Jesus teachings make sense to me, and I do believe they are the most important part of the bible.

Court463 · Mar 13, 2008, 12:23 am

The only difficult part about that is how do you distinguish the made up crap from the real Jesus teachings.

I suppose the stuff that actully makes sense and the crap.

You guys should see this add on the bottom of my page, it says:
Meet Christian Singles in Your City!
Lmao

JaneDoe321 · Mar 13, 2008, 12:23 am

Mine say "MenInLove.com"

How's that for irony.

Halofan48 · Mar 13, 2008, 12:25 am

ya, theres one for muslims too. A lot of stuff is done there. Anyway, this is off topic so i'll stop.

From what I know of the teachings of Jesus, is that he preached to love your fellow man. So by hating Homosexuals and saying that god hates them, aren't they violating the teachings of Jesus?

Court463 · Mar 13, 2008, 12:27 am

Thats exactly where everything is so contradictory, Jesus preached about love, peace, and all that jazz. And then other parts of the bible tell about ungodly life styles and how unbeilivers will be punished ect. ect.

JaneDoe321 · Mar 13, 2008, 12:39 am

It sure would be handy is we could warp the space-time continuum and check for Jesus, and if he was really there, borrow him for a few hours to validate all the stuff that has been attributed to him.

Give the contradictions, I don't think *all* those were actually "his" precepts on various topics.

lindsay7 · Mar 13, 2008, 12:48 am

I think the confusion is caused by the commandments Moses was given. Perhaps the commandments given to Moses (in regard to people being put to death for a list of sins) were for that time and those people only? I don't know.

I don't think we should let it trip us up though, because Jesus came after, and his teachings are so clear.

Technosoul · Mar 13, 2008, 12:54 am

I agree that we should not stereotype all Chistians of sharing the views of one preson. Surely not all Christians would agree with the new "deadly sins" proposed by the Pope. Not all Chirstians would share the view of Pat Robinson, or the Watchtower, and so forth.

And gays who are also Christians absolutly would not agree with that person who has a political agenda.

Mar 12, 2008, 12:09 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Jimmy the Pro Ready to Rok Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,930	Homosexuality in the View of a Christian I am a Catholic Christian. I am from Oklahoma. These two truths being stated, I consider this little incident to be a personal insult to me when I read the top stories in the morning... Tulsa World: Oklahoma legislator's anti-gay comments stir hostile reaction What was even more distrubing was that Kerns recieved a standing ovation from many in the room and many thankful emails telling her to keep sharing the truth. What truth does she share with us? That homosexuality is a greater threat to this nation than terrorism. This act, while making me yell WHAT THE FK? loudly in my house has sent me off on a rant about how inconsiderate many Christians are towards homosexuality and how wrong this is. People such as Representative Kerns should not be speaking this bullshit in Congress. I am disgusted by her acts and realize how negatively this impacts outsiders views of Oklahoma and impacts an overall view of Christians. So let me clarify the position I hold about homosexuality in relation to Christianity. First, if you are a homosexual it is NOT A SIN. I don't care how many quotes some one produces from the Bible to try and "proove" the opposite. Notice that Bible-Thumpers only produce CERTAIN quotes from the Bible based on what suits them but will IGNORE the rest. Many quotes will be read from Leviticus or Deuteronomy about how it is sinful for one man to lay with another YET no one wants to bring up how sinful it is to work on the Sabbath. I believe the penalty is being stoned to death. Inconsistency abounds which is why the Bible is not PROOF against homosexuality's acceptance. Those who advocate it as such advocate a MASSIVE double standard. Second, God LOVES all persons NO MATTER what sexual orientation. As a Christian I believe that man was created in God's IMAGE and LIKENESS. Persons with homosexual preference were created no differently than those with heterosexual ones. And if Christians claim that God loves all, how can they say that God does not love homosexual persons? Are homosexuals not humans? Or did God mess up? NO! It instead means that we are all TRULY loved by God no matter what sexual preference and those who think otherwise do not TRULY love God because they ignore His Divine purpose. Gays are not the ones without love, haters are the ones who choose not to have love. Third, as to the ACTS of homosexuals...we as Christians DO NOT KNOW beyond a doubt what goes and does not go for God. We have not personally heard from God that all gays will go to hell but instead many Christians FALSELY ASSUME they will. This is the greatest dissappointment to me as a Christian. When other Christians try to tell the word of God to others when they don't know it. They can claim one thing or another, but who are they to tell us what God does and does not want? They can't. Therefore when reguarding the ACTS of homosexuals condemnation is a stupid idea. It lacks any theological foundation and does not solve any problems, but rather creates more. Christians therefore should keep and open mind on the act instead of just claiming that all will burn in Hell. It really pisses me off to know that many of my brothers and sisters in faith can be so close minded towards others. If Christianity is the spread of love and fogiveness can some one tell me why the fk we have a Christian Congress woman denouncing the "evils" of homosexuality? Let me apologize as a Christian for the remarks my fellow "believer" has made. It is NOT the view all Christians hold. Trust me. "I believe Christianity as I believe the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else." -C.S. Lewis- Last edited by Matt W; Mar 12, 2008 at 05:46 pm.

Mar 12, 2008, 01:32 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
wyoguy Desert Sand Posts: 159	I'm not a Kerns supporter. I am a Christian. I do believe that pursuing a homosexual lifestyle is sinful but preaching against it in church before a congregation is waaayyyy different than a public denunciation. Just because someone is predisposed toward same-sex attraction does not validate their indulging in it. If I'm genetically predisposed toward alcoholism, it does not give me a Godly green light to be a drunk, however, this applies to me as a Christian temporally and eternally. It applies to everyone eternally. If I truly care about the eternal welfare of my fellow human beings then I should do my level best to warn others of the eternal consequences of their actions and try to convince them of God's realness as well as His wrath upon the unrepentant. I don't approve of Hollywood trying to portray homosexuality as normal and good just as I don't approve of the liquor companies trying to entice me with seductive women on TV (like I need the encouragement, lol) but that's just the morally bankrupt world we live in. I'm pretty sure that if Kern meets with any success, it will be fairly short-lived like prohibition was. What I find equally troubling is that a self-professed "Christian" has absolutely no qualms about displaying a vulgar tongue on a public forum supporting an act that God has deemed an abomination. Shame, shame Jimmy. Note to physician: Irritation caused by wyoguy can be relieved by a liberal application of alcohol. http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html

Mar 12, 2008, 09:18 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer Digital Witchcraft Posts: 3,020	People that remarry are destined for Hell in the Bible.. it's just as much as a sin as homosexuality. Yet remarried couples are gladly welcomed into churches. Why? *Powerful.. magical.. e-e-e-eevil..*

Mar 12, 2008, 10:20 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
another day slipping sand Posts: 1,802	Well you know what, I'm sorry but you can't act surprised. This is what your religion leads to for the majority of it's believers. It makes them think they are better then everyone else and can therefore judge and condemn others. Jesus may have said not to do so, but there's plenty of support in the bible for the other side too. The problem is your book is so contradictory that anyone can use it to justify any evil. What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason! The paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me; no, nor woman neither..

Mar 12, 2008, 10:47 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
HelioPrime Hucking Fuskies Location: Conn Posts: 2,284	OUR book? As in WE are all supporting hate? Plenty of hate and terror can come from the hearts and minds of atheists too. YOUR kind are not free from dirty hands. According to Matthew Jesus said the second most important law is to love our neighbor as yourself. Clearly the bible isn't just all hatred. Hatred comes from people bending words to suit their personal bigotry. What do you say to an atheist who sneezes? Yourdeadthatsit! - Dane Cook

Mar 12, 2008, 01:33 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
lindsay7 Igneous Magma Posts: 207	Hi Jimmy, I am a Christian also, and I agree with you. When I am in doubt about what the bible says, I always go with Jesus teachings. And Jesus said, let him who is without sin cast the first stone. I don't think gays are going to hell. We are judged on what we do, how loving we are to others.

Mar 12, 2008, 08:39 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Court463 Molten Ash Posts: 101	What does that mean: He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone, I don't get it. And I agree with Jimmy, The only part i don't understand is why people feel the need to put homosexuals down, because how does it affect chrisitans if people are gay, the chrisitans are still going to heavan and the homosexuals are going to hell so why do they care. To me it just seems like they are putting their nose in other peoples buisness. Oh and the Bible is really no way to justify anything, it was written in 300 a.d. by a group of men in a dark room trying to decide the best way to indoctrinate the world. Not that I'm saying there is no jesus, i just think the bible is a load.

Mar 12, 2008, 10:28 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
JaneDoe321 Igneous Magma Posts: 316	Maybe gays should request reparations from the Vatican. (that was tongue in cheek!!!!!!!!!!)

Mar 13, 2008, 12:23 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Court463 Molten Ash Posts: 101	The only difficult part about that is how do you distinguish the made up crap from the real Jesus teachings. I suppose the stuff that actully makes sense and the crap. You guys should see this add on the bottom of my page, it says: Meet Christian Singles in Your City! Lmao

Mar 13, 2008, 12:23 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
JaneDoe321 Igneous Magma Posts: 316	Mine say "MenInLove.com" How's that for irony.

Mar 13, 2008, 12:25 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
Halofan48 Seeking the Unknown Location: Southern California Posts: 1,263	ya, theres one for muslims too. A lot of stuff is done there. Anyway, this is off topic so i'll stop. From what I know of the teachings of Jesus, is that he preached to love your fellow man. So by hating Homosexuals and saying that god hates them, aren't they violating the teachings of Jesus? Knowledge is power, use it well. Don't fear the unknown, seek to understand it

Mar 13, 2008, 12:27 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
Court463 Molten Ash Posts: 101	Thats exactly where everything is so contradictory, Jesus preached about love, peace, and all that jazz. And then other parts of the bible tell about ungodly life styles and how unbeilivers will be punished ect. ect.

Mar 13, 2008, 12:39 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
JaneDoe321 Igneous Magma Posts: 316	It sure would be handy is we could warp the space-time continuum and check for Jesus, and if he was really there, borrow him for a few hours to validate all the stuff that has been attributed to him. Give the contradictions, I don't think all those were actually "his" precepts on various topics.

Mar 13, 2008, 12:48 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
lindsay7 Igneous Magma Posts: 207	I think the confusion is caused by the commandments Moses was given. Perhaps the commandments given to Moses (in regard to people being put to death for a list of sins) were for that time and those people only? I don't know. I don't think we should let it trip us up though, because Jesus came after, and his teachings are so clear.

Mar 13, 2008, 12:54 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	I agree that we should not stereotype all Chistians of sharing the views of one preson. Surely not all Christians would agree with the new "deadly sins" proposed by the Pope. Not all Chirstians would share the view of Pat Robinson, or the Watchtower, and so forth. And gays who are also Christians absolutly would not agree with that person who has a political agenda.